ever since I heard about it, I wanted a vg33e in my car. never had the money to do it.

my car has exceeded 250 thousand miles, and it is getting tired. I have decided to get a new engine, and I feel I am (or will be when the time comes in spring) in a position to really get to business.

unfortunately, there are too many questions I need answered, before I really give it a shot (the max, after all is my only car, and a motorcycle doesn't offer much protection from the elements).

it seems a few people have done it, but it's like, once it's done, that's it, no further info.

a few for starters:
1) are the vg33e and vg30e pretty much the same, aside from heads, pistons and block, correct? just swap the lower end internals (crank, oil pump/pickup/pan, water pump, etc, etc.), and enjoy? everything I have found says 'it should'. but nothing, really, that says 'it will'.

2) will the vg33e work with stock ecu? all the electronics should be the same, providing they can be swappd over, but I am concerned the larger bore and larger injectors will make stuff act weird, and not allow it to run correctly. I am thinking it will be fine (due to AFR), but want to ask to be sure.

sorry for the nubish sounding questions, but these are questions that, so far, have been half answered. I have spent countless hours searching, looking, browsing forums (including this one), FSMs, and enthusiast sites for answers, but haven't come to a complete one, yet.
Hope you guys can help.

 

injectors are probably different.. you might want to get nistune on your stock ECU like maxpwer has and a wideband monitor to tune it. i know people do the vg33 swap on z31's, but then again people also do smallblock chevy swaps on the z31 cuz it's got a little less spatial constraints compared to the FWD platform the maxima uses. and just either run the vg33 pathy intake like goon started to do, or reattach the maxima's intake and stuff (if it will fit )

 

if you are really going to do some blast then why not go for VG33ER?. I am sure if i was going to put that much of time and money into swapping something different i would go for that...just my opinion.....

edit: u might need a customized hood tho.

There is my friend who owns Motor-sports shop and he specialize in Nissan cars...i would ask him for this swap and get some opinions and will let u know if i find something...

 

I remember reading a while ago about this but it would be considering a 3.4 or something? I believe Q45 pistons replaced the stock 3.0/3.3 pistons as well.. I really wanted to do that considering people were talking about it yielding close to 250 hp iirc. Its an interesting idea and if this were to work, I think a VE5 trans would put that power down nicely too

 

working on it.

 

supercharging would be neat, but not something I am sure I want, nor am I sure it would fit; the sc belt looks like it wouldn't clear the fender and various whatnots in the way.
not sure, but I think the sc has the same height as a standard intake (could easily be mistaken).

 

http://nissannut.com/maintenance/vg33e_upgrade/

http://www.nissanoffroad.net/message...=7354.msg90732

http://forum.vgpowered.com/articles/...art-8-headwork

absolutely tons of info.

 

Thank you for the links, but they are always about rwd conversions. granted, there aren't many fwd/vg cars that could use an upgrade. Occasionally, the engines come from a quest or a villager (fwd), but I am not sure how well they would work with a Maxima.

also, pretty much every one I have read about, they don't talk about electronics, and what mods (if any) are needed to make them run (when they do, it's usually questions, like mine, with no answers).

If anyone feels I have missed something, please feel free to post it. I would rather re- read, stuff, and read more stuff, and be able to do this, than chicken out, because I am not sure. as long as I am doing something for this project, I am not quite ready to give up.

_______
btw, caped, I am considering nistune, anyway, as a turbo is in the future plans, at this time. need to check out the options, and whatnot.

the intake, afaik, Goon was (and is) the only one who has tried it, and he said it would fit, fine. If I get a complete motor, it'll probably go in, as well (barring some bs about not working with whatever)

 

Forgive my noobish comment/question, but doesn't the vg33e "only" put down 170ish hp or something like that?

 

yeah, according to what i have read. but it's also +20tq, and a "new for me" motor. so compared to simply rebuilding, an upgrade will be nice.
and the vg33 heads are supposed to flow better, stock vs. stock.

 

I think the reason to get a VG33E to swap in instead of just another VG30E is to take advantage of the thicker piston walls for boring out and/or adding FI. I know it has been shown that you can make it 3.4L w/ the Q45 pistons. I think someone else was talking about the possibility of boring all the way out to 3.6-3.8L. I'm not sure about that. Probably would have to have custom pistons made and maybe sleeving. Anyway, there was a guy on here a couple years ago who was selling a VG33E that was swapped into a 3rd gen Maxima. Here is the text and pics from a PM I had from him about it.

Nismosleeper:
"On the vg33e bit, no, I paid a friend 400, and told her exactly what to do to make it work. I didn't figure out the right way to route the belts though. It runs like crap now. The engine is out of a 1997 QX4.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7591/mvc006frv9.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3812/mvc002f2we.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8886/mvc001f4ha.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3693/mvc004f7hj.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2162/mvc003f8hw.jpg"

I think there were issues about how the accessory belts lined up differently with a FWD application since all VG33E engines are originally from RWD applications.

I think Matt93SE or someone like that was also talking a while ago about how on the RWD VG33E there was a coolant passage that was not used but had to be opened up to use in a FWD application, or something like that. Sorry for not remembering more details. I think it must be there somewhere on the .org. I'll search when I get more time.

Good luck! I'm thinking of this when/if my engine goes, but that may not be for a while since I'm still at only 94k on an '89. Of course, I may sell it before then too or go w/ a VQ35 swap.

Hope this helped.
-Mark

 

li'l bit. looking at the pics (last link, specifically), tho, not everything was swapped. FE: oil filter is in front of the engine, where the alty should be, alty where the a/c compressor should be, etc.. also, i don't think that looks like my crank pulley. I don't recall a v-belt inside there.

edit: glad to see I'm not the only nut on here who wants to try this.

 

the one link shows how the block is just about universal to the fwd 33 and fwd 30. as far as electronics go nistune the vg30 ecu and use the harness.

but these links show how you can swap the heads and cams. i would use the 30 heads as the intake flows smoother and the max cams. the max cams have the same profile as the 87 to 89 vg30e(t). personaly i would grab a set of cams from earlier vg30et engines as they have a longer duration in the lobs.

also if you dont go turbo i would suggest bumping compression since the 33 has slightly lower compression.

 

The VG33 you want is the one from a 98-01 nissan quest as it is FWD. Now you might still have the problems with the accessories lining up if you use ur 3rd gen stuff.

 

meh... it's non interference, at the cost of some performance. bigger cams and q45 pistons could fix that tho.

or at the very least, swap vg33 pathfinder heads onto it.

 

I tried finding someone who actually did it, and could never find someone. 'People' said it can be done, but could never find someone who did it on the 3rd gen, so I scrapped the project. If your brave, go for it, but it's going to cost quite a bit. It would be an amazing accomplishment. I read somewhere that someone in South America completed it. But who knows if it was on the J30 chassis.

The whole point of it is to get the 'new' heads in my opinon, as the VG30 heads are all severly worn now. Even if you overhaul, your still using the old cam journals. The 'newest' heads are on the 2004 Xterra. I found some from an accident or something, at a JY in Ontario, but never bought them. Anything older than 2004, I wouldn't bother - me personally. Too much effort.

If you can't do the 33 heads then it's probably not worth the effort in my opinon. You'll likely need a custom exhaust system with the 33 heads,if you did try to do it. Even if you could use the exhaust manifolds from the J30, your probably going to get clearance issues with the M10 hex nuts. I guess you could use heli-coils and maybe put in M8 studs, not sure if it would line up though, and the upgrade was the M10 studs so no more snapping (i would hope). Cast Iron exhaust manifolds too I think - big bonus.

 

after being on here for almost 3 years and seeing countless threads involving cams and heads and stuff i have literally NEVER seen anyone cite that as being a problem, except you. I therefore doubt that it's a problem at all, seeing as how nobody on here (or the z31 forum i go on) has ever said anything about "needing new heads b/c the cam bearing journals are too worn".

Imo it's all about teh cubes (and how many more of them you can choose to add by boring it out more)

 

I think that's wishful thinking, to think that the cylinder heads take no wear in a 16 yr old car. Fact is, that is where the bulk of the wear is, bottom end too, but the heads take a beating more so. The cylinder heads are not a problem, but they do wear. So if your going to go even further to 'blueprint' a new engine, I would replace the heads with new ones, instead of re-using the old heads like I did. You could get away with a valve job on the old heads, but it's probably cheaper to find the Xterra heads, they don't go for much.

You don't need to replace the heads if the bearing journals are moderately worn within spec, but because there are no inserts there, when they start to wear like my LH one did, there's nothing you can do about it, if it's way out. You should replace the head if the clearance is excessive though, outside of spec, or any single correction by the machinist (valve job) is way more costly than the replacement. Going to all that work to completely build an engine, don't skimp on a hundred bucks or two hundred bucks for new heads.

In the 3 yrs you've been on this site, there probably were only a handful of people who had every single inspection tool to measure the heads to confirm the dimensions, and to make a judgement call if it should be replaced or not. Of those people, I would bet most were overhauling a DOHC, as that is really what the maxima was about - not the cheezy VG family car.

Don't bore anything that's nonsense. Just build a basic engine that will work, and won't blow up on you and your wallet. The VGs were built so well, you'll likely find next to no ridge on the core (of course if it was taken care of).

Ben, have you budget for all the inpsection tools to confirm the used parts that you'll be sourcing? If you need a list for the VG let me know, i'll find it on my HD and post it.

 

what I got out of that part was "teh newer, teh bettar!"
I took the rest as exaggeration.


hehe... cubies... I hate working in an office. :sigh:

 

I'll probably be buying a long block, or complete engine (only about $650, iirc, on ebay, with shipping. can't check, I am at work, and ebay is blocked. fml)

after that, I plan on having an engine shop inspect and replace for worn parts.
depending on when it happens ($$$), a li'l boring may happen, since the block is thicker, .030 over.

 

i have only heard of the early vgs having some oiling issues under heavy boost, spinning bearings and such but nothing on th 86 ang up blocks. on a test head i ripper off a dead 94 gxe the journals where damn near perfect! matched up to the FSM, looked like they where just machined.

now my brother 1985/6/7ish 325i was a much different story, the journals showed some tremendous wear @ 120,000 miles

 

If you are going to freshen up a VG30/VG33, it would be a great time to put in cams. Also I'd try to get the newest VG33 you can, because generally the newer motors have upgrades in them that the old ones don't. IIRC years ago I checked the part numbers for IM and exh mani gaskets between VG30/VG33 and they were the same. That tells me that your VG30 manifolds will bolt onto them, now if the VG33 uses bigger studs then you probably have to drill the 30's flange to the bigger size.

While the engine is apart I recommend new rings, bearings, seals, T belt+ten, water pump and cleaning the IM. This is a great time to port the heads and get a multi angle valve job. However if on a budget focus more on the valve job as it will make great power.

 

Don't forget to replace ALL the lifters too.

Nismo, from what I found, some of the part codes were the same in FAST, but I called up courtesy, and they said even though the part codes were the same, the underlying part numbers were different. Reason being, I came so close to seeing that it was reality when so many things were similar (started getting excited about the whole idea). For instance, I think the lifters were the same as the 2004 Xterra lifters. The intake Manifold and Exhaust manifold gaskets are different, but again they may have the same part code.

I'm curious, Ben, from all your research so far, have you found someone who actually got one running, and it stayed running - 33E heads on the VG30E block?

mrkanda, did you remember the guys User ID? I'd like to see pictures of his exhaust, how he did it. Now your getting me tempted to try this myself this summer. At the very least I could start hunting for those cylinder heads, then some yr try and do it.

Re: The photos above
The alternator issue could be solved by just grinding the AC Compressor mounting bracket, and possibly building up the other side with washers?

 

Now I get it, I missed that detail. You guys are talking about putting the whole thing in, block too (VG33E). I didn't read up on that. Now thinking back, I remember what I was trying was something different. Putting the 33E heads on the 30E block, because I confirmed my block was in good condition, I wanted to salvage the block but put new heads on.

Any how, do post photos if you actually do the project next yr, and good luck with it.

 

if you own the car for a long time and use the best oil changed on time and never rag it when it's not warmed up you will fare alot better than the "average" engine tho. and why not bore it? at least for q45 pistons' sake.. bump in compression is the main reason, but since it is too big to fit you have to bore it to get in there. big cams like higher compression. stage 2 JWT cams, vg33+q45 pistons, and nistune would be pretty good.

 

It's true, your right, but there's so many times in the winter, when I can't let it sit and warm up, because there's no time to wait. I guess it's planning ahead, and I try to do it all the time, but it's not always possible. Only reason I say not bore it, is because of the associated cost. As soon as you re-bore it, you need new pistons...as soon as you need new pistons you need to pay for the rod install. I guess it could be sleeved, but the shops I dealt with say they usually don't sleeve them..don't know why.

Like if his original block is fine, I would just use that, and just get it honed (not precision honed though). For me, it's the cost. These 3rd gens are insanely expensive at a point to keep on the road just with the OEM replacement stuff (not motor related), it just doesn't make sense in my opinon, unless you are extremely dedicated and want this to be a restored classic car that you'll keep forever or something, that's another story.

All the stuff you mention above is great stuff, it's high end, it's performance, but in a recession I personally wouldn't touch it. Nobody knows what lies ahead.

And Ben, I say you start slowly buying the parts over the winter, don't do what I did, by getting it on the stand, then buying the parts, since you are buying the block ahead of time, you can do the sizing yourself. I wouldn't let a machine shop build your engine for you, and they won't do inspections for you unless you pay them to do it. It takes to long. And they'll get pissed if you try and hand them the FSM to document the inspections, they don't care about measuring, because they want to do the machining and get paid.

Do it yourself, you'll do a much more precise job. Just phone them up and say you need X amount of machining and how much, take the parts to them, pick them back up, and build yourself, you'll save alot of money too. And if your sourcing the block yourself, make sure to get it dipped in the caustic soda. I got scammed and mine never got the caustic, it was just heated solvent (in the old hot tank) when I asked one of the workers when the owner was gone for a second. If using a used block, the ONLY way to clean the old crusty oil in the galleries is with the caustic soda, they can't use the bead blaster because the ***** could get stuck in the galleries. And they won't open the galleries to clean it with a rifle brush, because the moronic design on the VG block, there's no allen key slots to remove the gallery plugs like on the Ford and Chevy blocks. I think they are pressed in or something, and the shops said they won't touch them. The Kwik-Way dishwasher type jet cleaner won't do anything for the galleries.

Buying an engine built by someone else, not built new in the Nissan Factory is risky business. Buying a JDM is risky business. Both are risky if you want to keep your 3rd gen forever, or you don't want to be un-expectedly doing a re&re a second time because the thing fails. The tools expense for the actual building (inspection tools) is not that much at all (can all be bought at KBC for cheap, less than 200 bucks maybe), I have a list. You'll probably have all the other tools by now. You don't need the bore gauge. If the ridge is nothing (finger nail test), the taper will be insignificant. If the bearings didn't spin (rod & main), no need to check with bore gauge. The cam journals can be checked with snap gauges. The piston-to-bore clearance can be checked with snap gauges. Point is theres a cheap way to do it and only one right way.

I'm only trying to convince you to do it yourself because it's much more fun (plus you'll know it works if you follow the FSM).

 

I think the most important thing that's being overlooked is the engine mount locations when comparing the RWD VG30 to the FWD VG30... The VQ's ( FWD & RWD platforms) aren't the same and I'm sure the VG's are different between the two platforms.... For those curious of the reason to go with a VG33 was due to the additional cylinder wall thickness that could accept a Q45 piston overbore which was beyond the limits of a VG30!

 

I don't believe mounts are an issue, as the z31 guys ****** our engines, all the time. it may be more work for them (probably less work than this project) to convert to rwd, but the fact nissan made our cars four more years after the z31 means newer engines, and the mass production means easily sourced, locally.

 

poppycock! the VG has no such failures! only the VQ was engineered with enough fail to have the mount locations different for FWD and RWD form! But a VG is a VG is a VG (minus the quest which is non-interference at the expense of decreased compression and cam profile). Hundreds of z31 engines have been put in 3rd gens and vice versa! Only thing you gotta do is swap the dipstick location and plug the unused hole and you're good to go! Which is what I was going to do....... except I changed my mind and am going for something a little less conventional

 

well that and all 3rd gen VG maximas are w-block, and nissan sells a spacer to use an a/b block pulley on a w-block crank... advantage of the w-block is fully floating wrist pins. older z31 cams (84-early 87) have more duration that stock maxima cams tho, and are a direct fit.

 

So, to take this further, I have a strong lead locally who has a VG33E engine from a 2002 Xterra that he wants to get rid of. The catch is that the crank is cracked from some mechanic putting an axle seal on top of another axle seal and having it rub against the crank for a while. Anyway, looks like he is willing to let it go for cheap and the heads are already redone and off the block. So, question is, is it worth getting and how much is a new crank or can I swap in a stronger crank from some other engine like the VG30DE, etc.?

 

What are you talking about failures to me? My statement had nothing to do with failures...it was based on possible engine mt location which is straight now, and cylinder overbbore limits......What R U talking about...Caped?

 

i regard the fact that the VQ has different blocks for FWD and RWD as a failure, since it reduces interchangeability. the VG block is interswappable regardless of its source or destination. that is a win.

 

I have been looking at many different forums and have found that the mounting points are all the same and into the transmission is also a "fits right in" situation. I have a 1993 Maxima and I broke a piston what would I need to do in order to put a Vg33e in place of my broken Vg30e? and sorry if I sound noobish, just trying to learn.

 

ok, after reading half of this I gave up realizing it was an old post and jumped to the bottom so sorry if repeat anything.

-The VG, unlike many engines work in FWD, RWD and 4WD applications. The things to remember are first off oil pan will likely need to be changed to fit your crossmember
-If you change the crank you need to change the oil pump.
-Yes the Q45 pistons will fit and make it a VG34, the 3.3 can be bored up to a 3.8 at extremes.
-You can attached any VG SOHC heads to the block so a common upgrade are Z31 Turbo heads. (DOHC VG heads do not fit such as Z32 TT heads.)
-The crank uses round tooth design on the VG33 and depending on the year of your maxima your cams will use square tooth, same goes for Z31 Turbo heads.
-Only ECU issue would be what type of injectors and what type of O2 sensors are used, but that's not too difficult to work around.
-Yes they made a VG33ER (supercharged from the factory) but you'll want to grab the ECU if you for that.

I will be grabbing a VG33 myself to build a VG34ET once I get a deal on the 33 but I am doing it so I can have think enough cylinder walls to boost it to hell and back so no boring for me. All in all I'd say do it but keep in mind that torque will be hell on your transmission and axles as you modify it to gain power. The Max trans is not designed to hold up to that kind of abuse, and once you modify it to be able to it won't take long before your axles hate you. So if modifying be prepared to spend a lot more money than just the engine. Hell I'd start with the axles and trans before the engine if it were me.

PS Master how did you break that piston? Replacing the piston should be cheaper than doing that whole swap. I wouldn't do the swap unless you are planning on replacing the engine anyway or are trying to upgrade for power. That being said in your case I'd just repair the piston and fix whatever caused you to break that piston, which includes bad tuning, driver error or poor maint. Stating those as common reasons for broken piston, not sure about yours.

 

actually the 94 VG maximas had round tooth belts.

and honestly... people are pushing 350WHP+ through stock manual trannies and axles... no real problem there. 3.3L n/a doesn't make THAT much torque... maybe 200ish lb/ft... still less than the VQ30DE which uses the same tranny internals as the VG/VE minus a few application-specific adaptations.

but i think there is some amount of difference concerning the crank's front end, and the oil pump, and oil pickups... i read somthing on a z31 site about them being different from the VG30 vs VG33.

 

yep, whatever you use for crank you need to use matching oil pump and pick up.

I know the Maxima tranny can hold the VG33 as it is, I just meant for modifying it, sorry for the lack of explanation. The VG33 is capable of some serious power and the way it's designed you get great low end torque, so building a 300HP engine might not be a problem normally but the VG33 being at 300HP will have more torque, and the torque is what really damages the tranny and axles more than the HP. I just would have assumed that someone going through that swap would not be leaving it as a stock application.

I did say depending on the year maxima about square tooth I will need to pick up some Maxima round tooth cam gears once I do get around to picking up my 33.

An example of a well built VG33 is Steve Mitchells Z31, not built for most HP available but for very specific drivability and reliability and still produces 577RWHP and 598TQ!! His was one of the first VG33 builds and still to this day I think one of the most thought out ones. He now runs M-Workz in Ca and that car last I saw it was for sale for $25,000. Here's a decent writeup from Nissan Sport before when it was Sport Z, but gives a fair bit of detail on his build. 2001 Sport Z

 

seriously? 600hp on a 84-85 body? fail for restricting tire width! that's exactly why i got an 86 this time around! i need to find that vg33 swap thread i found a while back... i want to do a vg33 on mine but i'm not sure how much hassle it is with the oil pump or oil pickup and pulleys and stuff.

 

it's not really, if you maintain the original crank you can use the original oil pump, gear and pickup, but with turbo heads they use square tooth cam gears so you can get cam gears from a 94 max round tooth and problem solved. It's become a rather common swap and there are tons of writeups on it. You will need a turbo oil pan to fit the cross member though.
More power has been delivered out of the Z31 chassis, one guy with a supra motor for example, 1sickZ who was doing 1/4 mile's trapping at 143 MPH (though due to family emergencies he parted his out recently), but I think steve mitchells is an example of building a reliable high HP engine.
My point being the VG33 can be a potent base to build on and if someone is going to do an engine swap I'd assume it's to modify and if you start getting into it, tranny and axles may not hold up.

 

turbo oil pan? why wouldn't an n/a oil pan work?

and also.. the axles don't really care how much torque the engine makes.. the tranny does, but the axles don't. because all the gearig has been taken care of already by the time the time the power gets to the axles, so whether it's a 1.7L motor making 90 lb/ft @ 4000rpm or a 3.3L motor making 180 lb/ft @ 2000rpm, the axles will feel that just the same because of the gearing difference.