Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I assume the VE has a lower pressure pump than the VG? Is that why the cost is so much different?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

The other way around,the ve injectors have a higher flow rate,hence the need for a higher pressure pump.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Well, that is what i would have guessed as the VE is considered more of a high performance engine, but why is the pump so much cheaper for the VE?

I am sure it isn't due to the fact that there are more VG's out there.

Mack531

Well, I'm guessing, but having worked in/around the aerospace industry for almost thirty years, I can tell you that around 1990 or so there were a lot of materials formerly used by the military that started making their way into the automotive industry. As one example, Titanium has been around a long time, but was something you'd see in high-end Porsche's and Formula 1 cars for the most part. Now people are making custom headers and twin turbo exhaust systems out of the stuff with fair amount of regularity. My thoughts are, they found a cheaper, stronger way to build a fuel pump for higher pressure. Maybe a combination of improved materials science and design. One pump may look like a couple of rubber gears inside, pumping the fuel like an oil pump does. The high pressure version might look like a small roots type blower inside or the jet drive on a boat. Fewer parts, more efficient, cheaper to build, higher pressure.
BTW, isn't there an access port in the spare tire well that'll save him dropping the gas tank to change out the pump?

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

In most Japanese cars you almost never have to drop the tank unlike those expensive and time consuming Blazers, Astro vans, Suburbans, C/K1500+ and all those other darn Chevy's.

You just simply remove the bottom part of the rear seat by prying outward from underneath where passengers normally sit. Once seat is removed, just PB blast the rusty bolts and go real easy on em, Im referring to the either 8mm or 10mm ones under the main cover.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

According to the FSM, if I looked at it correctly, the VG pump operates at 36psi and the VE is at 36.3psi. That doesn't sound like a huge difference, but I guess a difference is a difference.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

John is absolutely correct! Although I tried to remove mine right after the VG went South to get the full tank of gas out. I never succeeded getting the pump out like this, although I did get the gas out.

Are there any tricks to removing the pump???

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

---> http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=327678

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Ok, I see where I messed up....I didn't remove the fuel lines first.

I did notice one difference between the one you were removing and mine though. Looks like the pump on yours has one electrical connector and mine has two. What's up with that???

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

90 se difference?


Can you snap a pic for us?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Welp...after some testing on my ve(unplugged the coil relay)..It's seems that you should have swapped the entire electrical harness over from your donor car..yup...the whole thing..

btw...just for reference,this is the relay box you are talking about,right?



There might be a way to rig up the coils to fire without the entire engine bay harness being swapped over,but i am not exactly sure how it could be done.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

you guys are looking at fuel pressure (PSI) only, flow (GPH) also needs to be taken into account as well.
VE GPH: 50 Max PSI 85-90
VG GPH: 45-55 Max PSI 60-80

as you can see they do have different characteristics, but as to how interchangeable they are
Based on the above numbers a VG pump should be able to at least start and idle a VE, and probably work fine all the way up to about 3k.
but that is just my .02

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I agree brian,the vg pump should be able to start and run the car without much issues,but some fuel starvation probably would occur at wot(wide open throttle)

Personally,i believe his starting problem is related to the coils not getting fire.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, I am at work right now and do not get to check on here often.

I will take a pic this evening of the two connectors I was referring to on the fuel pump when I get home this evening.



Yes, that is the relay box I am referring to. I really don't want to rig anything up. I will just pull the rest of the harness and install it in mine. No big deal. LOL



Brian: OK, I will also pull the fuel pump. Again, no big deal as I do have the donor car. THANK GOD!!! LOL

Wayne: I believe you are correct. I may be getting spark, but I may not be getting the right spark....if that makes sense....as I do not have the wiring harness correct. This will probably make my fans run all the time as the ECU thinks it the motor has a serious error and is trying to go into FAILSAFE MODE or what the FSM called it. Anywho, I probably will not get to actually work on the car until this weekend, but I think you guys have got me in the right direction.




I will post the requested pic tonight.

Mack531

Took the words right outta my mouth! I think the spark coil circuit has to be included, but it also occurred to me that both engines have a pressure regulator valve downstream of the injector rails, right? If the VE engine is only getting the kind of pressure provided by a VG pump, will this throw off the pressurize/depressurize activation points of the Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve, and thus not allow sufficient injector pressure to operate?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Once again,possible,but the vg/ve pumps are so close in pressure specs,i honestly doubt this would have much if any effect in the scheme of things concerning the problems with the op's(original poster) issue with his no start issue.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

if you can, next time you can start your car, have the someone listen to the pump when you turn the key to the "on" position. you (or the other person) should be able to hear it whine as if its working. that can rule out lack of power to the pump.
also double check for spark as suggested before.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

The fuel pump is definitely working. I.E., you can hear it whine.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I got home tonight and went outside and took some pics just for Hectic. LOL JK

Anyway, I am running Vista on my computer and the Microsoft image resizer does not work with Vitsa. Just another reason to hate 'The Man' LOL

Does anyone know of a resizer that will work for me?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

you could use this--> http://blogs.vertigo.com/personal/al...37f58cda&ID=10


Or get a photobucket acct. you can resize pictures in your photobucket acct.

Or just post the pics and i will resize them for you..

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

I found a resizer that works great! I will add to your thread on how to post a pic after I get the pics posted.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

First off, overlook the dirt/nastiness of the car. It is my DD and I have not had the time to clean her as I should.

Here is a pic of the fuel pump cover. You can tell I have two sets of wires coming from the cover. Both of these go to the fuel pump.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

How does it look under the cover?

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Here is somewhat some kind of proof....

Again, please overlook the nastiness here...I will clean it up once it is running.



Pic of the VE in my VG engine bay...

Pic of the VG sitting on the drive...

Another pic of the VG on the drive...

Decent pic of the VE in the VG bay...


more to follow....................

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

more pics as promised.....


pic from the PS of the car.......


If you blow this one up you can see where it says it is supposed to be a VG....


Pic of my poor baby just waiting to carry me around again......

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

That will be something I will have to take a pic of tomorrow or Saturday. Best I remember, the connectors go straight down from where they go through the cover. I will verify either tomorrow or Saturday and let you know.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Here is a pic of where my relay box should be.......

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Oh, as you can tell, my cooling system on the VG was not the greatest in the world.

The radiator had started leaking pretty badly and the VE's system was in really good shape (no rust and does not leak) so I swapped them.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Oh! If you look in the background of the pic I posted of the body of my car you can see the donor car back there.

Mack531

Question: If you swapped "the entire harness" how can the circuit for the ignition coils be somewhere else? Wouldn't you have to cut somethin' somewhere to not include it? What did you cut out or not include besides the fuse/relay box next to the power steering reservoir? The electronics for the ABS system?

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Look in the FSM....you will see where the harness actually goes to the engine bay from both the drivers side and also the passenger side.


Everyone I had talked to for advice before doing the swap thought all you needed was from the passenger side as it goes to the ECU.

Now, after doing the swap and not being able to get it cranked and with the deductive help of everyone here, the ENTIRE harness must be swapped. The relay box for the ignition coils comes from the DS of the harness.


If you have read all of the posts in this thread, you will see where I said that I did not and did not want to do any splicing.

The ABS is factory in the 90SE, but I may have to lose it as the 93SE does not have it.

maximagician

could it have to do with the 1 or 2 relays in the trunk fsm pg EL-190
its shows green=fuel pump relay....
and orange=safety relay(vg model)vg only? and why?
just bringing it up because no one else did
but if hes doing a ve in a vg car it should have both?

maximagician

as far as fuel pump price differences...
arent some the whole assembly(float,pickup bag,pump mount etc)
and some have you remove and swap the pump part only ?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

His issue is most likely a spark issue,not a fuel issue that is preventing the car from running,if you will look at my post about the coil relay on the passenger side of the car,you will see that my car would not start with the relay unplugged,chances are with his car not even having the relay or the whole relay box and wiring installed,must be the reason why the car will not run.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

You can probably fool the ECU into thinking that the relay is there and engaged, just cross a few wires.

I'm no expert at these diagrams, but to me it looks like you need to put +12 on pin 16, and ground pin 45 to give the condition of a closed relay.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I don't think that will work,I believe the ecu only controls the spark time of the coils,not their power source,which is what the relay and it's wiring if for..

ghostridden

iTrader: (2)

this is his son, we're just planning on swapping the rest of the harness over so that relay will be there, then swap fuel pumps, and HOPEFULLY that'll fix the problem, cause personally i'm ready to hear the thing run lol

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Then also ground the negative wires of the coil harnesses, because the ECU just sends +

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

well... you've gone this far, might as well follow through

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Yeah,it's probably best to this the right way and swap everything over that has to do with the ve,instead of rigging stuff up to work..