1993-VG30E-GXE

Wondering if the VG starts knocking (detonation) in a bad way, does the engine check light immediately come on?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

That probably means something else is wrong.

IIRC, our obd-zero computers don't trigger a CEL when the knock sensor is freaking out. It's probably triggering on a cylinder misfire or other easily-triggerable problem.

1993-VG30E-GXE

Matt, if the timing is improperly set and looking at the crank pulley with the timing light, and the notches in the pulley are way off to the RIGHT side of the arrow, is this a scenario where I can detonate the engine. It ran like that for 20 min, because the problem is, I was by myself, and I immediately had to rev the car to 2000 RPM to break in the new camshaft and lifters, so I couldn't go check the timing light because I was sitting in the car.

Note that when I fired the car up, it felt like it was going to stall. Putting the foot on the gas and going to the 2000RPM stopped the stalling. After the 20 min, I looked at the exhaust manfold to heade piper flange on the RH side, and it was glowing red.

Just curious if this scenario can induce the detonation.

1993-VG30E-GXE

By the way i'll add that the engine light never did come on. I'm just wondering if the camshaft break-in I did, was killing the engine for that 20 min.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

if i were you i would have marked the disty with a marker before taking it apart (engine at tdc the same as when you put the tbelt on), then put it back in the way it came out so the timing would be the same or close. Having the timing way way off like that (to the right = advanced) could have caused it to detonate. Though more likely under load than free-revving. i would think you would have heard detonation if it had in fact done so. set the timing right and pray everything is OK.

1993-VG30E-GXE

OK thanks, here's a message I wrote to someone, i'll post it for you, so you can suggest if I need to go in and adjust the timing belt:

OK, let me explain what happened. And tell me what to do. I turned the car on after overhaul, and I immediately needed to break in the new camshaft and new lifters for 20 min at 2000 RPM.

Once I started the car, there was an insane exhaust sound like a leaking manifold, like the car was coughing. It seemed slow like it was going to stall then I hit the gas hard and went to the 2000 RPM, and held it there varying it for 20 min. Insane smoke was coming out but my guess is this was oil that was all over the block and was just burning off after the overhaul. There was also a strange rattling or spinning sound - that went away after the 10 min mark. The valves had quite a bit of oil in them when I was assembling, and the pistons were well oiled during assembly.

Then I looked at the exhaust manifold to header pipe flange and it was glowing red, it was SO HOT (after this 20 min). Take foot off gas, it would do the coughing thing again, and almost stall. Coolant gauge never went into red. Radiator fan was working and would turn on and off on it's own.

Smoke started to calm down after 20 min until now it's gone completely.

Put the timing light on it next try and there is an arrow like where your tab is above in the photo with the lines in it, it's just an arrow, and those lines that indicate the degrees are on the pulley. The lines on the pulley were WAY OFF to the right side, almost 45 degree off.

I started to turn the distributor AGAINST the direction of the rotor spinning, which means I turned the distributor CLOCKWISE as the rotor turns COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. I turned it all the way to the end of the range and it brought the timing marks within the arrow but not to the center (15 degree BTDC + or - 2 degree is what the manual says for timing) I got it to like 5 degree at the end of the range. So then I lifted up the distributor and jumped 1 tooth by turning it CLOCKWISE. Now I swung it to the other end of the range where the hold down bolt is, and it's close but on the other side, so it's sitting at +25 degrees right now at that maximum of the range. The car sounds WAY smoother and that strange exhaust noise is gone. However, the radiator last night started to get steamy and it smelt like coolant was evaporating and I saw liquid on the bottom of the radiator. I turned the car off. Coolant gauge never moved off of center.

So as you can see, I can't get it to 15 degrees because 15 is in the MIDDLE of the two distributor teeth.

Now here's the messed up thing. I SUSPECT the LH camshaft pulley (distributor is on LH side too) is off by 1 tooth at the timing mark. I couldn't get it to line up when installing the belt no matter what, the dot on the pulley was either to the left of the mark or the right of the mark on the timing cover. I installed the pulley with the dot to the LEFT of the mark on the rear cover. In other words, it was half a tooth off on either side.

QUESTIONS:
a) Could this POTENTIAL 1 tooth off on the timing belt cause the scenario where I can't get the distributor to line up to 15 degree BTDC?

b) In the initial scenario, did I detonate the engine if those timing marks were down to the RIGHT side in your photo. In other words, I was likely NEGATIVE degrees, as when I rotate the distributor CLOCKWISE, the timing marks on the right would move TOWARDS the arrow.

Now I notice at +25 degrees the idle speed seems HIGHER at 1000 RPM. It sounds smooth but it's higher.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well... also keep in mind that the timing advances as RPM increases. that's normal. if you just put a light on my car, if i revved it from idle, the timing would advance. also the belts don't always line up 100% perfect.. sometimes it looks a half tooth off. line up the LH cam sprocket with the mark on the rear cover (and the proper mark on the belt) then line the other sprocket marks with the other 2 marks on the belt. the OEM belts are marked off in such a way as to line it up even if the marks on the oil pump and rear cover are not precise enough.

1993-VG30E-GXE

Problem is this mitsuboshi belt has no markings on it - it's just black all the way around.

So do you think this 1 tooth off scenario could be the cause of me not being able to get the timing light thing to line up. It seems like 15 is between the camshaft gear teeth. I'll add this. crank sprocket dot lined up. RH cam dot appeared slightly to the RIGHT of the timing cover dot. LH cam sprocket dot appeared slightly to the LEFT of the timing cover dot. I put it on the left side because it seemed like if I put it on the right side of the dot, it would be FURTHER from the dot.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

then you should have bought an OEM belt, and all your troubles would float away. i think a few of us said this a few months ago, and you said something like "naw, it'll be alright".......... famous last words. now you might have problems because of it.

1993-VG30E-GXE

Caped your hilarious - I notice you have tendency to try and blame something when you don't have an answer

Just so you know - the markings on the belt would have nothing to do with lining up the camshaft gears to the dots on the rear cover. If the tooth is half off on either side, then the lines won't do anything for you. The lines only prevent the number of belt teeth to be off BETWEEN pullies.

So much for troubles floating away

I think I may have it figured out. I called 4 different machinists and got some different suggestions.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

try again, ... what the **** do you think a timing belt is for anyways? to line stuff up with a metal plate? nope. the belt's purpose is to keep a uniform number of teeth between pullies.. that's how the engine keeps time. so the dots on the rear cover don't matter for ****. All that matters is that the dots on the sprockets have the right number of teeth between them, and that's exactly what a striped belt ensures. I bet you anything I could time a VG engine with no rear cover whatsoever, and it would be exactly in time, as long as i have an OEM belt to put on. The dots on the cover are just there to eyeball it. They are not God. They are a half tooth off for a reason... so you can line the belt up with a little bit of slack in it, so the belt is easier to put on, then once you tighten the tensioner it takes up that little bit of slack, and one or the other cam appears to be off a half-tooth.

these pics show a normal post-tensioning scenario.

1993-VG30E-GXE

Caped you need to relax. Your embarassing yourself again. No offense, but have you even done a major overhaul on the VG30E before? You seem to be so sure of yourself and you get grossly offended when you don't have the answer.

>that's how the engine keeps time. so the dots on the rear cover don't matter for >****. All that matters is that the dots on the sprockets have the right number of >teeth between them

So I guess it doesn't matter where the knock pin is right? As long as the # of teeth are correct.

I can honestly see that your know some stuff, and other stuff you have zero clue what your talking about - and when you don't know you get all upset and huffy about it.

1993-VG30E-GXE

This thread is done, as once again you've exploded on yourself. I'll move on.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

excuse me... did i SAY that the knock pins don't matter? no. I said the dots on the METAL PLATE (and last time i checked, "metal plate" does not = "sprocket", and "dots on metal plate" does not = "knock pins"). the knock pin aligns the sprocket relative to the cam itself. so of course that has to be in the right spot. that's what determines where the dot on the sprocket is relative to the cam lobes, and then there's the woodruff key on the little sprocket on the crank. But the only thing that matters is that the number of teeth between all 3 dots on the pulleys is correct. Obviously if you swap the 2 cam sprockets (or use 2 RH sprockets or 2 LH sprockets), one or both of your cams will be catastrophically out of time and you can kiss your motor goodbye..... You did put the right sprocket on the right cam right (when facing the motor, the "L" cam gear should be on your right)? anyhow, assuming you put the right sprocket on the right cam, the only thing that matters is the sprocket's dots and the # of teeth in between. The dots on the oil pump and metal plate are simply "rough guides". ie you line the dots up to the plate, then slip the (oem with lines) belt over top of it (lined up with the dots) but the second you tension it, the belt will stretch and de-slack and the plate's dots are irrelevant.

and frankly, i've timed 2 VG engines with no problems. You've timed 1 and think you have a problem. So i'm 2 ahead of you. And btw i don't have to know how to overhaul an engine to know how to properly install a timing belt and distributor. That's like saying you need to know how to do brain surgery in order to be able to set a broken bone.

Point is, you simply don't know how to admit that every single member who has given you advice thus far is smarter than you are even capable of being, as evidenced by the fact that you are the one who keeps having problems with your car, not us.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

wonderful. have fun talking to your machinists who will either tell you the same thing i told you, or tell you that you need to fix something that you don't (since they aren't as familiar with the VG as I am), or blame "defective parts" for your problems, like you always do.

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

I'm here for the gangbang.

Mysticcal

EVERYBODY INTO THE PILE!

Garf

iTrader: (1)

oh lordy, haha another one of these threads
no need to be hostile guys, i think we shouldn't have direct "attacks" on other .orgers doesn't seem right, if you don't appreciate someone's advice, then thank them for their input, ignore it, and move on.
If a mechanic tells you differently from an org member about your car, it is your own judgement call to decide who you think is giving you the best advice, and choose your course of action.

Gunther

The gossip and drama loving 16 year old girl inside me gets excited every time I see a post by you