Help with rough running / codes 21 33
10-16-2007, 06:20 AM
#1
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Help with rough running / codes 21 33
I got a '93 Maxima about 9 months ago for free. There of course was a reason that it was free, and I've had plenty of issues with it. A couple of days ago, it started idling very rough, then a few days later I developed a misfire. The misfire feels like it is only in one cylinder, and I will go through the ignition today, as I am sure that has been neglected for a long time, and may well be the soure of my problems.
Before heading to the parts store, I checked the computer for codes, and got two. The first code was 21. I looked that up, and the description was "Ignition signal in primary circuit not being entered to ECU during cranking or tuning." While I pretty much understand what that means, I have no clue what would cause it, or where to start looking.
The second cod was 33, which is EGR Malfunction. That brings me to another point. Last night, when I was looking things over, I noticed that there is a vacuum fitting on the passengers side rear corner of the intake plenum (It's a GXE automatic) which has no cap or hose on it. Does anyone know what is supposed to be attached to this fitting? Perhaps it is supposed to go to the EGR valve.
Any info that anyone can toss my way will be greatly appreciated.
Before heading to the parts store, I checked the computer for codes, and got two. The first code was 21. I looked that up, and the description was "Ignition signal in primary circuit not being entered to ECU during cranking or tuning." While I pretty much understand what that means, I have no clue what would cause it, or where to start looking.
The second cod was 33, which is EGR Malfunction. That brings me to another point. Last night, when I was looking things over, I noticed that there is a vacuum fitting on the passengers side rear corner of the intake plenum (It's a GXE automatic) which has no cap or hose on it. Does anyone know what is supposed to be attached to this fitting? Perhaps it is supposed to go to the EGR valve.
Any info that anyone can toss my way will be greatly appreciated.
10-16-2007, 07:13 AM
#3
I noticed that there is a vacuum fitting on the passengers side rear corner of the intake plenum (It's a GXE automatic) which has no cap or hose on it. Does anyone know what is supposed to be attached to this fitting? Perhaps it is supposed to go to the EGR valve.
Any info that anyone can toss my way will be greatly appreciated.
Any info that anyone can toss my way will be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by redwood_usa; 10-16-2007 at 07:16 AM.
10-16-2007, 07:48 AM
#4
These are the codes you have and the potential causes,since you seem to have a intake hose missing,this may be the cause of your code 33.
Location of said hose and it's routing,just follow the little red road.
The code 21 could be caused by the power transistor unit or it's connector/wiring harness..Check this connector for loose/bad connections and/or broken wires,if it appears ok,then you may need to replace this unit.
Also,you may need to do a complete tune up if you haven't done so already,bad plugs/plug wires and/or distributor cap will also cause rough idle/and or a stumbling issues.
10-16-2007, 10:32 AM
#5
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Well first off let me say thanks. You guys are quick, and thorough, and there is lots of good info here. I looked around quickly, before reading these replies, and didn't see any obviously disconnected vacuum hoses, so for the time being I slapped a vacuum cap over the fitting on the manifold. To be honest, I have no idea how long that fitting has been like that. I've owned the car for about 8 months, and would guess it was probably that way when I bought it.
A quick inspection of the distributor cap revealed a crack on the inside of the cap adjacent to the number 1 terminal, and I thought that was likely my problem. I bought a new cap and rotor, wires, and a set of plugs. The wires were actually in very good shape, I think they were probably replaced shortly before I got the car.
Just to be safe, I replaced them with the new wires, put in the new cap and rotor, and put in a set of plugs. The plugs looked pretty good, though they were a bit lighter than they should have been, but that is likely the result of the vacuum leak. The number 4 plug however, was dark. Not oily, just dark. It looked almost like fuel fouling, but didn't smell like fuel.
My results were mixed though. The idle is much more stable now, whereas it was varying wildly before, coming very close to stalling frequently. Now it is holding right around 1000 rpm pretty steadily. I do still feel, and hear a rhythmic misfire. It still sounds like it is one cylinder. It isn't as pronounced as it was before. Before it really shook the car, now it just doesn't feel as smooth as it should, and isn't making the power that it did just yesterday.
With the ignition pretty much ruled out as the culprit of the misfire, I am starting to wonder if I might have a problem with the injector on the #4 cylinder.
A quick inspection of the distributor cap revealed a crack on the inside of the cap adjacent to the number 1 terminal, and I thought that was likely my problem. I bought a new cap and rotor, wires, and a set of plugs. The wires were actually in very good shape, I think they were probably replaced shortly before I got the car.
Just to be safe, I replaced them with the new wires, put in the new cap and rotor, and put in a set of plugs. The plugs looked pretty good, though they were a bit lighter than they should have been, but that is likely the result of the vacuum leak. The number 4 plug however, was dark. Not oily, just dark. It looked almost like fuel fouling, but didn't smell like fuel.
My results were mixed though. The idle is much more stable now, whereas it was varying wildly before, coming very close to stalling frequently. Now it is holding right around 1000 rpm pretty steadily. I do still feel, and hear a rhythmic misfire. It still sounds like it is one cylinder. It isn't as pronounced as it was before. Before it really shook the car, now it just doesn't feel as smooth as it should, and isn't making the power that it did just yesterday.
With the ignition pretty much ruled out as the culprit of the misfire, I am starting to wonder if I might have a problem with the injector on the #4 cylinder.
10-16-2007, 12:21 PM
#7
Yeah,it does sound like you mighty have a bad injector,to confirm,pull the #4 plug wire from the spark plug while the engine is at idle,if the stumbling doesn't get worse,then you have a bad injector.
10-16-2007, 12:31 PM
#8
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Thanks so much for the pictures MyGreenMax94. It only took me a couple of seconds looking to locate the vacuum line you so nicely highlighted for me, and sure enough, the bit of rubber hose at the valve cover end had split, and fallen off the connector. A few more seconds had my temporary vacuum cap removed, and a new piece of vacuum hose connected. Between that, and the new parts in the ignition system, the idle no longer fluctuates wildly. Next step is to try your suggestion for pulling the #4 wire, to verify if I do have a bad injector.
Last edited by Tquick; 10-16-2007 at 12:50 PM.
10-16-2007, 03:11 PM
#11
Thanks so much for the pictures MyGreenMax94. It only took me a couple of seconds looking to locate the vacuum line you so nicely highlighted for me, and sure enough, the bit of rubber hose at the valve cover end had split, and fallen off the connector. A few more seconds had my temporary vacuum cap removed, and a new piece of vacuum hose connected. Between that, and the new parts in the ignition system, the idle no longer fluctuates wildly. Next step is to try your suggestion for pulling the #4 wire, to verify if I do have a bad injector.
10-16-2007, 07:10 PM
#12
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If I wasn't terribly clear about this, when I said that the idle is smooth, what I meant is that the idle speed isn't fluctuating any more. Before the work on the ignition, and fixing the vacuum leak, my idle would jump around between say 400 and 1000 RPM's, sometimes racing a bit, and other times nearly stalling. When I replaced cap / rotor / plugs / wires, and fixed the vacuum leak, the idle stabilized just under 1000 RPM's, so that part of the problem is indeed fixed.
There is still a misfire. I can hear it, and feel it, and the engine is definitely down on power as a result of it. When I changed the plugs, they all looked like they were firing normally, but running a bit hot, except the number 4 plug. I figure that the vacuum leak would have caused the engine to run a bit lean, which would explain the plugs looking like they were running a bit hot. The #4 plug was dark, not carbon / oil fouled, it looked like fuel fouling, although it didn't smell like gas. Since my misfire is very obviously one cylinder, just by how rhythmic it is, I am guessing that the plug that looked wet (#4) probably belongs to the cylinder that is misfiring. Perhaps the injector is dumping too much fuel in that cylinder, and it isn't able to fire, or can't burn it completely.
It is very possible that there IS a problem with the O2. Back in the spring, I had the car in the shop because it shut down one night when I was driving it, and I couldn't start it back up, no crank. I had to have it towed in. It turned out that the aftermarket alarm system had failed, and wasn't allowing the car to start. While the mechanic was removing the alarm system, he noticed that the wiring to the O2 sensor was messed up, so he patched it together. A couple of months later, I was under the car replacing the Y pipe, and noticed that the repair job on the O2 wiring had fallen apart. There was no plug between the O2 sensor, and the car's wiring, the wires had just been twisted and taped, and two of them had come apart. The problem was that the three wires coming from the 02 sensor didn't color match with the three coming from the car's harness. I pretty much had to guess at which two sets of wires went together. It is fully possible that I got it wrong, OR that my quick repair failed. I figured that I would have to revisit that work at a later point.
In addition, the O2 sensor certainly looked like it had more than it's fair share of mileage on it, so it might well need to be replaced too. I know that I have to deal with that, and will have to check into the wiring harness at the power transisitor. It looks as if it could be a problem the way the wires are bent, so I will have to check them for continuity to make sure none of them are broken.
All of that stuff aside, the first thing I need to deal with is the misfire. Once that is taken care of, then I can deal with the O2 sensor, and the code 21.
Thank you all once again for all the great information, and advice. I wouldn't have known where to start with the code 21, and I probably could have stared at that engine all day and never spotted that vacuum hose without having that picture to look at! I'm confident that with the help of the forum members here, I'll have this car running as good as new in no time.
There is still a misfire. I can hear it, and feel it, and the engine is definitely down on power as a result of it. When I changed the plugs, they all looked like they were firing normally, but running a bit hot, except the number 4 plug. I figure that the vacuum leak would have caused the engine to run a bit lean, which would explain the plugs looking like they were running a bit hot. The #4 plug was dark, not carbon / oil fouled, it looked like fuel fouling, although it didn't smell like gas. Since my misfire is very obviously one cylinder, just by how rhythmic it is, I am guessing that the plug that looked wet (#4) probably belongs to the cylinder that is misfiring. Perhaps the injector is dumping too much fuel in that cylinder, and it isn't able to fire, or can't burn it completely.
It is very possible that there IS a problem with the O2. Back in the spring, I had the car in the shop because it shut down one night when I was driving it, and I couldn't start it back up, no crank. I had to have it towed in. It turned out that the aftermarket alarm system had failed, and wasn't allowing the car to start. While the mechanic was removing the alarm system, he noticed that the wiring to the O2 sensor was messed up, so he patched it together. A couple of months later, I was under the car replacing the Y pipe, and noticed that the repair job on the O2 wiring had fallen apart. There was no plug between the O2 sensor, and the car's wiring, the wires had just been twisted and taped, and two of them had come apart. The problem was that the three wires coming from the 02 sensor didn't color match with the three coming from the car's harness. I pretty much had to guess at which two sets of wires went together. It is fully possible that I got it wrong, OR that my quick repair failed. I figured that I would have to revisit that work at a later point.
In addition, the O2 sensor certainly looked like it had more than it's fair share of mileage on it, so it might well need to be replaced too. I know that I have to deal with that, and will have to check into the wiring harness at the power transisitor. It looks as if it could be a problem the way the wires are bent, so I will have to check them for continuity to make sure none of them are broken.
All of that stuff aside, the first thing I need to deal with is the misfire. Once that is taken care of, then I can deal with the O2 sensor, and the code 21.
Thank you all once again for all the great information, and advice. I wouldn't have known where to start with the code 21, and I probably could have stared at that engine all day and never spotted that vacuum hose without having that picture to look at! I'm confident that with the help of the forum members here, I'll have this car running as good as new in no time.
10-17-2007, 03:06 AM
#13
Start with fixing your O2 wiring first. Go to a junk yard and pull off the required wire and connector. Its the cheapest and easiest and could be causing all your other problems. then clear your codes make sure there is no more 33. Also, once you have done that, clean out your egr valve/tube and seafoam your engine. Then and only then think about doing anything with an injector as thats the most expensive and time consuming compared to the above which is all labor and no cash.
Last edited by redwood_usa; 10-17-2007 at 03:09 AM.
10-17-2007, 06:07 AM
#14
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Jimbo, good advice. The O2 sensor does need to be dealt with, and since the car is going to be out of service for a while anyway, now is the time to take care of that before the bad weather gets here.
I did pull the #4 wire off, and much as I expected, the car didn't run any worse with the wire removed than it did with it in place. Still the same very rhythmic one cylinder misfire, likely pointing to a problem with the injector on the #4 cylinder. with 200,000 miles on the engine, this isn't a big surprise.
I guess it is time to start making some phone calls to see if there is still a junkyard open anywhere around me. Over the course of the last few years, all of the junkyards I used to frequent have closed, so that might cause me a bit of trouble.
I did pull the #4 wire off, and much as I expected, the car didn't run any worse with the wire removed than it did with it in place. Still the same very rhythmic one cylinder misfire, likely pointing to a problem with the injector on the #4 cylinder. with 200,000 miles on the engine, this isn't a big surprise.
I guess it is time to start making some phone calls to see if there is still a junkyard open anywhere around me. Over the course of the last few years, all of the junkyards I used to frequent have closed, so that might cause me a bit of trouble.
10-17-2007, 07:37 PM
#16
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...0sensor%20fix/
dunno if it's the greatest thing in the world but white is ground on my sensor
dunno if it's the greatest thing in the world but white is ground on my sensor
10-17-2007, 10:54 PM
#17
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Today hanging out with friends. I wanted to show my friend the Hids and i lifted my hood for some reason i checked the hose that u have posted as a picture. And its cracked right and the beginning. Well my idle is elil ruff. So when i took it out idle went down and when i put my finger there the idle was steady and good. But when i went with the hose it only went up to the mid part so it seems like it isnt conected to anything and is just sucking air in. Can you please show me where it ends and starts. Need this by tommorow i will need to get a hose. Just trying to make sure no one messed with it because i never looked in to it. Thanks picture would be greatly appreciated.
P.S.
Friend of mine said out a tiny hose and block it from another side so it wouldnt suck air in. Now i am not sure if thats how its suppose to be cause at the other end which stops is a lil black coneecter that is still sucking air in but not as much..
P.S.
Friend of mine said out a tiny hose and block it from another side so it wouldnt suck air in. Now i am not sure if thats how its suppose to be cause at the other end which stops is a lil black coneecter that is still sucking air in but not as much..
10-18-2007, 03:22 AM
#18
Today hanging out with friends. I wanted to show my friend the Hids and i lifted my hood for some reason i checked the hose that u have posted as a picture. And its cracked right and the beginning. Well my idle is elil ruff. So when i took it out idle went down and when i put my finger there the idle was steady and good. But when i went with the hose it only went up to the mid part so it seems like it isnt conected to anything and is just sucking air in. Can you please show me where it ends and starts. Need this by tommorow i will need to get a hose. Just trying to make sure no one messed with it because i never looked in to it. Thanks picture would be greatly appreciated.
P.S.
Friend of mine said out a tiny hose and block it from another side so it wouldnt suck air in. Now i am not sure if thats how its suppose to be cause at the other end which stops is a lil black coneecter that is still sucking air in but not as much..
P.S.
Friend of mine said out a tiny hose and block it from another side so it wouldnt suck air in. Now i am not sure if thats how its suppose to be cause at the other end which stops is a lil black coneecter that is still sucking air in but not as much..
Last edited by Greeny; 10-18-2007 at 03:27 AM.
10-18-2007, 10:39 AM
#19
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It just dawned on me today that after the mechanic fixed the wiring to the O2 sensor, and then I fixed it again while doing the exhaust work, I have not had the battery disconnected. That means that it is possible that the code which is stored in the computer for the O2 is old, so my next move is to disconnect the battery to reset the computer, then run the car for a bit, and recheck for codes to see if the O2 is still valid.
One step at a time.
capedcadaver, it is quite helpful to know that the white wire is the ground. As hard as it is to believe, there are only 3 junkyards that I can find within 50 miles of here, and none of them have a Maxima that I can grab the plug for the O2 sensor off. I know I can likely track one down of the internet, but I'd like to verify if I have a problem with the actual sensor, or if it is just screwed up wiring now.
One step at a time.
capedcadaver, it is quite helpful to know that the white wire is the ground. As hard as it is to believe, there are only 3 junkyards that I can find within 50 miles of here, and none of them have a Maxima that I can grab the plug for the O2 sensor off. I know I can likely track one down of the internet, but I'd like to verify if I have a problem with the actual sensor, or if it is just screwed up wiring now.
10-18-2007, 04:39 PM
#21
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Posts: 98
Thanks a lot MyGreenMax94
But i dont think i have the thing where the thing where the 16# and the 14#is. ITS WEIRD. What is it for where is it located i have a 93 nissan maxima GXE automatic.....i been driving like this for almost a year that i have owned it.weird>....
But i dont think i have the thing where the thing where the 16# and the 14#is. ITS WEIRD. What is it for where is it located i have a 93 nissan maxima GXE automatic.....i been driving like this for almost a year that i have owned it.weird>....
10-18-2007, 04:42 PM
#22
Thanks a lot MyGreenMax94
But i dont think i have the thing where the thing where the 16# and the 14#is. ITS WEIRD. What is it for where is it located i have a 93 nissan maxima GXE automatic.....i been driving like this for almost a year that i have owned it.weird>....
But i dont think i have the thing where the thing where the 16# and the 14#is. ITS WEIRD. What is it for where is it located i have a 93 nissan maxima GXE automatic.....i been driving like this for almost a year that i have owned it.weird>....
)
10-18-2007, 04:51 PM
#23
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Posts: 98
MyGreenMax94
A picture of it would be Great i am gonna go outside in 5 min and take a look. What the whole thing for?
What got damaged hurt for me having it hanging like that sucking in dirty air?
What could of have happend to that piece?
Sry i am so confused. I mean my idle is pretty ruff my gas mileage SUCKS changed all my 6 injectors 1 new and 5 rebuilt did a full tune up lately...
A picture of it would be Great i am gonna go outside in 5 min and take a look. What the whole thing for?
What got damaged hurt for me having it hanging like that sucking in dirty air?
What could of have happend to that piece?
Sry i am so confused. I mean my idle is pretty ruff my gas mileage SUCKS changed all my 6 injectors 1 new and 5 rebuilt did a full tune up lately...
10-18-2007, 04:57 PM
#24
Originally Posted by whitemax89
MyGreenMax94
A picture of it would be Great i am gonna go outside in 5 min and take a look.
A picture of it would be Great i am gonna go outside in 5 min and take a look.
The yellow arrows point to the heater valve
What the whole thing for?
What got damaged hurt for me having it hanging like that sucking in dirty air?
What could of have happend to that piece?
Sry i am so confused. I mean my idle is pretty ruff my gas mileage SUCKS changed all my 6 injectors 1 new and 5 rebuilt did a full tune up lately...
What got damaged hurt for me having it hanging like that sucking in dirty air?
What could of have happend to that piece?
Sry i am so confused. I mean my idle is pretty ruff my gas mileage SUCKS changed all my 6 injectors 1 new and 5 rebuilt did a full tune up lately...
10-19-2007, 10:47 AM
#26
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Holy crap, I just checked my 93 GXE and noticed that my hose is disconnected too. But it seems that the hose extending from my engine is too short (Part #15 by the looks of it in the diagram). Can I jury rig some sort of extension or do I need that L-looking piece extruding from part #14 ? I put my finger on the end of part #15 when the engine was on and it was sucking air so I'm definetely losing vacuum from my fubared setup.
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