SkyMax

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....threadid=12756

Now in my opinion I don't think a fully blown $7,000 motor will be worth while. It is just too expensive. I think Jeff92SE had a very good comment on the topic. If we keep the stock internals and apply a "bolt-on" Turbo kit at 8psi or less (no intercooler needed) then I think we have a seller! This kit should run around $700-$1000 depending on the parts being used. If Avalon Racing considers making a Turbo kit for the VG30E engine than we would need a "reverse" Y-pipe setup (maybe Warpspeed Performance could help us out on that). Sure beats doing a Z31 swap which requires more custom work!

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

yup i agree...keep it at a reasonable price and they will sell.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

ya that's too high.
What you mentioned Nevin would be perfect for people who just want a little more power. Damn if i didn't live on the other side of the freakin US i'd let my car be a guinea pig.


ooh well i hope they pull it off, just drop the price alittle.

block

Bolt on turbo would be nice. 700-1000 would be nice too.

mykizism

is there such products out there, like bolt on turbo.. for our cars?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Thanks Skymax. Honestly? $1000 is way too cheap IMHO. A T3T4 turbo costs about $500-$600? Custom reverse Y would be like $300-$400. Then add the FPR, all the custom intake tubing, and whatever reasonable profit needed. Not to mention any ecu, SAFC to whatever. Someone chime in here and let's get this going. Involving Warpspeed is a good idea!

SkyMax

After I wrote my post, I started to realize that the $700-$1000 would be too cheap. I forgot to add profit prices too. T3/T4 hybrid Turbo's are expensive. I was thinking of using a T3 because of the amount of boost. Sure a T3 isn't as good as a T3/T4 and you won't achieve as much power but it will keep the price down which is an important goal. $300-$400 sounds about right for a custom reverse Y-pipe. I had a local shop make one for me for $330 but it wasn't Stainless steel or mandrel bent. I will have to talk to Nismo87SE about the ECU. I remember him saying that a VG30E ECU can handle turbo? I'm not too sure about that so I will need to get that clarified from him. In any case, the ECU will definitly need to be reprogrammed for maximum and efficent performance. We will also need to upgrade our fuel system (i.e. Fuel pump, injectors, filter) just to be on the safe side with a Turbo. So i'm estimating around $1500 or more for a Turbo kit which includes some company profits.

Nevin

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I vote to keep it as simple as possible for cost and install reasons. Even no intercooler is good if the boost is below 8-9 psi. Good call about the T3. Smaller is probably better in this case. 7-8 psi is about the same as the vq SC, so maybe we can just get away w/ a good new fuel pump and a pressure riser like the 4-gen guys do??

Nismo87SE

Will require some extra money being dumped into it. For one thing we will need a JWT ECU, those boost pressure risers and/or FMU's won't work as well as the ECU. Also note you will have to tap your oil pan so there needs to be a turbo oil and water supply lines. Along with custom intake/exhaust piping, the downpipe itself would run $300-500 depending on quality. Then you will need a clutch upgrade if your using the stocker, an ACT street clutch should hold with no problems. I say a turbo kit with a nissan T3 kept at 6-8psi will be very reliable. The limiting factor in bolting on a turbo is the injectors, fuel pump and intake temps at the manifold. Then you will need a boost and EGT gauges. Also a turbo timer since turbo's require cool down periods if you want them to last a long time. I figure a kit like this would probably gain 25-35fwhp at 7psi. The reason I don't suggest a T3/T4 is because it will require an upgrade to the injectors and pump (if the pump is stock) and a new ECU program. Also that is a big turbo too here is a pic of a T3/T4 below.
I guess a bolt on turbo kit would include custom Y pipe, Downpipe, POV, T3 turbo, turbo oil/water supply lines, intake piping, JWT ECU, high flow fuel pump, exhaust gaskets and a sticker lol. Of course some of you speed freaks will want to up the boost and you probably will end up blowing a piston or 2. However throw in some 370 or 420cc injectors with a TTZ fuel pump and you can up the boost till your blue in the face. Of course keep a close eye on those EGT's too. But in my case its easier for me to swap the engine vs a bolt on kit. Because I can run more boost and its almost cheaper too.
.

Canuck

So Skymax, are you going to turbo your new max?

thebull

GET THIS TURBO KIT BUILT AND AVAILABLE! sorry had to shout it. from what nismo said though, it doesnt sound like it would be easy to install.

SkyMax

LoL.... I wish but I'm currently out of $$$ ever since my accident. I will be broke for 2 more years.. I'm not too thrilled about it. I have to finish off my payments on my new max plus I have to pay for my college tuition. No mods for SkyMax for a while =(

Maximamike

$7-8k? Forget that. I'll try to meet up with Paul sometime this spring though..

Sith

iTrader: (1)

around 2 grand would be more reasonable.
but the way these cars are setup it won't just be another bolt-on like the VQ SC. Piping and ECU will be a Pain in the ***, not to mention you would probably have to pull the engine out to get most of it in there. Unless you pulled out the accessories around the motor, like Cruise Control, power steering, Radiator, battery.
Even with a small kit there will be ALOT work required but it is a step up from the complete engine swap.
Little steps at a time.

Maximamike

<--Happy to be hardcore..

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

A well designed kit would actually be pretty easy to install relative to the power to be gained. You would probably have to take out the intake/battery tray/radiator but that stuff is easy. I would say it would be on par w/ replacing shocks or springs. As long as the "stage 1" kit doesn't require custom exhaust manifolds, it will be relatively easy. That's the reason for using the reverse Y instead of custom headers.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

well it could go either way depending on IF and HOW they design it. one way would be a major pain in the ***, another wouldn't be to bad. But seeing is how this would be a Prototype kit, i imagine it would have some kinks and be a pain.
But the potential is there.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well that's why I'm taking the time to comment. Sure there is a way to make this kind of project very complicated. But I would want ALOT more power for that expense/time.

I don't understand what you mean. You mean for the same 6-9 psi set up, there could be a very hard way and a much easier way?

Maximamike

Very hard way=custom manifolds, intercooler, injectors, etc.
Easy way=reverse y, no intercooler, fuel pressure riser, etc..

If I'm payin $7k for a turbo engine I better be getting 400+ to the ground. I'm good with my ghetto assed, grassroots setup for now.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

yep what mikey said.
at this point the Swap seems more in the range. And that's what i still have planned for this summer. I can build the block up outside of the car and still have no downtime except when i finally swap the blocks out.

I would still rather go the hard way and have custom exhaust manifolds made, because then you could have a smoother flowing exhaust system with custom headers and Y pipe and catback, where as you have the same stock headers with a reversed y pipe. Custom headers you can free up more HP with a better design.

And i do plan on cranking alot of boost up.

Maximamike

You should also plan a "Opps! I ****ed up!" account on the side when you blow **** up. I know I have. And I'm still looking for a good low mileage VE auto engine to buy this spring.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

ya i am
lol
there's a junkyard in town that has 2 wrecked maximas. One the engine is in good shap. SO if i blow something other than the block i can just go buy the parts off of it.
I'm going to have them rip the disc brakes off their SE and i'm going to do the rear disc swap along with springs sturts sway bars.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You two didn't understand my question. Read it again. A low pressure turbo system would be easy. A high pressure turbo system would be expensive and complicated. Sheesh!

Maximamike

Its only expensive if you like all the shiny goodies Or you want your 300 hp engine to be able to hold 600+. Something proven and simple shouldn't be too hard.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

ya i think we both understood it.
Jeff the point is there is an easy way and a hard way for everything.
a low pressure system CAN be easy. But it is also a prototype system were talking about. I don't even think anyone has got a turbo on these engines without a swap yet have they?

My point is IT might and it might not be a difficult kit. It all depends on how THEY not YOU design it. If they listen to the input from people that know what their talking about it could be a smooth easy setup. If they don't it can be very difficult.

Sith

iTrader: (1)

If it went internal i would recommend the swap.
-shrug-

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

How THEY design it might be based on how what input WE give. So hopefully, a simple kit will be relatively cheap and reliable. There is already a VQ custom turbo running around. And that setup would be very similar to what we would have to do for a stage 1 basic setup.

Maximamike

It sure would. Reverse y pipe into a T3(maybe even T25) turbo. Fuel pressure riser, an air/fuel controller, and other accessories would be include as well.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

since I read that the low pressure system you guys are talking about would put out 210hp(possibly?) in a VG couldn't we go with a Level-10 Stage 2??? I think they run for $2500+/-(don't quote me) and if the turbo runs for $2-3gs we'd(us VG guys) be looking at $4-5gs product wise, but as install????? Man so many possibilities, so little CASH...........

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You automagic guys are own your own. If I were you guys, I would start looking around for someone you could do a valve body recalibration like Don does for the 4-gens. He's set-up is really the most cost effective and sensible set-up I have seen.

Maximamike

Don does valve bodies for the VE's. Even if they do make a kit it'll be the same story...

Today: "Hell yeah, I'm all over that!"

6 months later: "Its to expensive, how do I know if it works?"

Blah blah blah..

Been there, done that..

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

Level Ten!!! If it is between me getting a turbo or not(if I have the cash to begin with)I will sure as hell put out $700 to Level 10 for a recall, but as for a total rebuild, the question is do I really wanna pop $5gs+/- into my '91 Max????? very tempting, but financially questionable!(at least for me)

SkyMax

Have you ever installed a Turbo kit on a car before?? Why do you think it's so difficult? I don't understand your concept for a Stage 1 Turbo kit. If you think installing a Stage 1 Turbo kit is difficult to install then a Z31 VG30ET swap will be murder for you! I've been through both... I know what it's like.

Maximamike

Analogies..

Stage 1 turbo kit: Sand castle at the beach.

VG30E-T: Making the tower of Piza straight again.

Take your pick. Skymax get on AIM

Sith

iTrader: (1)

what Avalon is talking about is a full rebuild of the engine. 7 grand worth.
Yes they MIGHT make a stage 1 but as for now there still looking at total rebuild.
IF they do a stage 1 turbo kit YES it will be easy. I never said it would be hard. i said they can make it hard if they stick with the rebuild and intercoolers and manifolds.