hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

My 92 VE has started groaning every once in awhile really loudly (not your typical low-on-fluid groan) when the engine is cold and I'm turning hard right (and maybe left, I'm not sure) from a stop. I hear it as soon as I start letting the clutch out in 1st gear, when I hear and feel it I let off the gas and push in the clutch and it stops. Then I start again and I don't hear/feel it. Is this my power steering pump going bad? How hard are these to replace/fix?

This might also explain this sound from my car that has been going on for a year or so now b/c I can't figure out what it is:

While idling - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNX3-56yI-s
While driving - http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yix0PL7Vn2E (sorry about the dirty windshield, haha)

I hear it almost every time I start driving the car even if the engine is relatively warm (like 30 minutes sitting). The sound follows the rpms, so when the rpms are low the fluttering sound is slower and lower pitched and when the rpms climb higher the sound becomes higher pitched and flutters faster. The sound is coming from the passenger side of the engine somewhere near the back of the engine closer to the firewall.

I'll hear the sound usually for 4 or 5 minutes after starting up the car. I hear it when I am in gear and at low rpms. As the rpms climb to about 2000 the sound will dissapear. Then I'll shift at 2500 or so and I'll hear the sound again in the new gear as the rpms move up until I get to 2000 rpms again and it dissapears again. I hear it at idle sometimes also, soon after starting up the car.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

my initial thought was a lose belt. but I would venture to say that ain't it. perhaps your pwr. steering pump is on the fritz?

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I need to check the belt tension.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

random thought, but waterpump? how new is yours?

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

I got a new waterpump about 2 1/2 years ago.

redwood_usa

iTrader: (4)

if you havent changed the power steering fluid in the last 2 years - do it. Take a turkey baster, draw out all the fluid from the reservoir and then refill. Drive for a day and repeat.

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

I do have constant power steering fluid loss and I'm always having to top it off every 2-3 weeks. It leaks right from the little hose coming out of the fluid reservoir, though. It's never been changed in the 2 1/2 years I've owned it.

LvR

My guess something to do with belts ..................

Remove all belts - same noise present? If not, then replace one belt at a time till you find the culprit - my guess its a tensioner or ps/wp/alt/AC.

Have you got original hoses on the PS pump ?

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't know, but I haven't changed them since I bought it 2 1/2 years ago. I'll try taking the belts off one at a time. Any tips on how to do it (or just follow the autozone instructions?), also, is it safe to drive without the ps/wp belt on? I'm guessing it's ok if for very short distances while the engine is cold?

Oh and I got new belts 2 1/2 years ago too and they still look good.

LvR

Follow those instructions to take them off yes. IMO you don't actually have to even drive it - in that first clip of yours you can hear it just after you started the motor already

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that video was taken a few months ago, now it seems to only want to make the sound at idle if I rev it quickly. It's probably b/c that video was taken in cold utah and now I live in warm LA. But I could goose it after taking the belt off, i just think I could better hear if I drove it some b/c that is when I really hear it. Maybe I'll just drive it down the street a little.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yeah just don't let it get too hot, the temp gauge won't be accurate, and the stationary coolant will trap heat in the block. come to think of it my car makes a "sound" that I wouldn't know if it's just how a VG30E sounds, or if it's a weird sound. but it's really sort of tough to describe. in fact, it's almost possible to describe. Maybe the distro, tbelt, or wpump are producing the sound but it's in that area. A/c is not belted atm.

92 Max

First check your belts and pulleys (with the engine off). If your P/S reservior has been leaking, it might be leaking on one of the belts or pulleys, making them slip.
I just rebuilt my power steering pump and it was not hard, however most people just opt for a rebuilt pump.
If you opt to rebuild yours, replace the hoses while you're at it and heres a site that rebuilds a P/S pump SIMILAR to ours, but not quite the same. Even though, it's better than just the exploded diagram in the shop manual.
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...showtopic=9851

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

cool, thanks, i'll check out the belts and see if there's too much slack or atf fluid leaking onto them or the pulleys.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i can't pm you, but i was gonna ask where you got your PS rebuild kit from i have a spare that i can rebuild.

92 Max

I just got two gasket kits from the dealer. I'll look what number they are when I get home. One is a front seal kit and the other is the rest of the gaskets for the pump. I couldn't tell where the leak came from since p/s fluid was everywhere so I just replaced them all. When I reinstall it this week I'll repost if it was sucessful.

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

How much did they run you, and has anyone had luck with ps seal kits from autozone or checker/shucks/kragen?

shoult

iTrader: (1)

I bought a compete, rebuilt PS pump off eBay 6 years ago for $25 and it's still working fine. My time is worth more then that.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well mine whines rather than leaks. so that wouldn't really be a gasket-based problem then would it. not the same as the sound hoyshnin's car makes tho. my pump just sort of sits there and says "whyyyyyyyy" and "i hate life" when i'm driving.

92 Max

The seal kit drive shaft (pulley shaft seal, washer and circlip) is about $10 on line and the other gaskets which is just called the seal kit (all other gaskets for the pump) runs about $15-20 depending on model. These are the online prices, the dealer will be well in excess of this. (I bought online, well online from a dealer)

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

Here's the update:

So the first sound (groaning while turning) doesn't seem to be only when turning while starting from a stop - I hear it whether I'm turning or going straight when I start going slowly in 1st gear. I don't hear it everytime I start moving in first gear, I only hear it when the engine is cold, and it does seem to be more common when I am turning at the same time. The sound comes from the transmission area and I'm thinking it has something to do with the new clutch job I got a few months ago (there was no sound before that). It is a groaning sound like smooth metal rubbing against smooth metal, so I'm going to take it back to the transmission shop to have them look at it. I only hear it when I'm letting the clutch out in first gear - when the clutch is pushed in or all the way out the groaning stops.

On the second sound (the one in the videos), I've ruled out belts. I took all three off, started the car and drove a little and the sound is still there. What should I look for next? The sound is definitely coming from the passenger side of the engine near the firewall or the rear of the engine. If it's not the belts what else could it be? All my manifold studs seem to be intact. Is there some sort of vacuum hose or something I could look for that might be loose around that area? I kind of doubt it would be a hose because it is so loud. Any ideas?

maximaman1313

i just watched the videos, and i can only notice it when your shifting.

even you saying that it goes away when you put in the clutch, tells me its tranny related. definately take it back to whoever did your clutch. have them inspect it/warranty work. if all they did was the clutch, and problem exists inside the tranny internals, then i guess it wouldn't be there fault tho

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

the second sound (in the videos) i only get after shifting and at lower rpms, or letting off the gas and pushing in the clutch as the engine winds down quickly (i sometimes hear it at idle, but pretty rarely now - probably because it's warm here and cold when i took the video where it is idling).

all the tranny shop did was the clutch, so i'm hoping it's something with the clutch, but we'll see.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Fix that leak first and get that air out of your system...that's what it sounds like to me!

Wiking

...my bet is belt -and/or- pump bearings ... if its steering related.

Note that my max steering was groaning at RH turn, since 20k [not wailing like yours]. Stealership geniuses never found the issue. Its been soundless, healthy after 60k.

Belt tightenin http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/23

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

Bleed the power steering? Is that what you're saying? I doubt there's air in there, and even if there was, it wouldn't make a noise would it?

hoyshnin

iTrader: (1)

No, it's not the belts, I took them all off and the sound was still there. And I spun the tensioners and everything the belts touch and it's all smooth.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

he meant that if you have a leak, there is potential for air to get into the system

Wiking

If all means all, then there isnt much left but cam/valves, piston rings...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

what about wheel bearings?

Wiking

Hmm. That would at least fit with "while turning" clausule. My brains didnt register such a sound, but then my tinhat is old.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Yes it'll make plenty of noise, especially when turning! It's a pump! Ever heard an engine/engine oil pump work quietly without oil? Same scenario!

Wiking

Ever heard a pump making noise when its not rotating? Please read all the thread posts.