So I've been reading through the forum and I think I have a broken exhaust stud, but I wanted to run the symptoms by everyone:

1993 GXE

1) When driving past walls or other cars you can hear this clicking sound that speeds up if you are accelerating.

2) With the hood open you can turn the throttle cable quickly and you can hear the same noise.

3) If you lightly turn the throttle under no load and slowly accelerate you have no noise.

4) It appears to come from the area you can see between the intake tubing and the boxy thing (yeah, real scientific) that it attached to the intake manifold to the right of the throttle body.

5) When you rev quickly, smoke trickles up from the same area you can hear it from.

Second problem:

When I brake with medium and above pressure I get a clunk from what feels either directly behind the pedal or in the area behind/below the center console.

I don't know how to check for a bad motor or tranny mount, but could this be the issue?

I appreciate any input.

 

Clicking sound is most likely an exhaust leak. Look at your exhaust manifold in the area you hear the noise from and you will prolly see a missing nut from the broken stud. It should not smoke... Im not sure about the clunk from braking.

 

Clunk is most likely a control arm bushing. Does it do it when accelerating, too?

 

I think it has done it while accelerating, but honestly I've been so caught up in the braking part of it that I can't remember.

I'll have to get my mirror on a stick and flashlight out and check it tomorrow. I'll also try to get a video of it posted up.

If it is broken, this is an engine dropping process I would imagine.

 

No, no, no...Control arm bushings are the bushings within that big stamped metal piece with the ball joint at the end. Lift up the car, kick the tire inward, and see if it moves. If so, bad control arm bushing. I'm sure there is a pic of one out there if you search. If you really can't figure out what I'm talking about I will snap a pic of mine and post it for you tomorrow.

 

http://uploader.ws/upload/200811/IMG_2839_3.jpg

http://uploader.ws/upload/200811/IMG_2845_4.jpg

in the first pic is ur front inner right front passenger Control arm bushing and in the second pic is front inner and rear inner front left driver side control arm bushing.....sorry i dont have pic for right rear inner bushing as these pics were taken by CAP....

if these bushings go bad then u will hear that noise wen u brake....this should help i guess..

and for ur engine bay smoke....i think its either exhaust leak or missing or broken nut.....get some combustion cleaner spray and spray it in ur intake manifold while engine running and see where the more blue smoke comes from and u will have an idea where to look ( if u cant figure it out by jus looking at regular smoke)

 

You guys are awesome! Thank you both for the info, when I go to change the oil this weekend I will definitely check that bushing. I have to change it soon, anyways, because I thought I had a horrible oil leak that was burning off and put a thing of lucas stop leak in there (I know, not the smartest idea). I've been in a constant state of repair with this car so I was about at my wits end.

So far it's been: Two injectors, upper/lower plenum gaskets, throttle gasket, front exhaust section with the flex, cat. converter, plug wires, all of the engine bay hoses, soldered clock, replace power/comfort switch, speed sensor, climate control unit, cruise control switches... and probably some other stuff I can't remember. lol

I inherited this beast from my wife at 250K miles after she had delivered pizzas in it, driven about a hundred 500 mile round trips from college and back, several GA->NY trips and god knows what else, but we're getting there and making this one run good, again.

After all of this I have to find out where my weather trim on my driver's window is leaking and creating horrible cabin/win noise and fixing the cruise control. Oh well, in time.

 

Okay, so I shot a couple of vids of the area. The sound is originating from the #6 cylinder (the one closest to the driver's side headlamp). You can see the smoke on video 1, and I placed the camera near the EGR on video 2 for a close up (if it's any help). It's strange, though, because I can't see any smoke from video 2.

Also, I ran my hands across all of the manifold studs and all 6 of the nuts are still there... hmm. Let me know what you guys think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E87ZJCmzWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irEFvok9Crc

EDIT:

I went and purchased a couple of can of degreaser and blasted the valve cover where it meets the block and the exhaust manifold where it had gummed up around the studs so it would be cleaner and hopefully easier to locate if I have any leaks there.

While doing that I ran a new hose from the back of the intake on the passenger side to an assembly on the firewall (I think it has something to do with a heating circuit?), so I don't know if it will affect anything. I did however, come across a few items that I've been unable to locate in my Hayne's (I know it sucks) or the phatG20 FSM I downloaded:

No clue what this **** affects, but I believe it may have been turned around a bit during the removal/installation of the intake manifold. What the heck is it and how should I rotate it?


There is also a hose disconnected on a metal box below the air filter box. I can't see where it connects to. Where does it go so I can correct it?


Last one... is this button that releases when the hood is up suppose to go to a lighting circuit or something? I know it's missing the rubber nipple on top but that's about it.


I'm having to do everything on a budget so I'll pick up an actual '93 FSM next chance I get. Thanks for any input!

 

The hood switch is for the alarm. The hose that goes nowhere is a vent for the transmission. And the 3rd item, appears to just be a capped off port on the egr selenoid? I'm not a 3rd genner so I'll let someone else confirm that.

The hose that you fixed, could it have been for your cruise control? Large plastic peice on the firewall? Or was it for the water valve, plastic peice connecting two fat coolant lines running into the firewall? Or does a third gen not have any of these and I have no idea wtf I'm talking about? Because that's possible as well.

 

Just wondering, do the 3rd gen's also give the symptom of car pulling to one side under acceleration?

 

That thingy is called a vacuum valve solenoid..You can spin the **** all you want, they seem to effect nothing.


He replaced the vacuum hose going to the water **** valve.

 

pezfallout:

I believe your smoke is coming from a oil leak on your front valve cover.

you will have to remove the intake manifold to replace the v/c gasket. might as well replace both v/c gaskets while you have the intake off.

 

yep, like a ****..

 

That ur Power Valve Control Solenoid Valve

 

i cant really figure it out by looking at the video that where the smoke is coming from....it could be what Greeny said but at first glance i thought its a bad EGR and its leaking somewhere.....

 

No, the top vvs(brown) is the for the egr..

The bottom vvs(green) is the power valve.

you need to start getting your facts straight before posting.

 

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. I was wondering why an exhaust leak would be smoky like that when it's colorless coming out of the muffler. It's not a huge deal at the moment since it's not gushing out and you can see in the first vid that's it's not burning quickly. Just means I'll keep having to add a bit of oil between changes.

I suppose my next step is to take the Max to a muffler shop and have them track down the leak because I'm stumped unless the clicking sound is coming from within the engine.

Is there anything that would cause a clicking loud enough to echo off walls inside the heads? I couldn't see valve tick being that bad? Maybe I'll go and threaten the VG with 20w-50 and see if it straightens up. lol

 

the FSM is available free in PDF format at: phatg20.net in the downloads section.

 

I already snagged that one, just had trouble navigating it, apparently.

I guess in the mean time while I try to narrow down if the clicking is the exhaust (no broken studs as far as I can tell, all nuts are there) or something in the head (valve tick from hell?) I can fix the seal belt chime problem on my passenger side.

 

opss!! mah bad i mixed them up...thanks for pointing it out Greeny...

 

Pezfallout - I have the exact same symptom you have - that clicking sound when accelerating. I also occasionally get that clunk sound but not that often where it bothers me. I wonder if the clunk sound might have something to do with the ABS system?

I bought some diagnostic tools today, and i'm going to run some tests soon and i'll let you know what I find. I have a snapped off exhaust manifold (front) stud & nut. By the way, did you check the rear exhaust manifold fasteners also?

This clicking sound is kind of weird - i'm not expecting it to be as easy as a missing stud. Could it be possible our heads are warping out of shape, and the gaskets arent sealing properly. When I remove my engine in the spring, I'm taking a straight edge to it.

By the way my clicking sound has gotten louder over the last 6 mo.

 

Honestly, I haven't checked my rear studs because it doesn't seem to be where the sound is originating. I will try to get my hands back there tomorrow, but I don't know if I'll be able to check all of them. I'm in an apartment and all of my wrenching is done on base at the auto hobby shop, so they would be smoking hot by the time I got there and would have to wait a couple of hours for them to cool.

I checked the oil this weekend and nothing was abnormal, but if the clicking isn't an exhaust issue it makes me wonder if the cam and valves are getting enough oil and the clicking is the metal-on-metal... I don't know, I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

 

Oh really imagine that...

Why does everything have to be the most complicated scenario in everyones head? If you have a broken stud...you have an exhaust leak...it will tick when you accelerate. PERIOD Stop over complicating things. Fix the obvious first. I have seen a lot of threads with people just refusing to take good advice lately. What more do you want from us than the right ****ing answer.

As you continue to drive on a broken stud the surface on the manifold that is seperating from the head will not heat up as fast as the rest of the manifold. This variation of temperature over time will continue to warp your exhaust manifold thus increasing the sound of the tick.

Pezfallout - Do as suggested and replace your valve cover gaskets and clean all that oil and crap. The only way to tell whats smoking and where is by having a clean engine. Also check your EGR like stated earlier. If you recently removed your IM you have to remove that piece so make sure it is hooked up correctly. Check all your coolant lines on the IM and make sure they are not leaking causing the smoke. Also just because the nuts are on doesnt mean the stud is good. And a leak on the rear manifold on the same side could cause noise from that area. Is the car missfiring?

Ok Im done

 

Actually, it's not that complicated, and i'm going to do the testing on it to make sure. I don't think you can be certain this clicking sound is coming from there - as I did an air test and nothing seems to be coming out there.

Depending on what nut is broken off, it's possible that the seal is still in tact, or it's possible it isn't. It's impossible to assume things without testing my actual vehicle.

You are assuming that this clicking sound is in fact an exhaust leak and not something different. Either way Pez, i'm removing the engine to do some work, and i'll be repairing those fasteners at the same time, but the worst would be if I assumed that was the fix, then I go to installing the whole beast back in, and then click click click.....biggest buzz kill.

If you end up getting it diagnosed outside, PLEASE send me a private message to let me know what was the outcome - it's very possible your clicking sound is the same as mine. My clicking sound by the way gets very loud on the expressway, I can actually hear it with my windows closed.

Can we actually get a ticket for that noise?

 

i dun think so....even if they give u just dispute it and then explain it to judge that why u disputed and it wasn't ur fault and u were going to fix it.....he will dismiss the ticket....( i have done that before )

 

Nope, the engine is running like a top ever since I replaced a fowled injector.

The car is cooling down outside right now so in an hour or two I'm going to get out there and reach my hand around the back and see if there is anything glaring that I can find.

On the up side, my master power window regulator failed on me this morning.

 

Okay, so I went outside and, sure enough, missing nut. Took about... three seconds. I guess the sound was echoing too badly in the engine compartment to really narrow down and made it sound like it was coming from the front.

This is the offender:



Honestly, can this be accomplished by one person with some left-twist bits? I figure I'm going to have to remove the oil filter to get to it (good time to change the oil!) but it seems doable. I have a right-angle power drill but would it be enough? Seems like these things would be rather seized and might require a right angle air wrench.

 

yeah, replacing the rear studs can be replaced with the tools you have, but imho, it would be less of a pita(to me) to remove the engine for the rears, but thats just me. Plus i would do many other fixes while the engine was removed

 

if you already have what you need (time, space, tools, know-how, money for minor crap you break during the process) to yank the motor then i'd say it's easier to remove it.

but of course if your apartment will let you crawl under the car to do 'minor work', but, say, not leave the car OBVIOUSLY undriveable/disassembled... then pulling the engine probably is not an option.

 

to add to...

If you live in an apt. complex, you shouldn't be doing much if any car work at all, especially a rear stud replacement on a 3rd gen.

 

i replaced a transmission overnight on a ZX2 where I live now. (I left at 8am and left it to him to finish reassembling the suspension and putting the axles in and whatnot.)
ungrateful SOB POS former-roommate-of-my-current-roommate only paid me $40 tho.

but karma got him. he got in a wreck and needs a headlight, fender, and bumper. his color is rare too. hahahaha. what'e better.... he didn't even remotely properly reattach the crossmember. I fully expect his engine to fall out while driving, one of these days. i will be so happy when it does.

 

ZX2's should be burnt on sight.

 

In due time, friend. In due time.

the IT guy (also cert. auto tech) at my last job (yes... i got canned last week.. which is how come i've been so MIA. only internet available to me is at the library....) heard i was working on a zx2 and said "so did you tell him that after he gets the axles back in and the wheels on, to go drive it off the nearest cliff?"


*************

anyhow, working on this at an apt or the like might be OK.. just need to make it look like you're just changing the oil. be sure to check your lease policy first or ask your neighbors if they've ever done car work w/o getting in trouble.

if you live at a house and still can't (or don't want to) remove the engine, then probably an angled drill will be OK, but your main plight is gonna be getting that centerpunch exactly in the center of the broken stud to begin with, being that you're 'going in blind'.

 

I didn't figure it would be a walk through the park. My neighbors are all really cool and I've done all of my previous work on it there, minus a few things I needed a lift for. Dropping the engine isn't an option at the moment, so the next step is to get the correct drill bits. I saw harbor freight had some good prices in some other threads so I'll check there, first.

My taste in vehicles is often times questionable, but we can all agree ZX2s aren't worth the plastic they're stamped out of.