Hey guys... been quite a while.

I have some new info that I didn't notice being posted here yet so wanted to inform you guys on some new possibilities to make some awesome power with the VG. I've been mostly screwing around with my Z32 lately and was originally going to drop in a VH45 but have since dropped that project and went back to my roots with the engine I love... the VG30E. Yeah, that's right I'm going to be putting one of those in my Z32 with a bit of boost. Well, ok not the VG30E but instead the VG33E, which is what I'm here to post about.

A machinist recently found out that the VG33 has a hidden secret not many know about. A lot of people found out about the cool VG34 setup using Q45 pistons but there's actually a whole lot more you can do. Turns out, the cylinder walls in these suckers are HUGE. Huge enough in fact that you can actually punch them out to 3.8 liters. Do that and get some custom pistons, slightly higher compression ratio if going NA, and get some good head work with some cams and you'll have an NA VG monster. This is especially good for those that don't want boost... but if you do want boost the extra displacement only helps to make an even great monster of a car... if you can get our poor transmissions to handle the abuse that is.

On top of that, even if you just wanted the extra increase from the VG33 alone there is a very simple procedure of swapping them to VG30E powered cars which should still hold true for the Maxima. The big issue for some people has been the crank. It uses a much thicker snout similar to that of the VG30DE(TT). All you need to do is swap the crank from the VG30E to the VG33E along with all external bits like the oil pump, cam and main timing belt gears, water pump, front cover, etc. and it should just drop right in to the Maxima. If I remember correctly, you can also put the Maxima's cams in the VG33 for a slight bump as the VG30 cams have a bit more lift than the VG33's (they VG33's are likely designed for better low end performance than the VG30 in the Maxima). If you do put the Maxima's cams in be sure to also put in the lifters as well as the lifters wear to the particular cam being used and will likely wear out very fast if used with a different cam (this holds true if going with a new cam as well... get new lifters if you get a new cam).

Just thought I'd keep you guys in the loop. Good luck!

 

about time you posted something useful
hi mark

 

What type of power do you expect? The na Z32 puts out 222 hp. Decent motor.

 

I love my vg33e. As well as it likes gas lol. Great low to mid, not as much up high. I love to see this work out though. I don't have a max anymore, but still in the vg fam damily.

 

What vehicle is your VG33E in?

 

I don't have any numbers as no one has built one like that yet... but, I wouldn't be surprised if you could push it to nearly 300 bhp. I actually have met and talked with a guy that built a VG33E using high compression pistons, custom cams, custom headers, etc. and he was around 260-270 if I remember correctly. He actually had his own flow bench in his garage and said his heads were able to flow enough for an easy 300 hp so, with the proper head mods of course, 3.8 liters should be able to reach that pretty easily.

The VG30DE is definitely a decent engine, along with the VG30DETT, but with this VG33 option you should be able to easily out perform either and for less money, which I what I'm trying right now. I'm going to build up a VG33 and see if I can shame any DETT's with it spending probably half what they do building them up. I probably won't bore it out, or at least not a whole lot, to retain some economy but with some boost it should easily be able to embarrass some DETT Z's. On top of being cheaper they are also a bit lighter and I think the SOHC VG's are actually a little more reliable to boot.

 

96 pathfinder, the motor is from infiniti qx4 1998, other than emissions, the only difference i found was the 98 plus motors had a chrome crank.

 

Them Infiniti's are pimp right down to the crank.

I remember from the hybrid 3.4 VG thread that using the maxima heads with the VG33 block would be good. That might be a better option than swapping out cams.

 

I think the VG33 heads/ports are supposed to be slightly better from what I've seen in the past. Also, I think there's a slight chance the oil/coolant passages may be slightly different between the two, I've heard some mention they're slightly different.

Now one thing I forgot to mention and still need to double check is the head gasket bore diameter. There's a chance the stock head gaskets may not be large enough for the full 3.8 liter setup which would require custom gaskets but I'm still trying to find that info.

 

the VG33 has lower lift cams, as well as indents in the pistons with a 8.9:1 CR versus the VG30's 9:1 to make the VG33 a non-interference engine, where as the VG30E is an interference engine.

 

That's something I'm still trying to verify. Looking at the design it seems as though it should be non-interference but I've read a lot of VG33 owners claim they are interference. Regardless, building it up like I mentioned above will likely make it an interference design if it currently is not but that doesn't really mean too much... just do the timing belt right basically.

 

Check out VGPowered.com, its a growing community and has a lot of useful info. VGPowered is meant to bring all VG-engine enthusiasts together.

But it was intended to be non-interference, atleast the Quest/Villager versions are.

 

the vg30e in those vehicles are non-inter' while all other vg30e's are (barring some forgotten exclusion). I understand the 33e's and 33er's are inter' engines.
I would not doubt that nissan would make some 33s as non-interference.

 

I find this a little hard to believe. I know the VG is overbuilt but most people recommend that you don't bore an RB past 2.8. I would assume to see similar or smaller gains with a VG. A whole half a liter over it's highest displacing factory offering? I'm going to have to beg my friend to buy a VG just to tear it apart and test this.

 

Retract

 

It does? Where did you get this info?


Mtcookson, the only VG engines that were non interference were those in the Villager/Quests (This was a demand by Ford who didnt want to sell an interference engine) Every VG engine in a Nissan car (except 93-02 Quests) is interference.

 

Insert foot into mouth now... sorry, my ADD kicked in. The bore size is bigger, and the cooling passages routed differently. The block dimensions are the same.

Note to everyone... this is what happens when you have Car ADD like me and have 3 project vehicles going at once, one house to fix, and tons of stuff to do at work.

 

so many engine swap ideas, so little money to spare for this but it seems that it will be alot cheaper than swapping in a VQ or boosting the existing motor in our cars. im liking this so far. keep getting us more info on this Mark.

 

All this talk about built NA VG motors makes me want to pick up another 3rd gen right now.

 

you should. you know you want to.

 

working at JY FTW, but lacking skill and talent FTL!

 

 

holy **** this thread rocks are you saying my vg30e can be bored to 3.8l i thought the limit was 3.4 and that 3.3 would be pushing it now i know its possible but wont this severely destroy the engine's integrity and reduce its life by more than half?

i dont mean too sound negative but i cant beleive that this is actually possible

 

It's not possible, stop thinking that.

 

It's hard enough $$$$$$ getting a VQ35 to 3.8L! IMO it's not possible! The only folks that are gonna benefit from the VG33 are gonna be RWD folks, the FWD and RWD VG blocks are slightly different!

 

the 33 can be made to work. it's not the block, its the lower internals (oil pump, crank, couple of other things...)
it's not the difference between a vg and a vq!:

 

Ugh, that means resources =hell yes

ability = not so much

 

Please read the quote correctly....I'm not stating there a difference between the VG and VQ! We all know there is! If you can read and understand what I said,"It's hard enough ($$$$) trying to get a VQ35 to 3.8 liters!" What's meant by that is ....There are stroker kits, piston and sleeve kits available for the VQ35 all day, but you will be spending BIG $$$$$!
Now for your VG33 and VG30 wetdream it's only gonna benefit the RWD boys cause the VG30 (FWD) and VG30, VG33 (RWD) blocks are different from each other in more ways than the lower recip assy, their motor mt location are different as well! So go bang your own head...and B4 you go to bed tonite, count on your hand/s on how many Maximas owners have accomplished this Mod successfully!!!!!

 

okay, I am going to stop you right there.
how many people have swapped a maxima engine into a z? hundreds, since the max engine is so readily available compared to the z vg30e.
they have also swapped maxima engines into the likes of vg powered pickups/SUVs as replacements. they ALSO have swapped the engines of these same pickups and SUVS with vg33e's. because they bolt right in.
I will admit, because of the lower engine crap, it isn't a direct bolt in. but basically swap the lower stuff, and you have the same engine.

 

there was a FWD 3.3 as well. look at the quest

 

just curious what would it cost to get pistons rings and pins made. Would use the z32 rods since they are forged. Probably be loads of money tempted to do this for my z31 this winter project. Can pick up a motor for $125 at local u-pull-it. Had the idea for 3.4 but this would be good experience for the nissan group.

 

Not the VG30, the VG33.

I think the absolute upper limit of the VG30 would probably be 90 to 91 mm... but that's pushing it in my opinion... and... that's not even the bore of the VG33, which starts at 91.5. You have to start with the VG33 to pull this off since it was redesigned for the larger bore and has enough cylinder wall to handle an even bigger bore.

As said above, this is absolutely incorrect. The base casting of the blocks are identical. Same motor mount locations, same accessory mount locations, the VG33 even retains the same oil filter mount that the VG30's use but is simply blocked off as they use an oil filter mount right off of the oil pump. Swap the external bits and the crank and it should slide right in to any VG30 powered vehicle.

As said above, Maxima engines are routinely put into Z's and vice versa. I should know... I've done it. I have a Maxima engine in a turbo Z31 and had a RWD turbo Gloria engine in my Maxima.

Depends on where you go. For larger pistons like these you'd probably be looking at $600 to $700, but I could be wrong. You'd just have to call around. BRC Pistons is a popular company for the Z31 crowd and makes very high quality pistons. Just tell them you want and they'll make it.

On the Z32 rods being forged, this is correct but just in case anyone gets the wrong impression, the Maxima's rods are forged as well. Actually, all Nissan rods since something like the early 70's are forged.

The only thing throwing me off is the Quest's VG33 specs. The cams for all of the VG33's except for the 1999-2000 Frontier have the same specs... which can only mean that if the Quest is non-interference all of the others are and vise versa (excluding the 99-00 Frontier). Unless they changed the pistons in the Quest/Villager, they appear to be the same as the other VG33's (again, excluding 99-00 Frontier).

 

Why the hell go through the trouble of using Z32 rods.

First they are heavier with larger wrist pin design.

Second Z31 rods are forged steel.

Third if any of you actually build a VG/E motor i doubt you'll surpass the power threshold of the Z31 rods.

The biggest a VG/E engine will get is 3.4 l before the walls are too thin.

And finally why the hell spend ALL that money trying to get to 300 hp on an NA engine when a turbo swap from a Z would be sooo much easier and cost effective. These heads flow crappy and are single cam.

 

Because you can use aftermarket, forged rods which are lighter than the stock rods which helps to further increase performance. They are also much stronger (aftermarket) but as you said, most people aren't going to be breaking them. The greatest benefit is from the weigh reduction in our case.


Uh... please read the thread again. A VG30E can't even get to 3.3 liters without the walls getting too thin (89 mm would probably be the safest limit putting it at 3.1 liters). A VG33E has extra thick cylinder walls that can be safely bored to 99 mm, which will leave up to 1/8 thick walls and will put the displacement at 3.8 liters. This has been verified by a person at a machine shop that tested the thickness to the actual wall break through point.

Edit: 90 mm on a VG30 should be the limit


Because you actually won't be spending all that much. Yes, going with boost will leave you with more potential for the money spent in most cases but this is an excellent alternative for those that don't want to go with boost or those who want to go absolutely all out with boost.

Lets look at cost:
VG33 - $500
VG30 parts for swap - free, you should already have them
Bearings for crank swap - ~$50
Custom pistons - $600 to $700
Rods - free if you use the stock rods, otherwise you can get SCAT rods from Summit Racing for $449.95
Cams - Isky does regrinds for $175 I think, they can do whatever specs you want so they can be specifically designed for NA performance

You're under $2,000 at that point which is about what you'll be spending for a decent turbo setup, more for a good turbo setup. Both setups will need fuel/ignition tuning so add that cost to each setup.

The only concern I have is the head gasket for the 3.8 setup. I don't know the diameter of the VG33 gasket so it may or may not be large enough for that setup. If not, you'll need a custom gasket from somewhere. They won't be super expensive but I would bet you'd be looking in the $200 to $300 range for one. Still not a bad deal considering you should be able to make more power NA than even the newer VQ's. :biggrin

 

The ONLY way you are getting 3.8 l from a vg30/3 is with a very handsome bore and custom stoke, and even that wont last long due to the custom piston skirt design and ring position necessary , if at all possible. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting a VG30/3 engine that much displacement. Please show me one link so I can learn more.

Big power requires two things: fuel and air. Your only concern isn't the gaskets, it is getting the heads to flow more than a T-3 to get you anywhere near those HP numbers.
plus the domed pistons are goin to be quite pricey since you are now changing the ring lands and skirt design.

Its the same thin, we always see. Big ideas, little math, and nofollow through.

Don't misunderstand. I would like to see a 3.8 L naturally aspirated VG38E running around with 13:1 compression on 94 octane.

Ain't gonna happen. If you guys want 300+ hp to the wheels, grap injectors/rail, DS manifold, T3/DP, and ECU out of a '86 Z and go nuts. Won't cost you as much as pistons and rods would.

 

Here you go, here's your proof: http://www.z31performance.com/forum/...15&hilit=vg33e

I edited my post above, the limit on the VG30 is actually about 90 mm.

You are not going to get 3.8 liters with a VG30 but you can get 3.8 liters with a VG33 with only a bore due to the thick cylinder walls.

You've never heard of anyone getting that displacement because its not been done yet as the info is relatively new. Hopefully some people will be trying it out pretty soon though. I'm planning on using a VG33 in my Z but will probably only go up to around 3.5 liters just for that extra displacement. I don't need to go overly big since I'll be going with boost and want to retain some economy for daily driving, which going with a larger bore tends to hurt.

 

Much obliged.

 

Stock head gasket for the 3.0 is 89mm in diameter for the 87mm piston. I would suspect that the 3.3 (with a 91.5mm bore) has about a 93.5mm head gasket diameter which is barely enough for a 3.4L with VH45DE pistons (93mm)
A 3.8L would certainly require a custom head gasket with a 99mm bore.

 

I agree. I recently saw someone post this link at another forum: http://www.gasketstogo.com/

Seems promising considering you don't have to get a huge order. Not sure on the costs as of yet but will find out soon. They'll do multi-layer steel (MLS) head gaskets, which are considered an upgrade for most engines. I don't really think the VG3xE absolutely needs MLS gaskets or even copper for that matter due to the number of head bolts but it definitely won't be bad, especially since these will be more performance oriented engines.

Edit: They will also do the composite gaskets, likely similar to the stock type, so MLS isn't absolutely required.

 

If you go with the 3.5L displacement what would be the bore and stroke measurements. The reason I ask is because I wonder if you can use the pistons from a 3.5L VQ. If so, that would make it very easy to swap in performance ready-made pistons.