elcid

Anybody ever try this kit out, or heard anyhting about it? Came across it while browsing the net. Here is they're description below of the kit for the maxima.
[I]http://www.pfispeed.com/interface.htm

This car is a 1997 model, otherwise completely stock. I believe that the Maxima is pretty much the same from 95-99 years. This kit uses a Turbonetics T04 turbo, HKS/Greddy/etc blow-off valve, Tial/Turbonetics wastegate, Spearco front mount intercooler (core size 20x7.8x3.5), and a Vortech FMU. The battery has been relocated to the trunk. The complete kit can be installed at our shop (please call us for price and to schedule an appointment), and can take about ten days. Before and after dyno runs are included with the kit.

With the boost set to just 4 psi, this kit made a 5spd car go from 176hp & 190.4 ft-lbs (at the wheels) to 267.6hp & 271.6 ft-lbs, verified with our Dynojet chassis dyno. This car is a 1997 model, otherwise completely stock. I believe that the Maxima is pretty much the same from 95-99 years. This kit uses a Turbonetics T04 turbo, HKS/Greddy/etc blow-off valve, Tial/Turbonetics wastegate, Spearco front mount intercooler (core size 20x7.8x3.5), and a Vortech FMU. The battery has been relocated to the trunk. The complete kit can be installed at our shop (please call us for price and to schedule an appointment), and can take about ten days. Before and after dyno runs are included with the kit.

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

That's turbo97SE's car...

I've seen it, it's friggin awesome...

JdawgX

I don't know that I'd go that far. He can't even run it yet! It's been a few months already and he doesn't even have a clutch in it. The jury is still out, let's see some time slips!

Jr'sMaxima

I too have seen and rode in it with 4 people in the car with only 4psi of boost and it threw us back. His clutch problems are not due to the Turbo at all. That thing just flat out rocks, and if I had the money I might just cruise a few miles over and have them throw one in.....LOL.

But yes, it is very good, just ask Nigle, aka Turbo97Se

SleeperSE

- I don't see how 4 pounds of boost can give you that kind of gain. 4 pounds of boost is just breaking even from thermal losses on most systems... and the intercooler is only going to rob an additional pound or two of boost from the overall system on top of that. Plus, since they are using a single turbo on a V-shaped engine, they had to route the exhaust from under the car back up to the turbo (where the battery is normally located) with a rather lengthy path. This means big-time lag.
- On top of it all, the turbo is too small for any top-end power. According to their own dyno sheet, its torque dies off rapidly at 5 grand, just like the stock motor does. Its not going to turn in crazy-fast numbers until they install the next larger size turbo in there.
- The kit looks very impressive, but I consider it to be too complicated and I think that it is going to have some serious lag. And I just don't see how you can get those numbers from a mere 4 pounds of boost.

- Sorry, but that's my two cents.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I guess it depends where you are measuring the 4 psi from. If the guage is measuring manifold pressure, then they can have the turbo spool up to let's say 6psi. But it would only show 4psi at the manifold??

SCC did a great article on a project 240sx turbo. It was a bare bones set up with the stock fuel pump and a boost referenced FPR. Their setup only boosted from 4psi to maybe 6-7psi max(for testing). They did mention that even at 4psi, there was a DEFINATE increase in power. And to top it off, they ran one of the longest series of IC pipes I seen on any FMIC setup. They even mentioned that they were expecting some issues(ie.. lag) from this setup but suprisingly did not. Since this 4gen and the project 240sx are on stock compression(high relatively), lag is not really an issue as you retain most(if not all) the low end punch a na car has

I'm also skeptical about his really big gains on his low pressure kit. But he does have a dyno to back it up.

My feelings on the power loss on the 5k+ range might be more to do with the nature of the VQ30 beast. ie.. no varible intake or cams to help out high end breathing. Of course you could just force more boost in there, but I think you would just be heating air up more than upping the power. 4psi on a MEVI equipped 4-gen turbo would be a very interesting thing to see. SC'd versions show a great gain. The Nissan VQ heads are pretty efficent and so are the stock manifolds. Even with "alot" of tubing, the stock compression, the 3.0 displacement and the 6 exhuast pulses, should keep a T3/T4 spinning quite well. After all it's just modified T3(farily small turbo)

I'm not an expert by no means but I just want to note that 4psi can make gains and it's documented even on a 4 cylinder.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

You seem to post your two cents quite often, and they rarely have any basis in reality.

A Turbonetics T04 is quite a large turbo. 4psi on that snail is moving alot of air, I'm sure you can find compressor maps for this turbo, if you know the exact specs of it (A/R, etc) at turbonetics or PFIs website.

Are you suggesting that PFI and Nigel are lying and posting fake numbers?

Jr'sMaxima

Trust me, this car is very fast! I mean his HP #'s speak for themselves........

MAXXspeed18

I thought he was running more than just 4 psi.....i read at one point he said he had 9 psi and he was running at about 352 fwp.....thats what i atleast saw....i seen it poseted here on this forum

SleeperSE

- First off, Jeff92SE has a good point about where the boost is being measured at. Four pounds right at the intake manifold, with some judicious tuning, could produce those numbers. As a matter of fact, a guy I race with had a 12 second Integra GS-R that was running a mere 6 pounds of boost. It was a huge turbo for the size engine and it didn't spool until right around the VTEC clickover, but all that top-end really helped his times out.

- I took a lot of offense to your post, Nealoc. I never suggested that they were posting fake numbers, but then again, it wouldn't be the first time that a tuner tried to impress their audience. I've never found mindless acceptance to be a good policy. Half of this board would not be here if we all believed everything that was told to us. It is possible that they upped the boost for the dyno run - but it is also possible that they did not.
- The T04 may be a large turbo, but it might not be large enough for a 3.0L engine. Remember, the 300ZXTT's ran TWO turbos, one for each bank. It is very obvious from the dyno curve that the turbo isn't helping out much up top. It dies around 5 grand, like I stated before. This is Forced Induction 101; when a small (relative to the size of the engine) turbo runs out of juice, the torque curve dies off very rapidly - just like the Max's dyno curve. So yes, the T04 may be a big, honkin' turbo - but it might not be big enough for a 3.0L motor. I'm sure that it would be positively huge for a smaller four-cylinder, but perhaps its not enough for six hungry cylinders. What do you think would happen if you popped that baby on a Semi?
- If this really is a huge turbo then it should be very thermally efficient. Because of this, I personally feel (as this board and this country entitle me to) that it should be helping to make power a bit higher in the rev-range - just like my friend's Integra.
- Then again, the website said that the rest of the exhaust system was stock, so there is a chance that the restrictive exhaust and the restrictive intake manifold prohibited top-end power from being produced. Again, I wasn't there to help install the kit, I am merely making my concerns public.


- Overall, I'm just skeptical that the Maxima could make that much power on so little boost. (I could totally believe it if there were a few more pounds of boost being pushed through, though.) If you have a problem with what I think, post some of your own thoughts, back them up with some facts, and let us all learn from the experience. At the very least, we can find out if it really IS possible to run a virtually stock Maxima to such high power levels on such low boost.

- Does anyone remember the turbo Max that was in SCC or one of the Honda-type magazines? I read about it a year or two ago and I'd love to know what numbers it was putting in. I'm sure that a comparison between the two cars would help us to figure this out.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm! Well your two cents isn't worth very much! You have not installed a turbo and have probably not sat inside a turbocharged max. There is lag, I have to admit, but there is also big time power (depending on whether or not you think 352 HP and 349 lb-ft @9.3 psi is big).

I did not have my clutch in for a long time ... I am not made of money and had to save . Now I have the clutch in, when I break it in, I will take it to the track. I also have a lightened flywheel from Stillen which helps the lag. There are some people on the ORG who think that my turbo is too big! If you get big turbo, expect more lag but more power, for small turbo, less lag , less power. Just depends on what you want. My set up is untuned (No AFC), now I have an AFC we should see even better numbers.

You don't believe my numbers? Well, I will gladly race you at the track. Do you have NOS? You can turn that on too!

I have given some people rides in the car at 4 psi and they were pretty happy. I'll give more at 9.3 psi. If it turns out my turbo is too small, I'll get a 60-1!

Too complicated? Wonder which part you're talking about. Let's see, we have the pipe to the turbo, pipe from the turbo back to CAT. If you don't want I/C, you can go straight to the TB, but need to install an intake like a CAI. Which part of that is complicated? It all bolts on (except the oil return) If you can drill a hole, that isn't even hard!

For the top end, I am inclined to agree with Jeff, I think it is choking because of those long thin runners. I agree that the VI would help, but $$ per HP, to me it isn't worth it.

I would be interested in what would be your ideal set up then? Please enlighten us with your wisdom as to what would be the best set up!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I thought you were actually insinuating that Nigel was posting fake dyno numbers, that's why I worded my post so strongly. Nigel has put alot of work into his car, putting his car up for R&D time and spending the money to be a guinea pig, and then sharing his findings with the Maxima community. I misunderstood your post and I apologize.

SleeperSE

- Thanks Nealoc. Apology accepted. BTW, I can't wait to see what your car is going to do n/a. Are you planning on building the motor and/or getting some hotter cams fabricated?

- Wow, Turbo97SE, I think that you totally misread my posts. I never said anything about 9+ pounds of boost. I would totally expect those kinds of numbers from a car that is set up like yours.

- Also, I just spoke with a car-buddy of mine to see what he thought about the PFI car. He thinks that it could definitely be possible, but he wasn't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt. He promised to take a look at the dyno and send me his thoughts tomorrow. In the mean time, he mentioned that the T04 is used on a lot of Supra's with reasonably high horsepower. The really, really fast Supra's (700hp+) are using the T66, T78, or nitrous-spooled T88 turbos to run high 9's and 10's.

- Turbo97SE, I really think that turbocharged Maxima are great. Nissan engines, in general, have always been very tolerable to boost and the people who are working on turbo kits and installs should be commended for keeping that great flame burning. I just saw a picture on a Japanese Nismo website (hardly any English, unfortunately) of a VQ35DETT!!! It was absolutely awesome! The valve covers were painted Nismo Blue, so I imagine that they had created it to test in the upcoming Skyline and/or 350Z. I can't wait to see what they do with it.
- By saying that the piping was "complicated," I merely meant that there were a lot of twists and turns involved. The system is pretty self-explanatory, its just a bit too long and a bit too curvy for an "ultimate" set-up. I'm sure that you'll agree that the more twists and turns there are, the more loss there is.
- Good luck with the new electronics on your car.

Matt

SleeperSE

- Okay, if going the "ultimate turbocharged route"...

- I'd have twin turbos - both T3/T4's. I'd route the boost back up through twin air-to-water intercoolers and into my custom-made split-intake manifold/plenum. I would keep all piping down to a minimum.
- If I was keeping the stock compression ratio, I would run about 10 pounds of boost. I'm pretty sure that you could still use pump gas.
- If I had the option of building the motor, I would use titanium rods, knife-edge the crank, balance the whole thing, and drop the compression ratio to 8.5:1. Once there, I would run 15 pounds of boost - that should still work on pump gas.
- For engine management, I would use a Haltech ECU hooked up to the stock knock-sensor.
- The heads would be ported, polished, and port-matched. The intake manifold/plenum set-up would also be bored out and extrude honed. I would also have a completely custom-made exhaust - about 3" in diameter.
- All of this power would be kept in check by some better motor-mounts, the Qaiffe LSD, and some mighty grippy tires. I would use the Unorthodox Racing light-weight flywheel (5 pounds) to keep lag to a minimum, and would go with a heavy duty ACT clutch. Hopefully, the stock transaxle can withstand all of this.

- That's what I would do if money were no issue and I had to run on pump gas.


- I'm dying to know how you like the Stillen Flywheel. I'll be swapping my clutch and (possibly) the flywheel by the end of August and I am torn between the Stillen (13 pounds) and the Unorthodox Racing (5 pounds) flywheels (Stock is 17.5 pounds, according to Stillen). Both are about $550 right now. How much of an improvement did you see with the Stillen over the stock flywheel? Do you think that 5 pounds would be too light for the street? Thanks for your advice!


Matt

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I've considered building the motor in the future, when I have my M3 and the salary to support building an M3 and Maxima at the same time. As for cams... JWT just released cams for the VQ yesterday... so I'm planning on those when I have another $1500 to blow on my car

ivelweyz

The unorthodox racing flywheel is undrivable for streets from what I've heard. It's way too light...

mblasko85

How much does it cost?

SleeperSE

The flywheel costs $570 from www.unorthodoxracing.com
Stillen's is $550 at www.stillen.com

- Thank you for the warning. I'll go with the Stillen flywheel instead.

- Finally, JWT cams for the VQ!!! My prayers have been answered!


***I just checked the JWT website and they're not up. Does anyone have any links to a dyno sheet or some figures? I really, really want to see what they got out of them. Thanks!

sx7r

iTrader: (15)

UR's 5lb flywheel doesn't include the weight of the stock timing ring/gear that will have to be bolted back on. i have one, and there isn't the slightest drivability issue with the UR flywheel.

further references disproving the drivability myth:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....5&pagenumber=2

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Sleeper. I think you sorta missed my point about more boost=more high rpm power. Yes, forcing more boost will "probably" work. But again, it will probably just heat up the charge more than make power. A T04 should be more than enough turbo for any stock compression ratio motor. You would run out of boost capability before running out of the turbo efficency range. For a 3.0 liter V6, even a small T3 is what Garrett sized it too. This is what the older single 300z came with. (abeit it's a low boost application)

You just can't keep cramming in more boost. If there is another bottleneck in the system ie.. heads(probably not), valve size(probably not) maf size(probably not) or maybe intake manifold(PROBABLY SO! HEHE) If you keep cramming boost down a restrictive intake, you have the law of diminishing returns working agaist you.

As far as twin turbos. Most twin applications like Skylines, RX7s and Supras go big singles for ultimate power. Cars like Audis S4/S6 and 300Zs stay twins because THEY have to. Remember it might seem like a good idea to run twin T3/T4s but now you only have 1.5 liters spooling each turbo. Even the Honda turbos using this hybrid have at LEAST 1.8 to over 2.0 liters to spool it(plus the higher compression ratio on these Hondas have create even more exhaust velocity)

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

JWTs website hasn't been updated since like 1997 haha. Our own member i30krab is working closely with JWT on his engine project, and he announced them monday in a thread. Searching back a few pages would certainly find it. They are for the VQ35 but will work with VQ30 with the correct spacers.

SkylineGTR

Turbonetics T04 is more than enough boost for the Maxima. T04 is more than enough for any street car. A lot of turbo kits for the NA Supra use T04 Turbos.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

OK, so you know a little something about turbos and performance stuff still a lot of your opinion is just that, opinion. Some things may work better, somethings may not air/water works well if done right, the twin turbos, probably not. Like Jeff said, the Supras often switch their twins for a big T78 for big power! 8.5:1 is probably too low, you'd have difficulty getting off the line (maybe), but then again some factory turbo cars have it at 8.5:1 but most of them use tiny turbos to get on the boost quicker. (Are Supras 8.5:1?) I know WRXs are that or less.

Haltech is probably doable for engine management, but so far the one person brave enough to try it hasn't got it running.

As far as the flywheel, mine helps some, but still not happy. I chose not to do the UR flywheel because of other people's opinions on driveability. Looking back, I perhaps should have just tried it.

Well, I plan to go to the track in the next 2 weeks. I am having issues with my AFC right now. It runs like crap, even pass through!

I feel that the kit is balanced just right between drag power and street. It's probably a little too laggy for street. For highway, it kicks serious a$$! If you want street acceleration only with a little less power, a T3/T4 would work great - some say better. Turbo95max runs that.

Bottom line is, don't knock it if you haven't tried it or experienced it. I am not saying this kit is perfect, but it is a big step forward (I think) I am happy with mine, if I could get a little more bottom end, I would be truely happy!

SkylineGTR

yea turbo95max car runs t3/t4, and if im not mistaken i read on a previous post he gets about 5psi at just under 3000rpm and max pressure at around 3500, which to me sounds awesome.

SleeperSE

- Hey guys, I wrote this huge reply and I didn't like any of it, so this is the edit.

1. Yes, the crazy folks with Supra's are indeed running huge single turbos. I mentioned this before. And yes, the ones who have semi-sized turbos need nitrous running through the turbos just to spool.

2. I thought more and more about running T3/T4's... and I think that you guys are right. They wouldn't spool up fast enough. I had screwed up some numbers in my head from a guy who was running one on a 1.8L engine - that lead me to believe that it would work on one bank. (Now, if one were to build a motor that could rev to 8,000rpm, that would really be something else!)

So, I have come up with three ultimate set-ups for your approval:

A) Twin T3's (keeps lag to a minimum and Martha Stewart would just adore the symmetry.)*
B) Single T3/T4 (as those who have turbos will agree)*
C) Single T66 on a built motor that can handle 8,000rpm.*

* I think that, for an "ultimate" car, a custom intake manifold is a must. At the very least, the MEVI.


3. As for compression ratios, I don't think that matter as much as you stated before. The WRX STi runs an 8.0:1 CR and I think that the standard WRX runs 8.3:1. I think that 8.5:1 would be just fine for a streetable car running on streetable gas. 9.0:1 would probably work, too, but I'd rather play it safe and lose the 20 or so ponies in case I got a bad tank of gas.

4. Just so you won't think that I was COMPLETELY crazy, the June issue of SCC had a "pick-your-turbo" kind of article in it. On page 268 they note that, for an engine between 1500cc and 1800cc, a T3/T4 could be used for a "Maximum Street Performance/Weekend Warrior" style car. They do note that huge lag is involved and that this set-up works better on high-revving engines, like Honda's B16A.

- Okay, I'm done. You guys were right. Catch you later.

Matt

SleeperSE

- Concerning the new cams... will they require upgraded valve springs? Does anyone even make valve springs for us?

thnikkamax

iTrader: (2)

I'm intrigued by the whole Twin T3 idea...

Any opinions on this?

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

How did you put the AE headlights in your 97?? Pics?

SkylineGTR

"AE Style"
he opened up the headlight housing on the 97 headlights and painted the inner area black/bronze.

BrianV

iTrader: (9)

I've had a hard time believing these numbers as well, and being that the owner of the dyno-slips is also marketting the product makes me even more weary. For instance, go buy a sport compact car and flip to a DC Sports Header advertisement and watch them say, "Dyno Charts Prove 25 HP gains from DC Headers alone on a Civic SI". That's like a 20% increase in power from headers alone. Bah it's just advertising BS.

Anyways, no stock 5spd maxima puts down 175 to the wheels so his baseline is off, thus his boosted numbers are going to be even further off. I would say at 4PSI 240 WHP would be about right.

thnikkamax

iTrader: (2)

Like SkylineGTR said, I opened em up and painted the edges black...total difference on the look of the car if your car is a dark green, blue, or better with black. There's a How2 section on Cheston's website (www.maximadriver.com), that's where I got it from.

SleeperSE

- Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Canuck

I think the base line was with a CAI and Y-pipe, so maybe the baseline isn't screwed up. Lets se what happens at the track. These should be real # (for 5000ft).

thnikkamax

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I recall something about a custom Y pipe that they made for him. Check out the 4TH GEN TURBO Thread for more info....I think it's still going.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

Look, before you start bad-mouthing people, get the facts! The baseline numbers were with CAI and Y-pipe. The dyno sheets that I have put up in the past indicate as much. In any case, I don't care cos there WILL be more Maximas out there with the same setup. They will prove/disprove my numbers. I am also anxious to see how this works for other people in other locations. Even my tuner found it hard to believe that I would get so much power at the wheels, he expected a little over 300 HP @ 9 psi. If you'll put up the money for a dyno somewhere else in Colorado, I'll gladly go and dyno there, you pick the place. First, people bad mouth when you don't have pics of the set up, then b!itch when you don't dyno, then start bad-mouthing again when you don't have track times, I get dynoed and people don't believe the numbers anyway. The same will probably be true for track times - it's never ending! There's always some a$$ on your back!

densetsu

iTrader: (1)

i believe you, now you wanna hook me up with a sale price on that turbo kit?

BrianV

iTrader: (9)

It's just the fact that you're selling this product (for a profit, and don't deny it) so obviously you want it to sell. Also, you could be in altitude in Colorado (I don't know where in CO), but altitude and turbocharged cars aren't too consistent. Most of the boosted cali guys are doing their testing ~90F at sealevel.

At any rate someone earlier in the post said you put down 175 stock (go up and read), I didn't know this was the case.

Although I think the kit is a good idea and a markettable one I haven't stayed keen to these posts because if I were to turbo I'd go all custom because I can put together a kit with IC installed for $2,500 (I once had the parts but sold them all). Went with the SC for the ease. I knew going in the turbo would be the better performance route, but I didn't know how it would hold up in the long run and I didn't want to guniea pig my car with a turbo setup. Thus, I went the easy way with the SC.

Anyways good luck I look forward to seeing more of these turbos around the states and hopefully they'll all be running without any internals breaking in 1-2 years.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

well, I don't think I need answer your post, it speaks for itself... BUT ...

1. altitude and turbochargers are not consistent? That's why some older aircraft use turbochargers (non-jet). Turbos and s/c work on similar principles of compressing air, they are just driven differently.

2. I have dynoed at 105F with no fan on the intercooler. I experienced some major loss of power (319 HP cf 352) at higher boost (probably lean and also found a temp sensor came out-prolly screwed up maf reading)

3. $2500? for all i/c set up? Now I know you're talking smack!I would have found some way to make it work than pay $3600 for non-i/c setup (non-installed). As far as ease is concerned, it took 3 weeks to come up with my setup. Think of all that money you could make selling the non-existent turbo kit for less than $3000.

4. Boost is boost is boost...doesn't matter whether it is from a pulley or exhaust gas driven. It is sooo easy to control ... too easy to increase ... you may be right about blown engines due to turbos. The main reason for that is that one can up the boost for $0.50 using a vacuum tee. I don't know how much a 3" pulley costs. As far as reliability is concerned, it doesn't sound like the s/c has a good track record either.

If you are ever in CO, let me know, let's go to the track and dyno. If I win, you pay, if you win, I pay. If I go to So Cal?, same thing. I'll run same boost as you.

By the way, are you the guy that posted about the Silvia turbos being installed? Sounds awfully familiar

PS I am not a s/c hater, they have their applications. Too bad there isn't a roots-type kit available. My personal opinion is that this kit is more flexible since you can bolt on different chargers ... anything from a straight T3 to T4/60-1 ... I'll stop there b4 I get accused of more marketing BS.

One last note, turbos are coming back in a big way! Passat, Beetle, Audis A4, S4, WRX and lancer EVO VII. Supras and 300ZX not to mention Porsches have done this for years! How reliable are turbos again?

Anyone in CO got a s/c? Win or lose, I would like to race ... at the track of course

BrianV

iTrader: (9)

I didn't post anything about Silvia's.

About the elevation. I meant more on the lines that in increased elevations turbochargers are affected differently then natural or SC'd cars because of the density of the air. Some high boost cars (GMC Syclone) will actually perform better in colder, higher altitude climates.

At any rate, my $2,500 kit didn't include brand new parts. Rebuilt T3/T4 Garret from Texas Rebuilds, Walboro and 300ZX mix for the fuel, HKS intercooler hooked up, custom fab, tial wastegate, and hks ss bov. I didn't say I'd market the kit at $2,500, one of my friends works at JUN another at Blitz another is the nephew of the guy who used to run FastTrak Turbos (now works in conjunction with JUN), and finally my friend just started a shop doing 240 to SR20 conversions. This was a one time parts cost and fabrication cost. However, if I were to try and sell it I wouldn't be able to reliably find the same deals and prices.

At any rate, yes the SC has crappy track record especially V2's, that's why I waited forever to find a second genreation V1.

By the way I live in Texas now not Cali.

PS - I'm not attacking your turbo setup, I'm glad someone has created alternatives for boost. I was just initially weary about the figures because someone had posted that you made 175 STOCK to the wheels, that was the initial purpose for the whole post, had the correct data even been presented I wouldn't have even post.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)