LvR

Yeah sure, but you are not open to contemplating/discussing the known mechanical/electrical limitations of any solenoid (and in particular the auto's line pres solenoid design) and the amount of current you need to move that plunger ................ and as a result exactly what it is you are doing with your mod .................

If exact and definitive pressures are what you are after in order to confirm what your mod is doing ito solenoid/line press tuning then I would suggest you get the 10bar meter I suggested earlier - I use WOT sometimes, but I am not going to screw around with full pump pressure in the line system during non-WOT conditions for no obvious reason.

I maintain that with your current mod as detailed/described, barring, as I already mentioned, the possible change of the alternative WOT definition because of the introduction of your switch, there is absolutely no electrical or mechanical or hydro-dynamic reason to expect the box to behave differently at all.

Wiking

1. First u say there is a change. 2. Next u say, no change. Which one is true?

Did u check the linky. No. Why? If u did, why no comment.

I know how my tranny behaves with/without the added resistance, this is not the issue. Actual difference is loud and clear.

--------------------------------------------------------

General Gene-Rally:

If any feature on earth is given value A, its maximum opposite is given value Z ... surely value K has to be/behave/fit/exhibit smtg between. Cant see what difficulty is seeing this basic truth.

LvR

I think you are misuoting/misunderstanding what I am saying:

1. I never said there is/will be a change at WOT. You want me to disconnect the current OEM resistor and thus feed full pump pressure to the line circuits even during nonn-WOT conditions. That is what I am objecting to.

2. I checked your link but there is simply no comment required imo - fwiw though - removing the resistor by means of an added series NC switch opening when reaching WOT, will achieve exactly nothing again because the TCM already outputs no voltage (and thus no line pres modulation) at WOT ................. and your mod achieves exactly the same - ie - nothing
IMO you are wrong - that is exactly the issue. You want to discuss the auto's durability with your mod, but nobody knows what it actually does. As long as you cannot describe ito pressures and timing what it is your mod does we are filling the board with pointless comments on each other's general mechanical and electrical experiences - thats all.

I can really not contribute anything more sensible to this discussion as long as you simply refuse to contemplate simple mechanical and electrical facts - and in particular the possible change of the WOT point as I described earlier as well as the fact that the TCU already ensures full pump pressure in the line circuits at WOT (detected via TPS), so I will bow out now - once again, I am glad that you have achieved the wanted effect you craved with this mod, but my head is just to flat to understand the reason for your results.

Wiking

True. I dont understand at all... happens. Not misquoting on purpose, I honor your input.

Hard butt dyno evidence shows that TCU TPS ctrl doesnt give full pressure WOT or WOTnot. Not in my car, not in the explanation mentioned in the linky. And that theory is not even supported by FSM txt.

WOT isnt the issue here, its just a way to limit full pressure implementation time window. Show me a kickdown detector, and I'll use it. Then time delay relay to keep full pressure on for half a second when 2nd is coming on. That would be better...

Anyways, here even toilet valves do work linearly. This happens to be solenoid driven. I found the sweet adjusted spot where I want this valve to drip, but afraid to use it always...

LvR

Ok I will try once more:

Forget what you are actually experiencing and answer these questions:

1.
Do you agree that from what is said there, that the closer you get to WOT operation, the more line pressure is apparently required to cope with the increased torque input into the box?
2.
Do you agree that wrt the dropper resistor and the solenoid resistance measured in that diagram, we basically have a resistor divider circuit being fed from #2 TCU?

3.
Do you agree that the functionality of pin#2 described here in this diagram, electrically, modulates the line press solenoid valve by applying voltage (current) to it? ................. and

4. Because of that, can at best supply 14V (assuming alternator full charge potential) or, 0V (TCU not outputting anything on #2), or some voltage (thus line press modulating coil current) in between? ........... and

5. That according to these diagrams and questions above the absolute minimum current that pin#2 can supply to the line pres solenoid is 0?

If any of your answers is anything other than "YES' , then I am afraid we can have no further sensible conversation.

If however you answered all the questions yes we can continue with this:

6. Do you agree that no matter what you do or how you do it ito limiting the current going to the line pres solenoid, you can at best cause the line pres solenoid to NOT act and thus NOT limit the line pressure (iow whatever the pump outputs is applied unmodified to the line circuits)?............. and

7. If that is the case, that WOT operation dictates, that by the
TPS signaling the TCU to not output any voltage on pin #2 (read sentence "When accelerator pedal is depressed fully after warming up the engine" in above FSM AT diagram pic and the associated expected and normal judgment std condition), that WOT operation with a warm engine and tranny will result in full pump pressure being applied to the line circuits?

If any of your answers is anything other than "YES' , then I am afraid we can have no further sensible conversation.

If however you answered both the questions 6 and 7 "yes" we can continue with this:

8. Do you now see why your suggested mod cannot possibly affect WOT operation as you (and also the guy in that link of yours) suggest?

If you answered "NO" or anything other than that here, we can have no further sensible conversation and I thus give up.

As I said - the only possible way for you to experience what you are with your mod, is for you to have moved the definition of the TP WOT point by adding the extra switch, and thereby causing the full pump pressure to be switched onto the line circuits earlier than what normally happens as a result of the TPS detecting WOT operation.

Wiking

Hard to forget ...and I cant profess crimes I didnt do...

1. y 2. y 3. Dont know - in my case 4. y 5. y
- reservations: ...havent seen the TCU schema.
6. y 7. maybe so, cant comprehend yet 8. according that explanation yes

We can have, but with unknown variables in my case, precise answer will never materialize - frustrating. Maybe its my TCU drivers that are giving up? I could eat your explanation as whole - except I have steel hard facts that wont fit in. (Doesnt prove theory is wrong, but implies smtg is not known here).

Solenoids in generally: Whatever happens, any solenoid will not pull at all with infinite resistance Z in series. Starting from there, it starts to pull, as R is gradually increasing - until resistance is zero A. The pulling force is directly proportional to the R-value from A-to-Z. My mod value is now 'K'. (Also worn solenoid, dirt, misaligned core rod cause problems)

The whole point in here, was to gouge info how would my tranny last. Thks for the last input... Based on all input, I think this mod is not and will be no problem for band & clutches to last. Second is to hlp others with similar problems - 'fainting' TCU's? Is smbdy will be helped, then I have found my goals.

Years ago I explained here how the soooftness & slipping vanished after connector cleanup, shown on my CDomain page. Supply voltage surely went up. Whatever the cause was, this mod results can also be consistent with it - the TCU drivers are (?) aging and giving gradually out...

Number NINE: life happens that way, against darwins theories... I am now trannyhappy Hope it continues.

LvR

Those unknown variables can very easily be defined as I said - go find a 10 bar pressure meter and stick it on the line pres port - measure with and without your mod and state measured and verifiable facts.
Electrically it may excert a force because of current flow, but mechanically I have always and without fail found solenoids have a dead-band characteristic before they start mechanically moving or respnding to the applied electrical/magnetic force ................. I am confident its the case here too.
I am one of those people with an auto on its last legs I am sure - hence my interest in your findings. I will not be doing your mod, but lets hope somebody else does and can report equally satisfactorily response improvements.
With cleanup I can see things improving yes and have experienced the same - at least our experiences there agree.

Wiking

Anybody may verify that, me anybody is lazy. My boxes are full of 'resistors', pressure gauges only to adjust diesel nozzles (300bar), tires and dinghies... this would mean shopping.

IF problem lurks in TCU, swap would help. Me happy lazy until -if- happiness turn to t-error, then I'll try that another backyard TCU which is firm. Anyways I'll give feedback after some real testing, next fall. This tst day is still too young...

1992maximase30

okay um wiking don't mean to sound like a noob for the wot mode i would have to buy a aftermarket switch or use the tps hard/soft switch??

becuase i disconnected the harness....and WHOA!
the delay from 1>2 shift was gone.

she hit hard not that hard in all the gears.
ummm...so either the drop resistor is going or the line press. sensor is going.

because once it apllies 2nd gear you can feel it compared to 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th.

Wiking

I want to hear more ... as u get the resistor. Please also test the TPS resistor and tell me the values. (Wondering: If TPS was bad, it would fit this syndrome)

Is there such sensor...?

Switch: I guess anything goes. TPS "wot" switch works already at 2/3 gas, if thats ok for you, use it. Should not mix with TCU circuitry, so leave connector open. Its not needed, only TCU self diag... I drive mostly with open paint can in my car, the other mode is the digital 0/1 mode to leave the hooligans into the horizon...

U can have a switch in the cabin near gas pedal or wheatever.

A WOT switch needs to have a rigid support at TB, that needs some thinking. My slinky solution rests on the cover, rubber between

1992maximase30

okay so i'll test the resistor and tps. and for all i know the tps probably needs to be adjusted...
my bad about the line spressure sensor...i meant to say solenoid. lol.

as for the switch i think i'll use the tps switch.

Wiking

FSM lists pressure problems like this:

Line pressure too low 'at WOT', FSM AT-86
- mal adjusted TPS
- ctrl piston damage
- line pressure valve sticking
- short circuit of line pressure valve circuit
- pressure regulator valve or plug sticking
- pilot valve sticking

1992maximase30

hmmm....sounds line the lps on mines.
hey wiking before you did the mod did you adjust the tps?

heres what i did iirc when the engine is in closed loop you loosen the two screws on the tps, dissconnect the tps harness and move the tps/hard/soft switch till the idle goes up a little.

then connect the tps harness.
and should be set.

well i did that.
and the shifts were quick...and a lilttle hard.

so then back off a little bit and the shift delay was gone a little bit.

so im assuming when they replaced the engine they did'nt adjust the tps switch.

but now that i read everything i'm going to do it with the dvom instead of the engine...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

on your ECU there's a mode (mode IV, iirc) that you use to calibrate the TPS. have someone watch the CEL. start with the TPS in a position that has the CEL on, then slowly turn it (i forget which direction) until the CEL turns off. tps = adjusted. that's what it means when it says that Hard closed throttle position switch is not used except for on-board diagnostics.

Wiking

FSM: "TPS switches are not used" - thus no meaning.

The pot linear resistance while turning is the issue - has to be checked.

There is three ways to verify TPS resistance, check:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/6

1992maximase30

oh noes! i got a flashing P light.
but went away after that.

okay i looked in the fsm...i could'nt fine the tps part on how to check in mines so i looked in the ve's.
i got no continuity i did'nt bother to check the tps part becuase it said if i get nothing sensor is n/g.

but the flashing P light never came back.

OH ANOTHER THING...when in auto mode you floor the gas or press it quickly the P light never came on.

but after the P light was flashing and never came back...the P light now comes on for 3 seconds; well it does what it's supposed to do now.

now maybe i can "adjust" it now...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

what did you get no continuity for? and how are you gonna adjust the tps? the mode4 CEL method is the best way to do it, since that's the only reason the hard closed throttle circuit is even there.

1992maximase30

i got no continuity for the hard/soft switch.
i just now read about doing the mode 4 cel.

in the ve30 part of the manual it states to test the switch for continuity...nothing when the throttle is open and cont. when the throttle is closed....

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yeah continuity is when it's closed. did you test the middle and bottom pins of the TPS? (i think the soft/hard is the one straight on the sensor itself, and the variable is off the little harness right?)

1992maximase30

yea i got kinda confused when i seen the little harness.
but the wire/harness is the tps.
while the lil box on the side of the tb is the s/h switch.

but no i did'nt test the tps becuase i got nothing.
but now i don't see the P light flashin so i'm going to check the tps anyway to see.
and check the tcu for codes

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

heh, i call the whole darn thing a TPS. i meant soft/hard.... you tested middle to bottom right? if it was out of adjustment to the point where even at no throttle you still have the HS switch open, then you will never get a reading.

1992maximase30

nope i had it adjusted you can tell by the engine.
but it must have been like that for a while becuase i always had it on the power mode.

thanks for the help!

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

so you just adjusted it? or still going to? i really need to pay more attention to my TPS... it's got green disease on it which i still need to fix.

1992maximase30

yea mines had corrosion on it too..so i cleaned it too.
i adjusted it though.

and...well it's fine on high end; LOVE HOW SHE SHIFTS NOW when taking off.
but now if the revs are between 3.5-4.5k rpms the delay is there.

someone told me i'm bruning out my tranny by letting this happen.
i checked my fluid and smelled...it's fine.

so am i burning my tranny by the shifts doing this?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

define "this". i'm 99% sure i missed something somewhere along the line

1992maximase30

meaning by letting the transmission shift this way.
like i said it's not slipping.
it sometimes feels as if i have it 1st gear then hold the gas at a certain rpm then throw the shifter into 2nd.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

any non-standard operation is capable of damaging the transmission, to be honest. so if it isn't shifting just right, then it's probably suffering excessive wear in SOME aspect, and maybe being easier on some other part. but I wouldn't want to risk that the part being overworked is a part that fails earlier in the lifecycle than later.

you won't necessarily smell burnt fluid immediately. you might be, say, slow-roasting it haha.

i'm no a/t expert, as i don't even have an a/t, but my blanket statement still applies - if it doesn't work properly then you run a risk of damaging something.

1992maximase30

slow-roasting it...lol!
it's baffeling though.
i've had her for about 1 month and 1/2 so i should've been smelling something by now.
i belive it was either wiking who said my fluid could be contaminated.
which can't be farfetched since she sat in the garage for two years.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

unmoved in a garage?

also how long have you been 'letting it shift' like that?

Wiking

Frgot already: did u check TPS? Did u clean all connectors, check charge voltage at TCU?

1992maximase30

ehh..lets see about a month and 1/2.
which is bout as long as i had her.

as for the tps..i checked the switch and when it was bad i was gonna replace it.
but once i started moving it up and down to adjust it it was fine.
but i guess i can check again.

Wiking

Switches are not used --->check the resistance for linearity http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/6

1992maximase30

okay i think we stumbled onto something here,
i checked the tps and here's what i got:
connector 1/mid: 1.15k-7.86k ohms.
connector 2/mid: 8.22k-1.89k ohms.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yes, one is the reverse of the other. i haven't looked at the diagrams intensively but maybe one circuit is for ECU and the other for TCU

1992maximase30

are u saying yes becuase we might've found the problem??

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

no. because that's how it's supposed to be.

1992maximase30

oh...
yea i'm still baffled as to why the mid range shifts are like that.
i really love how she shifts when floored.
she does'nt bump into the next gear,no delays, no slipping.

same as low rpm range.

i think i'm gonna have to do wiking mod.

Wiking

Here's how the 1st to 2nd today goes with the 5k R mod. I like it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGraWZ_nkJg

1992maximase30

so i take it you were floorin it?
thats how she shifts when being floored 'cept you don't feel it goin into the next gear.

i did the tcu test and no codes.
at first i thought it was sayin for the rev sensor.
i checked the rev sensor and it's between 676-690ohms.
the specs are supposed to be 500-650 ohms.

whats weird is the tcu does'nt give me a code unless there's no circuit for it.
could this be my problem?

Wiking

Yes, digital gas pedal= 1/0 eg. ON/OFF ... Here itwas ON

No way of knowing without a tst:
A dying sensor can function on certain conditions, other times not. The whole system is a wobbling swamp: temp, charge, hydraulics etc etc each do their own. Poor signal will not be good enough with some variables south... The rpm sensor is an easy swap.