Jr'sMaxima

OK, so I dont have a 5 speed but I wanna drive my auto like one. Not hard shifts but smooth and all, how bad is it for the tranny/engine?? Any short term effects/long term? How bad is it?

Thanks.

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

well it's not doing anything better for your car... just wearing out parts quicker. Your still not a 5 spd and your not as fast by shifting like that. Think of it this way, is a new tranny worth your "wannabe shifting" I know ppl that do it while racing, but it sounds like you wanna do it first thing in the morning all day long. If you really wanna do it, sell ur auto and get 5 spd

H.N.I.C.95

That is a false statement.

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

care to explain? I've shifted her hard manually at the track for the last year, times havent increased, and when i dropped the oil pan, nice magnet looked scary with the amount of metal it had collected. That's inspiration enough for me to not shift like that anymore. The big problem is shifting and gasing it @ the right time because if you don't let it engage, it'll spin, and grinddddd... and i have still yet to see real proof that times increase.

gjabo178

I agree with H.N.I.C.95. Shift all you want.

clee130

You want to drive your car like a 5 speed, get a 5 speed.

Autos aren't meant to be shifted like 5 speeds. And like seximagtr said, no proof that you're actually faster when you manually shift your auto.

95emeraldgxe

the maxima doesnt have any power after 6200RPM anyway, so no use in trying to redline

gjabo178

I agree that it doesn't make faster on a straight line, but you will be faster shifting if your on a track taking corners, no?
That way you can downshift for corners.
The ecu doesn't see and can't effectively shift for cornering.

JAIMECBR900

I don't know that downshifting, even more so if racing, is going to be applicable to the "no damage" scenario. Straightline accelaration may be ok, but downshifting I seriously doubt since it forces the torque converter and the bands of an auto tranny to deccelarate the car. I don't think downshifting would be a good idea on an auto tranny w/o extensive mods.

I also agree that there is really no proof that manually shifting an auto is going to "improve" acceleration since the only reason to do it in the first place would be to prolong the shift points. As others have mentioned, our max's do not produce any more power above around 6k rpms, so I think it would really be futile to take every gear past that. The tranny ecu, under hard take offs, takes the car to preset points at or very near redline at all gears already by itself.

If you are looking to get the "feel" of driving a 5spd w/o having to shift, you really need to re-think the situation. Autos are never a 5spd no matter what we do. You can improve the strength and performance of an auto, but it is still an auto (warts and all). A 5spd's performance advantage doesn't come from shifting at higher rpms (the engine's power band is what it is no matter what tranny it's mated to), the advantage comes from weight reduction, parasitic drivetrain HP loss, and inertia. Both trannies have compromises. Autos are easier in crowded cities where traffic is an issue, have more probability to last longer (bear with me on this one), and can be made to be just as strong (resistance to breakage)as a 5spd. 5spds are better performers out of the box, more flexible, and "funner" to drive. Manuals also have to be strengthened (clutches, pressure plate, etc.) to hold substantial HP for very long which can get expensive over time, strengthened manuals are a bear to drive in city traffic daily, and non-strengthened require more frequent overhauls (clutch wise)(hence the earlier durability comment for autos)than an auto.

To make a long story even longer, if you are looking to act like a 5spd with an auto, it is a losing proposition at best. At worst, it could cost you thousands to find out you should have got a 5spd in the first place.

BTW, I'm a 95 GLE auto.

H.N.I.C.95

First, they were put their for a reason

Second, if he wanted a Manual he could Have Got one their cheaper

Third, you must know what your doing

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

I have a VI though, so I'm not in the same category. I went to the track last weekend and ran 3 or 4 back to back 15.1's manually shifting. I let the car shift on it's own one time and i got a 15.6 with an almost identical R/T and 60ft as the 15.1's.

On a OEM manifold though, there was never any difference in my times when I tried to manually shift the car. Plus I would sometimes hit the rev limiter and that would give me slower times. My 15.05 was hit with the car shifting itself.

The weather has been hotter than hell with ungodly humidity lately is why I can't get a better time with my VI as I could with my OEM.

JAIMECBR900

VI is a different variable all together though. The VI's whole purpose is to open up the powerband even higher than oem, hence the advantage manually shifting or leaving it alone. As you said, with OEM, there's really no advantage and since the original poster probably doesn't have a VI he would have no real advantage.

BTW, on a side note. Have you got dyno results of before and after the VI? I'm just curious. I think that's an awesome mod (from what I hear) and one of our SE guys if about to do it, so I was just curious how much stronger he could be.

H.N.I.C.95

Proof. I did not think I was that stupid

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

sure its proof for the 2 or 3 guys with a vi and are auto, only because the vi produces such massive numbers @ redline, the 99% of other auto maxes do NOT produce enough hp and torque to justify redlining it so far as you can when you drop it in d1 and d2. As was mentioned before by others who are more experienced than me, the power curve drops off nearly right after the stock tranny shifts. There is no way in h3ll that you are gonna drop from 15.6 to 15.1 without a vi. The few guys that have shown slips manually shifting have EVERY bolt on mod, and gain somethin like 1 or 2 tenths of a second, and keep in mind that there are sooo many variables that could have governed that.

HNIC, read the manual, the d1 and d2 wasnt put there so you can manually shift to race, it was their for different driving conditions such as towing/ rain/ and snow where you NEED the instant power. Even then, you leave it in d1 and d2, not shifting or downshifting.

I've yet to see hard proof that it'll help on autos (that dont have vi). The risk is to great that your frying something in the tranny. Besides, as i said before, is the couple of g's you'll spend for a new tranny worth the supposed .1 or .2 seconds that you gain?

Jr'sMaxima

Well Id get a 5speed but it would be hard to find a 95 with 86,000 on it, and in the shape mines in. Id do a conversion but its $1500 i dont have right now. Plus my car is PAID OFF so thats a big thing too.

Not like I do it ALL THE TIME, but was just wondering how bad it was if I did it once in a while.

But if one of you wants to send me the parts for a 5speed swap, Ill take them!

kushane

By "shifting" the tranny manually, all you are really doing is telling the Automagic box when to shift, as opposed to letting a transmission control unit determine when to shift. I don't believe technically it is any different from leaving the tranny in D except that the Control unit will shift within certain safety parameters - eg: if the resulting revs are low enough to permit a downshift.

Remember the thread about the idea of having upshift and downshift buttons to control shifts by "fooling" the transmisison control module etc?

perfectmax

iTrader: (1)

I blew the tranny in my Acura Legend shifting like that. Anyone telling you that it doesn't affect your transmission is smoking dope. Good thing i bought a 5-speed.

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

bs with the safety parameters, go 50mph and shift to d1 and lets see what your car does? it's not gonna stay in 3rd gear i'll tell ya that much, the tranny computer does what you tell it to, it just takes a sec. Upshifting, sure it'll upshift when you "tell" it to by shifting up, but you can still bounce off the rev limiter and hit fuel cutoff.

Point is, your auto can and probably will be hurt if this is a regular way of driving, but like i said before, it's not worth the consequences.

JetBlackMax

iTrader: (12)

Well, My Max is a 98 GLE. When I regularly Drive, I dont manually Shift. But when its time to race, The Manalley shifing begins. I dont know what that guys talking about when he said that manually shifting dont make you faster? Heh, Check out the 1/4 Slips for any AUTO that manually shifts. My Car does tend to get a better time when I manually shift my Auto, then letting the car do it itself. U just gotta know how to drive the car, Feel the car, Love the car, and understand its power!

If your racing do this with an Auto....

1. Make sure the O/D Button is OFF!
2. When at the line, Drop the Stick down to 1, Put your Left foot on the brake, and Right **** on the gas touching it lightly to rev up to 2500 RPM.
3. WHen that light hits green, FLOOR IT. Let the RPM Needle hit about 6500 (Which it will) (Normally when it does it by itself in D, it shifts to 2nd at about 4500-5000 RPM)Then Keep your foot on the gass, and Shift it to 2nd Right at 6500.
4 Continue to Floor it while in 2nd, when u see the RPM needle hit 6500 Shift it back into 3rd (D) and Let it go (floored) from there.

And I can garentee you, 100% That you will get a better 1/4 Time and R/T Doing this, then letting the car do it itself. Dont belive me? Try IT!

Nick

Viscous

I've driven my 97 SE auto manually for about 4.5 years now, 90k miles and everything is smooth and strong still. I manually shift almost everyday esp for hills. I also usually leave it in 2nd for curves. I've shifted the car from D to 1 at 50mph and the tranny goes into neutral as it waits for your revs to drop to a suitable level before downshifting (at approx 40mph). I've hit the rev limiter on several occasions in first and second - it wasn't pretty. Anyhow just like to let you guys know that my car still runs fine, but perhaps I will be needing a new tranny. If I could start all over again, I'd not drive it so hard, but I'd still manually downshift for steep slopes.

JAIMECBR900

I don't know how much track exp. you have or how many times you have run your car at a dyno. I will tell you this though, it has been my (as well as numerous others) that manually shifting an auto offers only slight if any improvements in accelaration. There are quite a few reasons for this (here's a couple): The gear ratio remains the same no matter how the tranny shifts; VQ engines (w/o VI) sharply drop both HP and torque at or near redline; Manually shifting only benefits by you choosing the shift points.

With those couple of reasons said, I totally disagree with you. I don't know about your car, but my car shifts at or near redline under WOT acceleration. I have no idea why you say that yours shifts at 4500 when everyone else I know of (if left in D) @WOT shifts basically at redline. Some of the hardcore racers have also commented that it is not always beneficial to torque brake an auto to achieve a good launch. Even when necessary, I believe 2500 is way too high. It has been my exp. at the track that when big power mods come into play, torque braking is only going to break the tires loose quicker. Stock may or may not make a diff. My exp. is that 1000-1500 rpms is plenty to help the engine get on it's way climbing quicker, if at all.

I could go on and on, but I'm not right now. Bottomline is that the info you have provided has been sharply debated before and the proof (i.e. timeslips) show that you are incorrect in assuming that manually shifting the auto tranny will improve your times dramatically. Maybe a couple of tenths on a good day, but doubtful.

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

MY best times at the track are all done manually shifting the auto. While the power does fall off very quickly up top, the gear ratio is still better in the previous gear. I always manually shift the 1-2 cause it puts you better in the powerband in 2nd, plus you are not in first gear very long. It is not beneficial from my experience to manually shift the 2-3 at the track. Just to add another thought though. On a top speed run, I hit top speed faster if I turn OD off and run 3rd out until redline, as opposed to letting the car shift into OD normally. The car is making less power up near redline in 3rd, but the geraing is better in third than in OD. P.S. My variable intake is on the way so I won't have to worry about this anymore.

JAIMECBR900

You lost me totally here. How can you manually shift 1-2 and let the ecu do 2-3? When you manually shift, specially with VB mod, going from 2-D (letting the ecu do the 2-3 shift), the tranny will kick up to 3rd as soon as you pass L-2; I don't know for sure if this applies to WOT (I haven't tried it myself) though. I'll try tomm and find out and hold my flames til then...

I still don't see any real benefit to manually shifting since the gear ratios are what they are regardless of manually shifting or ecu shifting. According to my dyno runs, power drastically begins to drop off at around 5800-5900 (I have to dig up a couple of dyno slips to be really accurate, but I believe I'm in the ballpark). In theory, eventhough the HP being put to the ground isn't 0 it is decreasing so gains are minimal compared when the engine is it's powerband. My car, being N2O assisted, pulls the peak HP and torque numbers from around 3000-5900. Torque curve is on it's way up @4000 and on it's way down @6500, so what's the benefit to being there? My dyno numbers and track numbers confirm that the car puts down the best HP and torque in the heart of the powerband and not at the redline+ realm. My tranny ecu does the 1-2 @redline and the 2-3 almost at redline. Race is over after that. I have other gauges to watch, track, lights, etc during the race, so since the stock tranny gets me very close to optimal already why add another gauge to watch to time the shifts? To gain a couple of tenths? I can get those same couple of tenths back by dropping my tire pressure to help traction or changing a couple of jets around in the N2O setup.

Personally, I put it in D with the o/d button off. Slightly torque brake (around 1000-1500), watch the light, 3rd yellow nail the gas/take foot off the brakes, wait for n/a tire spin to stop, hit the button, watch the gauges so I don't go boom, and enjoy the ride. It's gotten me to now consistent 13.8-13.9 with a best of 13.7's @ 105mph with 2.10 60' times at the track. I must be doing something right. Right?

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

If I had nitrous, I wouldn't manually shift either, because you are making plenty of power, but on my car still being N/A I try to get every tiny little bit of performance out of it I can. Your method looks good, as that is what I do except I manually shift. When I leave it in D my times are a tenth or two off. You have one of the best times for an auto with a 70 shot, so you are doing it right. You run faster than many with 100 shot. I am apparently doing something right too though because I am one of 2 automatics on the board that I know of that have run 14's N/A in an auto. You have tranny work done so maybe yours shifts closer to redline than mine, but all I have is the VB mod. BTW, when the weather cools off you Atlanta guys still need to come to Steele with us and run, cause it is a fast track.

JAIMECBR900

I have heard that Steele is a lot faster than my normal track, Commerce. You are correct. The N2O does change things a lot since one of the other main reasons I don't manually shift is that I would tear stuff up if I happen to hit the rev limiter while spraying. That's a huge no no. BTW, you were absolutely correct about manual 1-2 and then leaving the 2-3 to the ecu. I learned something new today. Old dogs can learn new tricks. I think that sometimes in our haste to express ourselves we come off like jerks. I don't mean to sound like that at all. I'm trying to explain that for the majority of the time and majority of people it is difficult to take over for the ecu to maximize your performance in 15 secs. I know there a people that have both exp. and know their car enough to make it work for them, but the odds of hitting it on the nose are more against you than not. Personally between watching the tree, watching the gauges, engaging the N2O, watching the track, adrenaline rushing, and driving it is one less thing for me to make sure I shift at exactly 5875. Know what I mean?....

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

I hear you and agree 100%...what works best for some doesn't work the best for others. For most people, I would say leave the auto in drive and don't worry about one more thing, like you said. I am not trying to be a jerk either, although I come across the wrong way to alot of people sometimes. I thought you were a nice guy when we met at Stone mountain, I knew your weren't flaming me.

JAIMECBR900

Cool. I forgot about that. Met so many new people that day, I'm still trying to put names with faces. Is your car the one that looked identical to mine from Ala.?

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

Looks just like yours, except TN not AL.

JetBlackMax

iTrader: (12)

Ok, I wasnt tryna take my point into any Damaging Replys. This is what it goes for in my Opinion. For some reason, When I manually shift I get (Faster) not by much, but theres a diffrence, then lettin the car do it itself.

And about the car shifting at 4500 - 5000rpm.....You might be right there, Im not sure about the WOT part, but im pretty sure im right. Thats when my car seems to shift. So I manually do it. Better times have occured for me, and I only have INtake and Exhaust Tip. But im getin the Franken Car Intake so I can have a Hybrid. I lost lots of Low End power and wanna bring it back. So Then I can take a trip to the track and see where I currently stand. I didnt mean anything rude by that Post, I was just stating that my car and most autos seem to go faster manually, then regular. even if its not much, its still faster which seems to help!