Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I still have my money on a bad m/c..Rebuild kits are pretty much useless in most cases.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Master Cylinder is being replaced, car will be ready tomorrow.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

me too! i'm replacing my clutch master cylinder... it's leaking into the carpet. hopefully that will fix my clutch problem. Mine bled fine, just didn't have quite enough pressure until 1inch depression on the thing.. and by thing, i mean pedal. but your brakes had no pressure whatsoever at all, right?

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

They had very little, and less after I did the rebuild.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

were air bubbles still coming up through the holes in the fluid resevoir the whole time?

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

The only time I saw air bubbles coming up through the reservoir was when I bled the master cylinder after bolting it back on. Other than that... who knows, I was always at the wheel so I wouldn't have seen either way.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

Get ready to replace your clutch slave as well. I've always found that for the clutch pair, if one goes out the other isn't far behind.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

So you didn't bench bleed your MC before re-installing it?

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

I followed the FSM procedure to install and bleed the MC, it instructs to do it on the car.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

I'll replace it soon. I got $300 of undeposited checks to stuff into my account first though.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

This wouldn't be in the FSM. It's just an old mechanics trick. It allows you to bleed all the air out of a new MC while watching by yourself. Just chuck the MC body in a vise, fill it up with brake fluid, run plastic lines from the outputs back into the reseviour (these use to be included with all MCs years ago) and then push and pull the clevis rod in and out. When there's no air left, the MC is ready to be installed. It cuts down on a lot of running back and forth between the right rear wheel and the MC when you first start on car bleeding.

Mike90SE

iTrader: (3)

Dang man, you ARE showing your age

But you are right, this will save MAJOR time and headaches in bleeding a brake system. (have used it many times myself)

gen3fan

iTrader: (3)

you know, I hadn't manually bled brakes in a long time. but didn't the proper way used to be pump-the-crap-out-of-the-pedal-and-close-the-valve-when-there's-no-more-bubbles?
or was that more the way for the older drum brakes? (yes I'm that old)

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, I have read about that general method before, but this actually is in the FSM:

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

same thing as bench bleeding except that way needs 2 people

shoult

iTrader: (1)

It's not the same. With bench bleeding you are bleeding the master before you install it on the vehicle. You screw clear plastic lines into the outputs and then run them back up into the resevour. You bleed it on the bench until you see no bubbles in the clear tubes. It's way more acuarate the "feeling" whether it's right.

It's a HUGE time saver over dry installing in the car and can save quite a bit of fluid too.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

on that

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

for the clutch mcyl i just held it in my left hand and plugged the hole w/ my thumb... pushed the rod in with my right hand and topped off every 2 or 3 pumps until air was not passing by my thumb. then i replugged it with the rubber stopper and bolted it in place.. but then again the clutch mcyl is smaller and has only 1 outlet.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

On a clutch cylinder that''s just fine. You can practically bleed the entire system while standing in one spot and it a small system with one short run of tubing. A brake system is WAY different, EXCEPT that they both use the same fluid and hydraulic pressure.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Haha so maybe I'm not so incompetent! I was supposed to have the car back two days ago, but they delayed a bit so I figured just let them work and eventually I'll have it back. Today I got a call, they cant figure out why there is no pedal pressure. This is with a new M/C now.

A suggestion was made to me that there is a problem with the calipers I put on up front, but that doesnt make sense to me because if the pressure loss is there then they should both have leaks.

Whats next... brake booster? Could something inside of it break and cause the output rod to stop pushing into the M/C but still give a bit of pedal resistance?

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

Havent kept up with the thread so sorry if I repost this next question. Have you checked if any of the rubber caliper hoses have like bubble about to burst when you press the pedal in? I dont know if it works like this with hoses but with tires I know you get bubbles/bumps. If this is possible then the bubble might be forming out when you press the pedal and goes back in when you let go therefore causing crappy feel.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

I put on stainless steel lines.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

Just spitballing here.....

I once had a car that I could never bleed right. I put on a brand new OEM hose with the replacement caliper. I never could get a good feel from the brakes. Spent most of my time looking at the OTHER three corners before I finally gave up and took the new caliper and hose off. After looking the caliper over completely, I checked the hose. Turns out there was a defect in the hose that acted like a one way valve (it was actually a flap of rubber on the inside of the hose). Press the pedal down and the valve opened. let off the pedal and the valve closed. Stumped me for quite a while.

Put on a new hose and ALL was happy.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

ah ok, and you havent lost any fluid AT ALL...? have you tried stock setup to see if its the "aftermarket" parts?

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

If they cant solve it, that will be the first thing I do once I get the car back.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

if they can't solve it will they charge you? I hope not.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Just talked to them again. I'll be paying for the m/c and the labor to replace it, if it was another place I would probably argue about this, but the owner is a family friend and helps us all the time so I'm not going to stiff him. Either way, I now know for sure that this component of the system is working, and that the system has been thoroughly bled by a competent shop. They looked at the booster and said its fine. It brakes lightly when the pedal is all the way down, which is about the same as it was before I rebuilt the m/c originally... maybe a little better even. Most likely I'll have it towed back today in order to work on it tomorrow.

I'm now moving my attention to the Z32 calipers I got SurraTT. I called my dad and he suggested that the fluid may be moving between the caliper pistons and the wall around them, then getting sucked back in... so it wouldnt necessarily leak out but it would loose pressure at the same time.

I'll install the original calipers and see how it is, then maybe try to see if the Z32 calipers can hold some air pressure.

LvR

Guaranteed its NOT the booster (it is the correct booster for that MC though? - ie - no shortened/non-std push-rod length?)

I would again say go back to my earlier posts and make up the MC blocked screws I suggested . If the MC operation is 100% you will have a pretty solid pedal soon as it starts moving. Once you know that aspect is fine, make up blocked nuts that you can screw all the ends of the brake-lines at the wheels into - once again the pedal must be solid just about soon as the pedal starts moving. If you can get here it should be pretty easy to fit and test one wheels caliper at a time and test the system - there is no other way than to be methodical.

Me? - family/friend/pro shop I don't care - its your money and the "shop" is supposedly supplying a professional brake service. If they cannot be logical and methodical about the process what the hell are they doing in the business? - sure as hell they are not supplying you any value for your money

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

I agree with this... I just took a look at 1992maximase30's rear brakes on his new 92gxe which supposedly had new brakes and the shoes, hardware kit, and wheel cyl and they did look brand new but there was no adjuster in there.. how the hell can a shop be a shop when they do something like that...I dont know.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

when i had my uncle do my Tbelt job, my cousin was helping with it since he works there too.. they used a screwdriver to pry my rad hose off but split the hose in the process, and just put it back on at the end and tightened the clamp. 2 weeks later i had a huge leak and had to buy a replacement hose. Now what if I didn't know ANYTHING about cars... you know those people who put gas in it and have never seen under the hood in their life... It wasn't a problem for me, as i do so much work on my car... but if I had been anyone else I'd be somewhat screwed.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

I completely understand that one must stand a hard line as a consumer, and I generally do, but the owner of this shop has been very helpful for a long time with a lot of work on many different cars. He always goes out of his way to help us out when we need something, and in this case he did discount the labor.

Disputing this is not worth ruining the long-term relationship with him, and its hard enough to find a trustworthy mechanic or shop for the rare occasions when I actually need one.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Its fixed!

The issue was with the Z32 calipers, they still had air in them. Their freaking bleeder is all the way at the bottom, and the fluid flows in at about mid height, so air just chilled inside near the top and never came out through all the bleeding. Once I realized this, I just unbolted them and re-oriented so that the bleeder was at the top, and all the air got out. Brakes work great now, better than I ever remember on this car.

I'm going back to it now, putting in 9007s and then off to the car wash.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

how did you keep the pistons from popping out when you reoriented it? if you hadn't posted this i was actually about to post and say "are you sure there is no air trapped in the piston chamber of one or more of the calipers?". Well thank god you can drive your maxima again... no worries.. be happy

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

I took the disc off as well. Once the caliper is unbolted there is nothing holding the disk.

I just looked up the 300ZX FSM, and in that application the caliper is mounted with the bleeder on the top, so it sits behind the axle. In the max, with the bracket, its sits in front of the axle so it isnt being bled as intended by Nissan. I am suprised that others who have this BBK havent suggested this as the cause of my issues.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

wait so is the bleeder on the short edge or the long edge of the caliper? if it's on the short edge then swap left and right, that may solve your bleeding problem. if it's on the long edge i don't know what much you can do besides reclocking the caliper adapter plates.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Ahhh... I installed them on the wrong sides, why didnt that occur to me earlier? Where is the smiley for 'Doh!'? Well now that they are this way, they are staying.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

your 2:30 post told me you had them on the wrong sides. but i just read it now after you figured it out.
and here's the smilie you wanted:

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

The test drive mostly went well, except towards the end the front calipers seized. I released pressure and the problem hasnt come back.

LvR

You still convinced you have a new MC and a professionally well-bled hydraulic system all in good condition?