Broke timming belt I think What kind of damage is done
04-16-2009, 11:58 AM
#1
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Broke timming belt I think What kind of damage is done
I was driving to work when for about 2 seconds I heards a ticking sound and the engine quit. Pulled over and tried to restart but all I can feel is the crank assy moving and builds oil pressure but no resistance of compression of cylinders. What am I looking at.
04-16-2009, 12:06 PM
#2
Ok, remove the distributor cap, have someone try to start the engine, while you are looking at the rotor under the dizzy cap, if the rotor doesn't spin while the engine is cranking over, you have a broken timing belt..
04-16-2009, 12:49 PM
#5
just do the test as i outlined, then report back with the results..
Last edited by Greeny; 04-16-2009 at 12:51 PM.
04-16-2009, 05:59 PM
#8
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As suspected no movement of distributor And the crank was easily move by hand off the a/c belt. I would have thought the crank assy would have more friction then the valve train. So throwing in a new belt just ain't good enough. I guess. This was my only car and I had to give up a new job I started last week now that I don't have transport for a 60 mile commute. My life sucks.
sorry to hear..but you should have changed the belt long ago..
04-16-2009, 06:23 PM
#14
04-16-2009, 06:56 PM
#15
well can't he take it up with the shop then? a belt should last NO LESS than the specified service interval, and if it does, it's because of either defective parts, or installer error (or perhaps a blown water pump leaking antifreeze onto the belt).
04-16-2009, 07:13 PM
#17
well normally people do the water pump and the timing belt at the same time. if your water pump was done WAY before the timing belt i suppose there's always a chance that it should have been done again. check to see if there was any coolant leaking around that area. if there wasn't, then that rules out the water pump as a cause for the broken belt. only remaining options are installer error, or defective/subpar parts.
04-16-2009, 10:03 PM
#20
04-16-2009, 10:29 PM
#21
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So you had the belt replaced in '96 along with all those things and have only ever driver 18K miles and only now experienced the breakage?.
If thats the case I cannot see how any shop can be blamed for anything...............
04-16-2009, 10:52 PM
#22
his tbelt was done in california on a not-yet-specified date. water pump was done in arizona in '96
04-16-2009, 11:40 PM
#23
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You probably have a few choices - a. Have the car towed to a garage (hopefully you have AAA so you don't have to pay for it) and have them fix it or diagnose it for free if they'll do that b. Have a new engine dropped off at the end of your driveway onto the stand, and install it yourself c. Go buy a used one and move the engine over if you think it's worth it. d. Junkyard
a. Probably won't be viable if the engine really is toast, it will cost you over a thousand if not 2 thousand to have the garage put in a JY motor.
Honestly hartley, if you are trying to rely on a car to actually get to a place of employment in a reliable fashion - I wouldn't deal with one of these 3rd gens. Unless you spend alot of time fixing it yourself, even then it's iffy, they just aren't reliable enough at this point. They are 'long in the tooth' I guess you could say.
Alot of the weirdos on this website (including me) keep their 3rd gen at this point because it's a hobby....not to rely on for actual normal living. If they do, then they got guts. Alot of guys on here have access to a 2nd car if need be. I wouldn't rely on mine for crap if I couldn't drive the Honda as a backup. And there's no way I would go anywhere without CAA. I get 4 X 200KM towings per yr in CAN or US.
04-17-2009, 01:46 AM
#24
for something like a timing belt where you are using NEW parts, there is no excuse, regardless of the car's age, for the belt to snap prematurely. several members on here have over 200k or even over 300k miles and their belts last until 60k miles just fine. only thing that should make a belt BREAK prematurely is overtension, coolant leak, or reusing the old tensioner. insufficient tension, grease/oil on the sprockets, and an improperly tightened locknut can cause the belt to slip severely also, which could have similar effects to a broken belt
04-17-2009, 03:47 AM
#25
Most shops only offer a 90 day warranty, keep that in mind. In their eyes, that isnt their problem just because the car drove fine when it left the shop. Now if you still have a receipt for the labor and it states you're still covered then by all means try to pursue getting an engine from them. If not...you can get the motor replaced elsewhere with a junkyard one and no it will not run you 1,000 or 2,000 unless you're in canada or in a shop that is situated plain downtown of whatever city you're in.
Most junk yards (here at least) sell motors from 100-250 after a core charge. Replace Tbelt and all related parts, water pump, t-stat, several gasketsand bam that alone in parts is probably 600 bucks at most.
I've had a few friends have shops replace their engines and average cost was 300-450.
just an idea on what you can do IF you have the funds.
Most junk yards (here at least) sell motors from 100-250 after a core charge. Replace Tbelt and all related parts, water pump, t-stat, several gasketsand bam that alone in parts is probably 600 bucks at most.
I've had a few friends have shops replace their engines and average cost was 300-450.
just an idea on what you can do IF you have the funds.
04-17-2009, 04:39 AM
#26
for something like a timing belt where you are using NEW parts, there is no excuse, regardless of the car's age, for the belt to snap prematurely. several members on here have over 200k or even over 300k miles and their belts last until 60k miles just fine. only thing that should make a belt BREAK prematurely is overtension, coolant leak, or reusing the old tensioner. insufficient tension, grease/oil on the sprockets, and an improperly tightened locknut can cause the belt to slip severely also, which could have similar effects to a broken belt
04-17-2009, 08:22 AM
#27
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Honestly hartley, if you are trying to rely on a car to actually get to a place of employment in a reliable fashion - I wouldn't deal with one of these 3rd gens. Unless you spend alot of time fixing it yourself, even then it's iffy, they just aren't reliable enough at this point.
04-17-2009, 09:16 AM
#28
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Correction on dates. Belt was done in early 2005, cooling and charging system and battery in mid 2006 about 2 months apart and since I have moved to Wa. the crossover pipe cracked open a seat back frame broke as well as other annoyances and now the timing belt. Every time I move to a new climate something goes wrong. I am fighting a lost cause and I just needed it just for about 5 more months to travel to central U.S. to do some aircraft work that would have paid me about $5800 a month. I would have been able to get another car like an intrepid that has more room for traveling to work and perhaps replace the maxima with a truck. The car will probably have to be scrapped and I am sure I will get ripped off to get rid of it just like I was getting it home yesterday. I was charged $338 to get from the freeway about 45 miles from home to home and for there return trip back to there station.
04-17-2009, 09:16 AM
#29
I would have to disagree with this, I have almost 230,000 on my car and I've put almost 100,000 on it since I bought it in 2001. This year I replaced the suspension and had the transmission rebuilt but until that I had absolutely no issues with the car, it's been much more reliable than any cars owned by anyone I know. In my experience these are very reliable cars when properly maintained.
04-17-2009, 12:12 PM
#30
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I would have to disagree with this, I have almost 230,000 on my car and I've put almost 100,000 on it since I bought it in 2001. This year I replaced the suspension and had the transmission rebuilt but until that I had absolutely no issues with the car, it's been much more reliable than any cars owned by anyone I know. In my experience these are very reliable cars when properly maintained.
04-17-2009, 12:21 PM
#31
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Correction on dates. Belt was done in early 2005, cooling and charging system and battery in mid 2006 about 2 months apart and since I have moved to Wa. the crossover pipe cracked open a seat back frame broke as well as other annoyances and now the timing belt. Every time I move to a new climate something goes wrong. I am fighting a lost cause and I just needed it just for about 5 more months to travel to central U.S. to do some aircraft work that would have paid me about $5800 a month. I would have been able to get another car like an intrepid that has more room for traveling to work and perhaps replace the maxima with a truck. The car will probably have to be scrapped and I am sure I will get ripped off to get rid of it just like I was getting it home yesterday. I was charged $338 to get from the freeway about 45 miles from home to home and for there return trip back to there station.
04-17-2009, 12:37 PM
#32
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AAA is good but over the last 6 years I have only had to tow one vehicle. There just wasn't enough worry to warrant the cost.
04-17-2009, 12:39 PM
#33
so you can ask a friend that has AAA to get your car towed.
04-17-2009, 03:03 PM
#34
Just .02 cents regarding holding the mechanic shop liable.
I had a personal experience with this on my turbo. Paid a guy to put it together who had Nissan certifications. I had little time and insufficient tools to complete some of the work like installing the pistons. Long story short, he installed the timing belt tensioner spring wrong and rotated the pulley backward which resulted in the tensioner putting pressure on the belt higher up from the crank. The nut was also insufficiently tightened and came loose, belt slipped, blam.
I took it apart, took pictures, and found everything in place other than the loose tensioner and that it was wrongly installed. I sued this guy in court, representing myself and articulated my case in front of the judge (Despite Greeny's position I can't fix a bologny sandwich!). Even though this other guy is a "certified mech," I won the case hands down. To summerize, you MUST inspect the engine to determine what happened. If the belt, tensioner, tensioner spring, tensioner nut is tight, woodruff key on crank....is all intact, then you need to evaluate what cuased it to slip....loose tensioner nut for example.
However, if the belt, woodruff key, or even the tensioner spring broke, you will have no leg to stand on becuase they will argue this was a mechanical failure and not the result of any neglegance. Sad, but I agree. Sueing offers no immediate fix, but I advocate people who feel and have evidence they were wronged, to stand up for themselves and hold others accountable.
I never saw a dime from this guy, but I have complete satisfaction in proving my case against this idiot. If I find out where he is now working, I'll take him back to court!
I had a personal experience with this on my turbo. Paid a guy to put it together who had Nissan certifications. I had little time and insufficient tools to complete some of the work like installing the pistons. Long story short, he installed the timing belt tensioner spring wrong and rotated the pulley backward which resulted in the tensioner putting pressure on the belt higher up from the crank. The nut was also insufficiently tightened and came loose, belt slipped, blam.
I took it apart, took pictures, and found everything in place other than the loose tensioner and that it was wrongly installed. I sued this guy in court, representing myself and articulated my case in front of the judge (Despite Greeny's position I can't fix a bologny sandwich!). Even though this other guy is a "certified mech," I won the case hands down. To summerize, you MUST inspect the engine to determine what happened. If the belt, tensioner, tensioner spring, tensioner nut is tight, woodruff key on crank....is all intact, then you need to evaluate what cuased it to slip....loose tensioner nut for example.
However, if the belt, woodruff key, or even the tensioner spring broke, you will have no leg to stand on becuase they will argue this was a mechanical failure and not the result of any neglegance. Sad, but I agree. Sueing offers no immediate fix, but I advocate people who feel and have evidence they were wronged, to stand up for themselves and hold others accountable.
I never saw a dime from this guy, but I have complete satisfaction in proving my case against this idiot. If I find out where he is now working, I'll take him back to court!
04-17-2009, 03:25 PM
#35
Stinks for the OP, but, seriously, I've never understood the quickness with which people "discard" cars - ESPECIALLY cars as common as 3rd gen Maxima's (especially VGs) where good used replacement parts for are plentiful for the most part. Surely a VG engine can be had for a couple hundred dollars at most. If you find a good running VG engine, replace all the belts, seals, etc. before putting it in, there's no reason it can't last years and years..
[rant]At 250,000 miles my '89 Civic blew an oil seal so I took that as a jump-start to spending this past winter completely rebuilding the Civic About a year previously, I repainted it with stock color base/clear. New carpet, new glass, etc. It's essentially a brand new car, and only cost me a few thousand dollars total. I would drive it cross-country in a heartbeat.
Now, which would I rather have - a car payment, or an essentially "new" old car that only cost me a few thousand dollars total? I'll take the latter.[/rant]
[rant]At 250,000 miles my '89 Civic blew an oil seal so I took that as a jump-start to spending this past winter completely rebuilding the Civic About a year previously, I repainted it with stock color base/clear. New carpet, new glass, etc. It's essentially a brand new car, and only cost me a few thousand dollars total. I would drive it cross-country in a heartbeat.
Now, which would I rather have - a car payment, or an essentially "new" old car that only cost me a few thousand dollars total? I'll take the latter.[/rant]
04-17-2009, 08:31 PM
#36
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The problem for the OP is that, even for $600 if he were to have it all fixed up, how does he commute 60 miles for work until then without another car at his disposal? Sounds like he has more immediate need for that $600 bucks.
I say pick up a new car (read: ****box to get me by for 5 months) for $600... on the condition that the dealer you buy it from hauls your old car off. Two problems solved.
I say pick up a new car (read: ****box to get me by for 5 months) for $600... on the condition that the dealer you buy it from hauls your old car off. Two problems solved.
04-17-2009, 08:56 PM
#37
The problem for the OP is that, even for $600 if he were to have it all fixed up, how does he commute 60 miles for work until then without another car at his disposal? Sounds like he has more immediate need for that $600 bucks.
I say pick up a new car (read: ****box to get me by for 5 months) for $600... on the condition that the dealer you buy it from hauls your old car off. Two problems solved.
I say pick up a new car (read: ****box to get me by for 5 months) for $600... on the condition that the dealer you buy it from hauls your old car off. Two problems solved.
04-17-2009, 09:02 PM
#38
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Well I figured if he just needs to get by for 5 months, what does he want with 2 ****boxes? lol. I figured 1 was plenty. And also he wouldn't have the hassle of having to deal with mechanics. Just cut the loss and move on.
04-17-2009, 11:27 PM
#40
I'm aware of that GREENY, I would do it by hand to minimized the already damaged valves since it's a interference engine. I hope he didn't damage anything else the rods and crank usually don't break or bend due to broken timing belts.