Wiking

Its like u say. There might still be the academic question where keeping bigger mass revolving needs bigger amount of energy. Equal to start hopping on right foot to save shoes...

Btw, my A/T is locked after 20 min drive, starts $avin

Mysticcal

so here in the bay area, prem is like 4.50, i've been using unleaded for a few fillups since i bought it, but now that i read that premium helps in a VE, is it worth the 30cents a gal cost to get more MPG? thanks.

getting 13-16MPG and looking for a solution.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well, MPG depends alot on your driving style too, and as low as your MPG is i'm guessing your o2 sensor isn't working either (in which case 13-16 is as good as you're ever going to get), (that or you never make it past 3rd gear, stop and go traffic) so the best thing to do is to fix your limiting factors, and then test it and see how it does with the premium. every car is different, and we can only offer general suggestions. yes a VE will do much better with premium but whether YOUR ve will do 7% better (.30 on 4.20 give or take) just from switching to premium is something that you can only find out by testing. you could potentially have larger gains than 7%, which would make it worth it to use premium all the time. It's not such a big deal in a VG so i've always used 89 since my timing is advanced 3deg.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Use premium so that your engine doesnt knock and runs at proper timing.

Mysticcal

Thanks for the info on the O2 sensor, i'll have to try replacing that and see my results. I really need better MPG, looking everywhere for it. I use to drive like it was a racecar, now im really careful about sudden lead foots. Gas is spiked to 4.60 for premium here and I think once it hits $5 a gal for regular im just gonna start taking the bus.

shoult

iTrader: (1)

Did you have to get the car smogged when you bought it? If it passed emissions then chances are your O2 semsor is fine.

But still, 13-16 mpg is pretty bad for a VE even in the city.

MaximaN00b

rip out the engine, put an engine from a geo metro in it.. that'll do it!

$72 right now to fill my tank up.. Amazing! I remember when $18 would have filled it! And this isnt inflation, this is a monopoly.. Which is SUPPOSED to be against the law..

stupid Jeep commericials **** me off, claiming buy a jeep, get gas for $2.99, $3 a gallon is still a profit for the gas co's. and surely they struck a deal with Jeep to do this.

people are gonna start to get mugged for their gas, *dont you move motherf**ker, wait there while i suck the gas outta your tank!" haha

i think its easily gonna hit $5 a gallon by end of summer maybe even mid-summer

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

IF I were to buy a new car, that would be one reason I would not buy a jeep, or any other vehicle offering some stupid gimick like that. sure, the price of gas is cheaper(regular fuel, for XXX number of gallons, both ftl), but you are still paying for the gas indirectly. knock that much off the price of the car(truck, van, motorcycle, whatever), and let me pay my own gas. gas doesnt have interest payments due on it.
I have seen news of people parking their cars downtown, and coming back to a car with an empty tank. that's just the beginning for the muggings.
just watch out for people parked in cars around gas stations, and when you start to fill up, they make a phone call, or get on a walkie-talkie...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

Nissan's gas deal is BS... they discount the sticker price by half the annual fuel cost stated on the sticker. It's just a gimmick, and there's a 99% chance that the Jeep one is just another sales gimmick to move their POS jeeps that nobody wants to buy now that gas is high priced. It's got nothing to do with striking a deal with the gas company... it's just a rebate-type of thing. You think Hummers are flying off the lot right now? I haven't seen a commercial for a Hummer in a good 6 months.

And no it's not inflation. It's supply and demand, combined with the weak US dollar. The exchange rate between US money and Saudi Arabian money is key here... if the dollar is mad-strong, we'll need less of them to buy their oil. If the dollar is weak, we need more of them to buy their oil. And the demand for oil has increased steeply (by comparison) in recent years. Crude went up, then gas prices go up. Gas stations make large profits by moving large amounts of product at a small profit margin. But millions of gallons at pennies on the dollar is still good money for a day's sales. If only we could drill in Alaska, and if only the Gov't weren't pushing Ethanol (discouraging oil companies from opening new refineries)... but nope the tree huggers are ruining it for everyone.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

2x wrong.
cars can pass with a bad o2, been there, done that. my exhaust leak helped though.
I would have loved to have seen 16 mpg city out of my VE. I was lucky to see 14 mpg city. I only got 17 mpg mixed city and highway.

1992maximase30

i got 16 mpg in the city with my old ve.
that was before the 2 bad injectors, knock sensor, and a coil.
all that was left was the bad cylinder.

tv4184

iTrader: (1)

When I first bought my 93' with the VE30DE...I got about 320 miles on my first tank and my friend said that was with spirited driving in the first half tank. I've been getting better mileage in it than my TSX, which is actually a 4 cylinder. My friend had replaced the knock sensor and 2 cracked coils. Since the first tank, the other 3, I got about 330, 340, and 360 miles. Only problem now is since then, we had to replace a misfiring fuel injector that was throwing codes, but we didn't replace the o-rings. So now its flooding the cylinder causing starter problems. Some how though I still got about 200 miles for the first half tank. I haven't calculated the MPG though, which I'm guessing is about 23-25 mpg. I shift at around 2200 rpm and I fill up with 91 octane. I'm still learning though, this was my first stick shift car...I'm about 8 years behind most experienced drivers since I'm already 24...

Obsession_92-94

I hear you on the time factor man. I am kind of a novice at shifting myself, but I am pretty sure that you want to shift a little higher than 2200 RPM. That will usually lead to engine bogging and not-so-good fuel economy. Try shifting at a higher RPM like between 2500 and 2900 even so that drop does not put you in the low teen-hundred RPMs.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

it would be sweet if someone could actually gather data on this as far as the most fuel efficient rev range for each engine in m/t form. I just hurry my shifting so much to keep the car from bouncing around b/c of my bad mounts (3 out of 4 are bad)... and it's annoying esp at lower speeds to lift and have the thing bounce around like it's humping me while i'm driving it or something. plus if i don't match up the revs perfectly and the clutch has to increase the rpm for me, it will slam and bounce... not so much if i'm a tiny bit tooo high. but if i'm way too high, then yea it bounces then too (like if I lag on the clutch takeup but still pick up the throttle and the RPM rockets away before the clutch catches it again).

how do you shift around corners and when braking to a light? shift before the brakes whenever possible? or brakes, quick downshift, brake some more? or just leave it in whatever gear you were in and then shift at the moment you wish to pickup the throttle again? and what kind of MPG returns to you get based on your personal shiftpoint variations?

MaximaN00b

Sadly gasoline is 10% Ethonal now too, ever notice that at the pumps?? So it SHOULD be cheaper, yet its not!

And **** Saudi Arabia!! Buy gas from SUNOCO or HESS! They dont deal with oil from the middle-west.
I always buy from Sunoco.. MOBILE and SHELL are the leading dealers in middle-eastern Oil.

MaximaN00b

i dont know about these guys who shift at 2200rpm, thats crazy to me.. if you ask me, your cruising RPM should be around 2000rpm, shift point is generally 3000rpm. Then again, higher with the Maxima, since its redline is 6600. The maxima is generous on breaking IN gear, coming to a redlight even in fourth gear, I can break while in gear down to say 1500rpm, no bog, then clutch, then all break. I USED to be a downshifter big time.. but now Im only a downshifter for corners and such.

I used to drive a 2.2litre toyota pick up, 5 speed. Thats where I learned my shift ranges, 2k minumum, and 3k is a good next gear shift point.

With the Max, Id say 2800rpm seems to be the BEST shift point, as you will drop back to 2000rpm or so..

Maybe some save gas by babyin it, but hell.. I drive it like i stole it! And Ive owned mine for 1 year 3 months, only had to replace 4 tires, and 2 injectors.

MaximaN00b

And ever drive a car with no tach? lol I have.. an old gfs escort wagon.. Shifting should be natural to you, its mostly by feel and the sound of the engine.. Like riding a dirtbike... Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
lmao, I made that noise before, but it was while I was under arrest and I was trying to make a sqeeling pig noise

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

We get BP from canada.
of course I am in the midwest, so our oil isn't as heavily bought from the arabs. at least BP is canadian oil around here

MaximaN00b

BP is Mobile isnt it? But whos to say, Canda doesnt get it from Saudis??
Im only going buy something I read, I dont know if its true or not, but i believe it enough to only buy from Sunoco, and since Im picky anyways.. i only get gas from either Sunoco Or Mobile.

O wait, BP is Shell..

ProphetVG30E

I always thought Bp was amoco

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

British Petroleum merged with Amoco (formerly Standard Oil of Indiana) in December 1998, becoming BPAmoco until 2000 when it was renamed BP and adopted the tagline "Beyond Petroleum," which remains in use today...


and canada has some pretty good oil resources...
http://www.rense.com/general37/petrol.htm

(btw, mobil is exxon, shell is its own entity)

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yea and that's just it... if I don't deliberately shift at one rpm or the other i still shift at like 2300.... (my tach needle was removed and replaced by the PO, or was just farked-up from the factory, and is off by 200, so it looks like 2500

actually i've driven a car with a completely nonfunctional cluster... shifted with no idea what speed or what tach i had going on. best stick car i ever drove, in terms of shift feel and clutch engagement predictability. 1st gen Neon, go freakin' figure! I'm still fighting pedal feel on the maxima.... i can't find a way to make it engage earlyish without there being a BIG spot of freeplay and incomplete disengagement. i think it's my slave cylinder's fault... when i rebuilt it, the new piston thing felt like it was a few microns too big... so it is too tight for the spring to naturally push the piston out to take up the slack. so the vacuum-action of the pedal coming up, pulling on the rod, thus the mcyl, thus the fluid down the line, sucks the slave cylinder ALL THE WAY back in (gap before pushrod touches release fork) rather than the little spring in the SC holding it snug to the release fork, and new fluid drawing in instead of pulling back the piston. i suppose i could just find a way to pressurize the resevoir and just drive some new fluid down in there, and a couple depressions of the pedal would hopefully equalize the pressure and return point so i wouldn't have a constantly-slipping clutch or anything... i dunno i may just put the old piston back in the SC b/c it didn't seem to be leaking anyhow. i'm also thinking maybe deleting the block and loop in combination with switching to an SS clutch line is part of the reason my engagement is too rough for me, because the SS hose cannot expand, therefore the window of engagement is much narrower and allows for half-depression shifts, whereas a rubber line can expand some, allowing you to have a little more flexy feel to the clutch, and as the rubber expands, it makes the engagement further out into the pressing of the clutch, and softens the engagement thusly.

tv4184

iTrader: (1)

Actually shifting at 2k-2.2k rpm, the engine doesn't bog down for me. I don't drive the car that aggressively. I feel its more natural to shift at that point and then I shift higher when I'm trying to get power to get on the freeway. But still im getting around 350+ miles the way I'm driving it so maybe it works. I still have yet to understand downshifting though...

It just depends on what you're used to. I know when driving the s2000, the shift point is way higher and then going back to the Max and shifting lower is werid and sometimes you end up shifting at almost red line since the s2000 redline is at like 8k. I cruise at around 1500 rpm in the city and that feels good to me...engine isn't bogging or anything. I know when it bogs down too cuz I learned that real quick my first few days of driving the Max.

I'm at the point where I don't really look at the tach anymore and shift by the sound of the engine. I'm not as distracted as I used to be anymore either.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

yea. i was driving my friend's 2.2L probe today, and what felt best on that car was to shift at 3000rpm. so it really is a matter of feel, but i just gauged what i was doing, and shifted appropriately based on what i felt was working best. totally different feel (everything much softer and lighter) but the by-feel component still works just as well on either car. it's just that his car has less power, and feels better at higher RPM. not to mention his mounts aren't broken so it's not as uncomfortable to ride higher rpms.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

BP was Amoco (still is in some rare instances)
Canada has several oil fields that probably connect to that wonderful one we have in alaska, but they use theirs.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

dunno about sunoco but there's a hess just down the street!

but yea i guess that dumb-**** Gore hasn't thought much about the fact that my car (and MILLIONS of other cars) would get BETTER fuel mileage on straight gasoline than E10..... for two reasons. a) ethanol is a low-energy fuel and b) it RUINS our fuel injectors and causes our cars to run like crap, which 99% of the time a crappy-running car gets worse MPG than it would if it ran flawlessly, all other factors the same. i really wish Gore (why did i capitalize the G in his name? is he even worth letter-capitalization?) would get violated by a horse and die from internal hemmoraging...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

that's on the low-side of how i normally shift (maybe hold 4th a few mph longer sometimes, or if on a hill of course hold all gears longer)... but 99% of the time i'm in 5th by the time I hit 45mph if the limit is 45mph, hold out another 200rpm if the limit is 55mph, and shift at like 3k if the limit is 65. naturally if i'm in a hurry then i shift later (4000ish getting onto the freeway or w/e), but all-in-all that's my typical around-town driving style.

oh and just for s&g this is what happens when i'm paying too much attention to the camera and not enough to my footwork when stopped up a slight hill (i DID hit the gas.... just not in time): http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...t=MVI_1796.flv

OH! and remember... that tach reads 200ish rpm high at all times. so my idle is dead on at 750... not 950 or whatever it looks like.

Wiking

Related FYI quick crap ---> http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110353/article.html

Obsession_92-94

What sort of fuel economy do you shifting this way?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

absolutely no less than 24mpg, which usually involves 40 minutes a day of highway cruising, 40 minutes a day of city driving, and 10 minutes a day in stop-and-go traffic with a/c on on the interstate (by stop and go i mean never get past 3rd gear.. 1-2-3 stop. 1-2 stop. 1 stop. 1 stop. 1-2 stop. 1 stop. half-of-1 stop. 1-2-3 stop.)

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

for how torn my motor mounts are, nothing on that page matters



YET!!!

basically i shift as smooth as i can for the way the mounts are, but I really have to be super gentle on the clutch so it won't bounce the engine around. as soon as the clutch begins to engage, the engine is slammed against the top of the mount, and then as the clutch finishes engagement it slams it down then up again. fixing this next month when funds are back up after maxus.

Obsession_92-94

Nice! I would usually end up with 22mpg in the city and highway, but that is due to high shifting and letting my older brother drive the car (hey, not my fault the Maxima runs better than his DSM). I still feel a little skeptical about shifting in the low 2k RPM. Doesn't the engine bog down at the low 1k RPMs?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i mean there's noticeably less power but it pulls decently well from lower rpms. for the way i drive, it accelerates as well as i really need it to when i drive it like that. so yes, if i instead downshift and stick it at 3200rpm and jam it, it's going to take off hella faster.. but i rarely need to do that. but when i need a quick burst of speed, then yea, i'll wring it out some. i took right on red on the ONLY opening in a pack of cars yesterday... 4200 in 1st and 3800 in 2nd, 3rd for a half sec, and straight to 5th

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

you are comparing a VE to a VG. they have different sweet shift points. take some time playing around with shift points to find it's best MPG

garbury

iTrader: (4)

I didn't read this thread because I don't have a max anymore, but my ve 5 speed was awesome on gas. 23 city 31 highway. mods:2.5" catback, stock cat, y-pipe, random cone filter/pop charger. I didn't baby it much and still got over 20 during my most aggressive tanks. Always ran 91 and chevron.

shift at 15, 25, 33 and 40. its the best way, it even says it in the manual. For the highway, i was cruising at about 95 and still had awesome mileage. granted it was only one measurement and could have been due to angle of the tanks during fill up, but it was super exciting.

Oh yeah, for those worried about bogging a motor, i shift my nutless 240 at 2500 without bogging at all. I don't make real power till beyond 3k so its like driving a civic or something really slow. Boost is addicting however and i always manage to dump fuel every time im out there. the 240 gets about 21 city and 27 highway driving for fun. 350 whp and decent economy

Obsession_92-94

Pardon my ignorance, but you can convert a VG to a standard? I was not aware that that was possible or that many had done it in terms of parts matching up or there being enough power.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

85-91 VG was available from the factory with a stick shift.
92-94 VGs have to be swapped but you can use the VE trans if you want (back to 89 also) it's all fairly interchangeable when it comes to manual transmissions.