mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

I seem to remember reading that Aaron or someone was going to use a VE trans on a VQ engine. Does that mean that a VQ trans would fit on a VE engine, and thus also a VG, since the VE 5-spd will fit on a VG? Anyone?

Also, the reason I ask is because I want to do the VE 5-spd VLSD swap onto my VG Max and wanted to know if I would be able to possibley use a VQ 5-spd instead so that I could upgrade the VLSD to a HLSD or Quaife LSD.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

any trans from the vq series era will not bolt up to any 3rd gen engine series..

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

as greeny said, they wont bolt up

as far as I can tell(by googling), the trans codes are the same for ve and vq lsd trannys. not 100%, since I killed my computer with my FSMs on it...

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

on an automatic of the RE4F04(A/V) type, you can swap the torque converter housings. So he used the VQ TC housing with the body of his VE VLSD a/t tranny.

on a m/t, the bellhousing is part of the case itself.. the tranny codes are the same for vg5, ve5, and vq5 trannies, but i don't know about the specific internal differences that would be involved in determining if the quaife unit will fit a VG/VE5 case.. i'm going to be splitting open a VQ-LSD5 and a VE5 tranny shortly so i'll take come comparison pics for you.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

That would be great . If there is any way for me to fit a Quaife I would really like to know. Of course, if all else fails I might just have to do the VQ35 swap when Aaron gets done with his write up, or (God forbid) swap up to a newer Max/Infiniti

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

heh. the main worry i have is bearing sizes.. i heard that the VG5 has smaller end bearings than VE5 but the Quaife ONLY fits in a non-LSD case.... BUT if the VQ5 non-LSD tranny has the same size bearings as the VE5 tranny, then the quaife would need to have the big bearings i'd think. The real way to know would be to just have an opened-up VQ5 and VG5 next to each other.... if they are the same, then you're in business, i'd think.

PMAX08

wow this is something id really be interested in, love to have an upgraded tranny, anyone else have more info on what would need to be done to make this work?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i don't think anyone's put an aftermarket diff in a 3rd gen tranny yet. But i'm going to be having access to a couple of trannies... and i know a guy who has a VG5 tranny opened up in his garage... therefore we can compare what parts are interchangeable. I need to get my hands on a VQ5 non-lsd cuz the one i'm gonna be working on is a VQLSD from the I30t.... mebbe khantalha will let me have his old diff, since he's putting a quaife in his 95...

PMAX08

VG5? i was talking about swapping the new tranny into a VE5, any chance of that working?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

the VG5 tranny will bolt onto a VE motor. you would need VG hubs and axles to do it tho. I heard the quaife does NOT fit in the LSD tranny cases (RS5F50V).. has to be the open-diff case (RS5F50A) which is the same tranny code as the VG5 but i'm not sure if they have internal differences, like bearing sizes, etc.

PMAX08

i meant the VQ tranny into a ve5, vg into a ve5 would be like downgrading i would think, lol

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

.......

VQ tranny WILL NOT FIT ON ANY 3RD GEN MOTOR!!! Did you even read post #2?

the VQ tranny is in NO WAY 'superior' to the VG or VE tranny... all you really care about is getting the Quaife LSD unit on a 3rd gen, right? Right. So you are gonna HAVE to use a 3rd gen tranny case. Which means either VG5 or VE5. BUT, since the Quaife doesn't fit the LSD trannies (VE) then that ONLY leaves you with the VG5 tranny. Therefore if the internals of the VG5 and the non-LSD VQ5 are the same, then you can probably put the quaife into the VG case. Only potential hangups are bearing sizes and the final drive ratio (VG5 is 3.65.. VQ/VE are 3.823)

PMAX08

ah ok, i misunderstood, i thought the vq tranny would be a better tranny all around, just swapping for lsd doesnt interest me, thanks for putting up with my lack of knowledge when it comes to trannys, lol

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

lots of people swap VE trannies onto VG's for the LSD... I did. I'm on my 3rd tranny now. (vgauto, vg5, ve5). Especially in canada with the slick roads in the long winters i'd think that'd be of interest to you.

PMAX08

oh no, i have a ve 5spd with LSD already, i was just interested in a newer tranny if it would be an upgrade kinda thing

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well the quaife is an upgrade compared to VLSD tho. that's how come they are used in lots of racing applications, whereas the VLSD is not used so much in racing

PMAX08

whats the diff between the 2? is it something i would notice in daily driving

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

the VLSD uses thick fluid to keep the wheels from spinning at a different speed. the quaife uses helical (spiral) gears to transfer torque from the low-traction (spinning) wheel to the high-traction (stuck) wheel. the specifics are a mystery to me, but that's the basic idea of it...

why is the HLSD a better slip-limiter? the VLSD always 'gives' a little bit. it doesn't force the stuck wheel to turn... it just strongly suggests that it turn. the gears in the quaife are solid metal so it literally forces the stuck wheel to turn.

and when you're trying to beat traffic when you've been waiting for 5 minutes to turn left out of the McDonald's parking lot and you FINALLY spotted a break in traffic that you can *just* squeeze your car through... yea you'll notice it.

PMAX08

so it can make your car more torguey? is it a big job to make this happen? also im guessing you have to purchase the entire tranny to get the quaife?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

no, i would assume so, and no.

it won't affect the amount of power you make, or anything like that. it just helps make sure that both tires are spinning at basically the same speed (with leeway for turning the wheel of course) so that if one tire has grip and the other one doesn't, the tire that DOES have grip will receive the power that the OTHER (spinning in mud/snow/ice/water/air) wheel is wasting. it does nothing when you're cruising in a straight line, or when you get on the gas from a roll.

the quaife is just a drop-in replacement for the stock differential. which means you have to split the tranny open, pull out the old diff, measure your clearances and get the proper shims for the bearings, and then reassemble it (give or take a few steps). so, by most people's definitions, that's a 'big job'. but i've never seen anything saying whether or not it will fit in the 3rd gen tranny case. i HAVE heard that they do not work in VLSD cases, but i don't know if it will fit in the non-vlsd 3rd gen tranny (ie, the VG5 tranny).. that's what i'm trying to find out. One of my friends here on the .Org is putting a quaife in his 4th gen, which means that he's gonna let me have his old stock diff... if the stock diff fits in a VG5 tranny properly, then odds are, so will the quaife.

PMAX08

nice, id love to do an entire 3.5 swap with ecu and tranny, but reading what mr nwp is going through id be in way over my head, i think eventually i will just have to get a 4th gen for more options

300zmax

Other than take off performance how would you compare the VE5 on the VG to the VG5. how is the shifting? are they the same , is the VE5 smoother? and how long can a clutch last?

im looking at a 89se with 203k original owner w/ original clutch.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

the tranny itself (gearshafts, synchros, etc) would still be the same as what you had already... quaife diff won't change how the rest of the tranny behaves, clutch wear, etc. so however long you can make a clutch last normally is how long it'll last with a quaife unless your newfound traction makes you drive more aggressively haha.

the main difference i've noticed having LSD is that even when i am spinning my front tires, it's still never "hopeless" like it was with the VG tranny. the car takes less time to start moving even when you are trying to get it going, and it helps quite a bit when it's raining and stuff.. of course if you are TOO aggressive and just start doing a 2-tire burnout (which the VG tranny can do.. if you are on level ground with the wheel straight) then you still have to lift to get grip back... same with the quaife, same with any fwd setup.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

Well, once you get that VQ stock diff to mock up with your open VG5 tranny let us know if it will fit.

In the meantime, I will try to make my VG slush box last as long as possible until I can afford a Quaife and/or VE5-spd swap. I still have a good lead (I think) on a high-stall torque converter for the VG once I scrape together a little more dough.

Speaking of HLSD, isn't that the diff that came with the Max SE 6-spd trannies in '02+ ?
If so how would they compare and differ from a Quaife, which also seems to be some kind of HLSD? If they are the same, it may be easier in the long run to wait for a VQ35+6spd swap.

300zmax

great thanks for the info, have no idea what quaife. is that french .

anyway just wanted to know what differences you have noticed on your VG with the two trannys.

thank again

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i think they are similar but different. iirc the 6spd has a Torsen HLSD. Quaife is its own company.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Just to be clear for anybody reading this. In the automatic world, the VG transmission (RE4F02A) is known to be a much weaker unit than the VE or VQ transmission (RE4F04A/V).

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

I've run both in my car. The VG has more optimal (read lower) gearing than the VE, but it is completely worth it to work with slightly higher gear ratios to gain LSD and the additional strength / durability...The VE trans is has significantly beefier internals. As far as the gearing goes, the VE is better matched to the higher-revving VE motor, which gains power as it revs...as opposed to the VG, which has plenty of down low grunt, but loses its mojo towards redline.

I never noticed any difference in the way they shift, they both have a good (if not a bit notchy) feel to them. I prefer the feel of any Jap M/T to the characteristically sloppy feel of a German shifter. (Drive your Maxima back-to-back with a Porsche 911 and get back to me...)

Pearl93VE

iTrader: (14)

Hmm, really? I'm not crazy about early 90's Japanese shifters- Always had a placement in third problem when I'm shifting quickly.

However the 5-spd in the 325i I drove and our Audi 90s are fantastic. Short, thick shifters, perfect length throws, smooth paths, good placement.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

oh i know that.. i meant the 5spds since the OP was specifically asking about the 5spd. i have opened a VE and VQ5-LSD (I30T) and there are some internal differences. mainly reverse gear.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

the gears i miss most are 4th and 5th... but i'm thinking that my shifter rod might be causing part of the problems with that. the end joint is somewhat seized on it. but after peeking inside the VQ and VE trannies i found a way to eliminate the springyness of the right-hand gate.. making a cable-shifter conversion possible. It's something i plan to do on my car later on in the year. also i'm getting the stock diff from a friend of mine, and sending it to someone who has an opened-up VG tranny to see if the VQ RS5F50A diff will fit the VG5 tranny... i heard tell that the quaifes are NOT compatible with the 50V.. we'll know in a few months.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

So, to bring another old but pertinent thread alive, my VG slush box is finally on its way out. It slips a lot between 2nd and 3rd shifts and even in 1st when it's cold. I had taken it completely off about 2 years ago (~12k miles ago) and replaced all the fluid with new Dex III ATF, but apparently that wasn't enough protection. I'm kind of surprised because supposedly (according to the digital odometer) the car only has 95K miles on it even though it's an '89. I think it may be because I was driving it a while with it being 1 quart low and also the trans mount has been loose and knocking for a few months. Oh well, I wanted to go stick anyway and this is an excuse.

So, I've been keeping my eye out for a VE5 tranny swap. I have a lead on a rebuilt VE trans as well as upgraded clutch and flywheel, but need to source all the other parts for the swap, like axles, pedals, linkage, shifter, etc, since the person already sold their parts car. I found an old VG 5-speed in the local yard with a complete setup, but it has 212K miles on it. Do you think I should get the VE tranny and just use the shifter, linkage, etc. from the VG car in the JY or will they not fit? Also, what of the value of getting the whole setup from the VG car instead of the VE and rebuilding it. Of course, as I've heard, the VG5 trannies are not so durable and I would have to try and install a Quaife later ($$$) if I wanted LSD. Anyway, what parts would be interchangeable? Thanks.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

absolutely everything from a VG5 tranny swap setup is compatible with a VE5 tranny except the inner axle joints. if you took VE5 axles and swapped on the outer joints of your VG axles you would even be able to keep your VG hubs.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

Do i need a VG or VE flywheel to use a VE5 trans?

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

If you have a VG motor you will use a VG flywheel.
If you have a VE motor you will use a VE flywheel.

The difference between the two is the number of bolts / pattern that holds the flywheel to the crankshaft.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

flywheel is engine-dependent, not tranny-dependent

VG is 6 bolts in the middle, VE is 8. the ring gear, thickness/offset off the crank, mounting studs and holes for the clutch are the same for both.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Guys. So, when I do the swap I will get a VG flywheel. I was thinking to get a Stillen or Fidanza unit but I think I heard somewhere that if you go turbo then you want a heavier flywheel to manage the rpms better. Is that right?