go_speed_go

I own a '93 SE 5sp with 135K miles that's had the VTC tick for a little over year. A few weeks ago, along with the RPM dependant tick, another higher pitched, non-rpm-related sound appeared. I figured it was the second VTC getting ready to croak so I thought nothing of it. After 2 weeks, the wife found it annoying enough that it was time for the VTC disable.

My mechanic performed the disable, but the sounds didn't go away. He though it might be a chain tensioner, but wouldn't know for sure until he started opening it up. Being an "interferance motor", I had no desire to risk losing a chain, so I left the car with him and waited for the official diagnosis. After digging into the motor, it turned out that the one failed VTC's internals had literally broken into pieces. He said I was VERY lucky none of the pieces made it into the chains. If they had, the motor would have been bye-bye.

I had read that most of the time when the VTC fails, it's no big deal, but a small percentage of the time it can cause catastrophic failure if you leave it go for a long time. I figured I'd be the guy to go on the record to say I could have been one of them.

On a good note, Courtesy gave me a GREAT deal on all the parts to replace both VTC's, so parts and labor is only going run me $1500. My mechanic said the inside of the engine he's seen so far is completely immaculate (thank you Amsoil), so after this, I figure I've got at least another 60K Accord spanking, Camry dusting miles in this bad boy. I can't wait to see how much low end power I was missing.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Congrats, your now offically the 2nd person to have this happen. Unfortunately, the first guy's VTCs completely broke and allowed the chain sproket to come off. Completely ruined the heads etc.. Shortblock might have been okay, but he scraped the engine anyway.

maxdout92se

There has gotta be some kind of way we can get Nissan to do a recall on this or sumthin. I mean this VTC ish is happening all over the place and I'm pretty sure they know about it. It just costs tooo damn much to get fixed....$2000, thats a down payment on 5th gen!!!

Stromax2

iTrader: (1)

Did you get your work done at Courtesy or did you just buy the parts from them.


How does it sound now. What mods do you have on your 93SE

go_speed_go

I only bought the parts from Courtesy they're in TX, I'm in FL
VTC sprocket -
My Dealer - $512 each
Courtesy - $365 each

The car is bone stock.
The only thing it's got that may qualify as a mod is Amsoil 5w30 in the motor and Amsoil gear lube in the tranny.

Michael

iTrader: (21)

If your name is an indication of your car you don't have vtcs. They are on 92-94 SE's. If you do have a 89 then you may have a lifter or something making noise...do a search and you should come up with some possible solutions.

jp91se

i have a 91 se and once in a while when i start the car, especially when its cold out (less than 20) i heard a ticking noise. i figured this was the vtcs going..guess not. hm...

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

That's most likely a broken exhaust stud, but could simply be the lifters making noise.

try a search on "exhaust studs" or "manifold studs" and you should find tons of into about it.

I'm guessing that's your problem, but it could just be lifter tick from a worn lifter..

seawolf14

Thanks for the info on the VTC. I've done my research on the problem but was a little unclear about how quickly it needed to be fixed. I too have a VTC tap which comes and go's. Lately it's gotten more frequent and worse, causing me to think about a replacement job.

Just curious, how does one get in contact with Courtesy Nissan? The price on parts is amazing, not sure if the deal is available for everyone. Also, do you have any idea what the estimated labor time is on the VTC job?

One other question, what does it cost to put a new engine in one of these cars?

Thanks for the post. Good luck with the car.

go_speed_go

The web site is http://www.courtesyparts.com/ They've got an toll free number listed on there as well.

To get the discount, just tell them your a member of Maxima.org - it's that easy .

The labor I'm paying for the job is $475.
All the major parts needed for my job are:
Left and Right VTC - $365.56 each
Left & right valve cover gasket - $8.46 each
28 valve cover grommets - $2.78 each
Induction Manifold gasket - $4.16
PCV valve - $6.73
Hose from manifold to PCV tube - $9.37

Possibly, the biggest indicator of a serious problem brewing may be if you can't successfully disable the VTC and get the clicking to stop. Many people have successfully performed this, so it struck me as a bit odd when it didn't work on my car.

As many have done before, including myself, I just can't enough good things about the parts pricing and service at Courtesy. If it weren't for them, my car might have been heading for the bone yard.

ltj_182

I can't seem to find the VTC's on thier website. Are they there and I just can't find them or do I need to call Courtesy? Thanks.

go_speed_go

You need to call.

seawolf14

-Go-Speed-Go

Appreciate all the information, it's been helpful.

Does anyone know Nissan's official stance on the VTC problems? Is there anything we could do?

go_speed_go

After a lot of searching and several different sites, it seems that Nissan is/was well aware of the problem. The only way to get any help from them on repairs though, is if you're the original owner of the car, or you've owned it for a long time and you lean on Nissan with for help claiming "potential loss of brand loyalty" if they don't.

My mechanic also has a VG powered Max in his shop that he was doing a lot of work on. He told me the owner of that car had bought an extended warranty for it at Sam's Club and it was paying for itself and then some. I wonder of you could by one of these extended warranties for a VE and get the VTC's repaired that way. It wouldn't be cheap, but it could be cheaper than shelling it all out of pocket.

JoJo428m

For some reason I have a strange feeling that what happened to go_speed_go, is gonna happen to me sometime in the near future. But nobody's takin my Max!

seawolf14

Interesting idea regarding the warranty, wonder what such a policy would cost? For sh*t's and giggles I sent Nissan an e-mail inquiring about their stance on the VTC's. Probably just beating a dead horse, but I wanted to humor myself.

Mizeree_X

iTrader: (9)

Hey,

I want to repair my VTC's sometime this summer when I'm out of school and making money, but I'm not sure exactly which part fails -- the sprocket itself or the solenoid that operates it? Can you give me the part numbers for the VTC's? I'm going order the parts too so I don't get gouged by the dealer. Thanks.

Glacier

I was just browsing online and came up upon this site and could not help it but have to post a few words about the VTC. Did you guys know that you can get the repair kit from Nissan dealer for approx. $30.00 per side, that kit basicly contain a beefier spring, a gasket and the cap for the VTC, there was a service bulletin for this issue. The only thing you have to do is find a good Nissan Tech who willing to install it for you. Most of them will not rebuilt the VTC for you but rather install a new unit, this way if the the new unit fail within a year then they can claim it under warranty through Nissan. I was working for Nissan for 6 years and rebuilt approximately 25-30 units and did not have any problem. Although couple of Tech was very scare and wouldn't even want to rebuilt them as one of them rebuilt a couple of unit and it only lasted for about one month. The rebuilt procedure is very critical, there are many step that must be follow exactly otherwise it won't work, and every Nissan dealership should have a special tool kit that was send out by Nissan to perform this job. So do some searching with the dealership to see if they can't rebuilt it for you as this will save you some moneys. Good luck. (There is no way to disable the VTC as one of the person on here was mentioning, the reason the VTC failure is the main spring inside the unit was too weak after period of time. I can explain little bit more but it become little technical)
Also for some of you out there with the ticking when engine is cold and go away as the engine is warming up. This is most likely the exhaust manifold stud that broken off or just about to, very tipical on VG30E engine. If all the studs looked ok, then you might look into the valve lifters. As I have seen quite a few fail.
I own a 1989 Maxima which I used only synthetic oil and changing oil every 3000-3500 miles, this seem to help prevent or getting rid of the ticking on the lifter. Also I recommend to use good brand and grade of gasoline to help prevent regular failure of the injectors as this is very conmmon on these engine. Well, I think I've written enough. Hopefully some of you may find it helpful in someway.
Glacier
J30 all the way.
I think this is the best body style Maxima EVER.

eric93SE

iTrader: (1)

Have any of you guys ever replaced the lower o-ring in the vtc solenoid??
I've been thinking about it and decided to replaced the lower o-ring seals in the vtc solenoid. Unfortunatley its not something the dealer carries (would have to buy the whole solenoid). I tried to accuratley measure them and placed an order which will be ready monday. I'll be getting higher quality o-rings Kalrez instead of neoprene (handles much higher temps).
If the lower o-ring does not seal well, there will be an oil pressure leak to the vtc and possibley the sporket will open and shut often, which will ruin them.
The weather is warming in my area and I'm no longer hearing the vtc during warm ups. But I'm looking foward to see how well the o-rings fit.

dmontzsta

iTrader: (8)

This is a very good thread. I just posted vid of my problem. I am actually going to do the disable today. I hope it will shut them up, if not. I will buy this little 92 SE-R to cruise in. And rebuild the VTC's in my spare time.

seawolf14

Glacier-

Just curious if you happen to have URL for the website you got the information off of. I'm suprised no one else on this board has brought up this type of repair before. Guess that's the beauty of these forums, so many different points of view.

In any case, I'll have to start harassing dealerships about this procedure.

Mizeree_X

iTrader: (9)

Actually the repair options are listed in the MaxFAQ from the main page -- it tells you about the VTC's and the 2 repair options. No part # though.

go_speed_go

My mechanic offered the option of the rebuild, but warned that others he knew who tried had very little success. Considering the Labor involved for the R&R and then the labor for the rebuild, You're looking at saving only about $400-500. Considering the potential second cost if it's not done right (at least another $1000), it seemed more worth while to me to spend the extra money up front for peace of mind that the fix will work and I won't have to worry about engine damage should a rebuilt VTC failure be catastrophic.

I've got my old very VTC broken and will be posting some pics of it later.

[edit] Here they are:
http://www.geocities.com/go_speed_go/vtc/index.html

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

I got my hand on a set of used (failing) VTC and press one apart. Internally it's a interesting design, alot of machine work went into designing and making of these VTC's. No wonder it cost so much to buy.

mykizism

Just out of curiousity

what does VTC stand for again?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Very Ticky Chit

CandiMan

iTrader: (1)

With success I finally rebuild my VTC's. Everything went as expected, pressing the VTC's back together in their original position was a slight challenge. I was able to press together one VTC exactly in its original position but the other was slightly off. Due to the design of the VTC I really couldn't see how not pressing the VTC's back together in their original positions could cause the clicking to return, but who knows. I have about 1500 miles on these VTC's and all is well. I hope to get another 110K out of these if I did everything correctly. If you didn't know I strip the engine all the way down to block, pistons, crank and of course the tranny "everything" I mean "everything" else was removed for various reasons including changing exhaust studs and shimming oil pressure regulator valve. While I was at it I changed the water pump and installed my custom intake manifold and plenum in which I enlarged the ports myself and a larger TB. I seriously wanted to do a G-Tech run before and after my work but my decision to tear down the engine was a spare of the moment type of thing. I was driving home one night and the ticking was driving me crazy and ****ing my off, I just pulled into the garage and started pulling things apart. The next day I went to local dealer and ordered all needed parts including the VTC rebuilding kit. My total cost for all my parts was $350 which included a $100 for the water pump and of course my labor was free I have to say, grounding the VTC is a temporary fix if a fix at all but we have to do what we can. It's a pleasure starting the car in the morning and driving thru the neighborhood and the car not sounding like a Detroit, Cummins, or Cat your choice. Did my new intake mods make a difference, who knows? But the car really rips and runs hard. As Rosenken mentioned a properly functioning VTC really makes a difference, I also re-set the ignition timing to 20* BTDC to fine tune everything. Maybe one of these days I'll strap it to a chassis dyno and see what I'm getting. The last time I was on a dyno I got 168 FWHP and 173 FWTQ, not bad for a auto tranny. And yes I did take pics, but I'm going to need someone help in hosting them. Later, MIKE

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

For those of you looking to do the rebuild, there is a specific TSB from Nissan on this. I don't have the number right off hand, but I have a copy of it at the house.
there are two TSBs you need to do the job. the first is the VTC replacement procedure, and the second is the rebuild procedure. follow the directions in the replacement procedure to get the VTC units out, then rebuild them as explained in the other one.

all the parts you'll need are listed in the TSBs, but the thing I recommend is to buy a top-end rebuild/gasket kit. and while you've got the whole thing apart (i.e. heads removed), yank the valve springs off and replace the seals on the valves. most of you by now have a slight puff of blue smoke at startup.. this will fix that, plus the VTC repair.

Disclaimer: this is NOT a job for the weekend DIY'er. you'll be tearing the engine apart. If you're not comfortable with that, leave it up to a shop that knows what they're doing.

Bryan91SE

I've always felt that the sooner you can do the rewire, the better, as you stop the contact that is occurring and the potential to ultimately break the sprocket.