Maxspeeds on stock struts: a new problem
08-06-2002, 11:42 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Maxspeeds on stock struts: a new problem
I searched and searched but did not find...
I had Maxspeed's installed on stock struts and have experienced what may be a new problem. The lower part of the rear springs have turned out of the slot/seat on the strut plate causing the springs to bow and causing severe noises (clunking and rubber squeeking noises combined) even on flat road surfaces.
The strut plate almost appears as though it might just go up the center of the spring. It appears that the plate has too small a diameter for the inside diameter of the spring.
The mechanic says I need to at least replace the rear struts with ones that have a larger plate and/or struts that have "fingers" around the plate similar to the fronts so that the springs sit in better.
Anyone ever see or hear about this? Solutions?
Thanks,
Mark
95SE 5sp
I had Maxspeed's installed on stock struts and have experienced what may be a new problem. The lower part of the rear springs have turned out of the slot/seat on the strut plate causing the springs to bow and causing severe noises (clunking and rubber squeeking noises combined) even on flat road surfaces.
The strut plate almost appears as though it might just go up the center of the spring. It appears that the plate has too small a diameter for the inside diameter of the spring.
The mechanic says I need to at least replace the rear struts with ones that have a larger plate and/or struts that have "fingers" around the plate similar to the fronts so that the springs sit in better.
Anyone ever see or hear about this? Solutions?
Thanks,
Mark
95SE 5sp
08-06-2002, 12:01 PM
#2
Re: Maxspeeds on stock struts: a new problem
Meezer,
When I was installing my AGX/Maxspeed, I did a quick comparison between the strut assembly between the two.
I recall that those two has a pretty much similar width bottom plate. I am thinking it might be the case that you did not tighten the upper bolth (piston bolt) enough, so it causes the spring to "unseat" itself?
Other than that, I also recall that rear AGX does not have the "flanges" like the front ones (which will eliminate the problem).
I have the rubber squeeky noises, but it's only when I hit a hard bump (when the rubber is compressed). I figured it's only there because the rubber is new and I forgot to bath them in oil before putting them in.
When I was installing my AGX/Maxspeed, I did a quick comparison between the strut assembly between the two.
I recall that those two has a pretty much similar width bottom plate. I am thinking it might be the case that you did not tighten the upper bolth (piston bolt) enough, so it causes the spring to "unseat" itself?
Other than that, I also recall that rear AGX does not have the "flanges" like the front ones (which will eliminate the problem).
I have the rubber squeeky noises, but it's only when I hit a hard bump (when the rubber is compressed). I figured it's only there because the rubber is new and I forgot to bath them in oil before putting them in.
Originally posted by meezer
I searched and searched but did not find...
I had Maxspeed's installed on stock struts and have experienced what may be a new problem. The lower part of the rear springs have turned out of the slot/seat on the strut plate causing the springs to bow and causing severe noises (clunking and rubber squeeking noises combined) even on flat road surfaces.
The strut plate almost appears as though it might just go up the center of the spring. It appears that the plate has too small a diameter for the inside diameter of the spring.
The mechanic says I need to at least replace the rear struts with ones that have a larger plate and/or struts that have "fingers" around the plate similar to the fronts so that the springs sit in better.
Anyone ever see or hear about this? Solutions?
Thanks,
Mark
95SE 5sp
I searched and searched but did not find...
I had Maxspeed's installed on stock struts and have experienced what may be a new problem. The lower part of the rear springs have turned out of the slot/seat on the strut plate causing the springs to bow and causing severe noises (clunking and rubber squeeking noises combined) even on flat road surfaces.
The strut plate almost appears as though it might just go up the center of the spring. It appears that the plate has too small a diameter for the inside diameter of the spring.
The mechanic says I need to at least replace the rear struts with ones that have a larger plate and/or struts that have "fingers" around the plate similar to the fronts so that the springs sit in better.
Anyone ever see or hear about this? Solutions?
Thanks,
Mark
95SE 5sp
08-06-2002, 12:13 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Re: Re: Maxspeeds on stock struts: a new problem
Thanks for the reply. The mechanic also stated that because the Maxspeed spring is shorter than the stock spring the Maxspeed is not compressed as much and therefore free to move on the strut.
True?
M
True?
M
Originally posted by ardika
Meezer,
When I was installing my AGX/Maxspeed, I did a quick comparison between the strut assembly between the two.
I recall that those two has a pretty much similar width bottom plate. I am thinking it might be the case that you did not tighten the upper bolth (piston bolt) enough, so it causes the spring to "unseat" itself?
Other than that, I also recall that rear AGX does not have the "flanges" like the front ones (which will eliminate the problem).
I have the rubber squeeky noises, but it's only when I hit a hard bump (when the rubber is compressed). I figured it's only there because the rubber is new and I forgot to bath them in oil before putting them in.
Meezer,
When I was installing my AGX/Maxspeed, I did a quick comparison between the strut assembly between the two.
I recall that those two has a pretty much similar width bottom plate. I am thinking it might be the case that you did not tighten the upper bolth (piston bolt) enough, so it causes the spring to "unseat" itself?
Other than that, I also recall that rear AGX does not have the "flanges" like the front ones (which will eliminate the problem).
I have the rubber squeeky noises, but it's only when I hit a hard bump (when the rubber is compressed). I figured it's only there because the rubber is new and I forgot to bath them in oil before putting them in.
08-06-2002, 12:51 PM
#4
I think you need to find another mechanic!! The reason it slipped off the strut plate is because he installed them upside down. In the rear the coils are wound a little tighter and are closer at the bottom. They fit on the strut plate perfectly if the closer coils are on the bottom. All the struts available for the Max fit just like the stock ones. So changing them for different ones is not possible. Your mechanic sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to suspension. I wouldn't trust him for that anymore.
/\ -This is an example of how he probably installed them. (tighter coils at the top).
\/ - This is how they should be installed. (tighter coils at the bottom)
/\ -This is an example of how he probably installed them. (tighter coils at the top).
\/ - This is how they should be installed. (tighter coils at the bottom)
08-06-2002, 01:55 PM
#5
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Originally posted by NightRider
I think you need to find another mechanic. The reason it slipped off the strut plate is because he installed them upside down.
/\ -This is an example of how he probably installed them. (tighter coils at the top).
\/ - This is how they should be installed. (tighter coils at the bottom)
I think you need to find another mechanic. The reason it slipped off the strut plate is because he installed them upside down.
/\ -This is an example of how he probably installed them. (tighter coils at the top).
\/ - This is how they should be installed. (tighter coils at the bottom)
08-06-2002, 02:03 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Thanks
night and njmax,
thanks for the insight on the upside down install. i have to deal with this mechanic on this problem. he will re-install the correct way with no additional cost. hopefully, that cures the problem. then it's on to the next mechanic.
M
thanks for the insight on the upside down install. i have to deal with this mechanic on this problem. he will re-install the correct way with no additional cost. hopefully, that cures the problem. then it's on to the next mechanic.
M
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
BINGO NightRider! And do find another mechanic meezer. KYB, Tokico, OEM, all the deminsions are exactly the same. There is no difference in the design of the physical body of the strut/shock. Only the piston and valving are different. Your rear springs are upside down.
BINGO NightRider! And do find another mechanic meezer. KYB, Tokico, OEM, all the deminsions are exactly the same. There is no difference in the design of the physical body of the strut/shock. Only the piston and valving are different. Your rear springs are upside down.
08-06-2002, 07:36 PM
#7
...Oh No....!
Holy...!!
I thought the tighter coils are at the top portion?
I installed mine upside-down too!
I used KYB AGX...but I did not notice that the springs are slipping.
Meezer...how long does it take for your springs to slip?
Man, I thought I am done with suspension mods.....
I thought the tighter coils are at the top portion?
I installed mine upside-down too!
I used KYB AGX...but I did not notice that the springs are slipping.
Meezer...how long does it take for your springs to slip?
Man, I thought I am done with suspension mods.....
Originally posted by meezer
night and njmax,
thanks for the insight on the upside down install. i have to deal with this mechanic on this problem. he will re-install the correct way with no additional cost. hopefully, that cures the problem. then it's on to the next mechanic.
M
night and njmax,
thanks for the insight on the upside down install. i have to deal with this mechanic on this problem. he will re-install the correct way with no additional cost. hopefully, that cures the problem. then it's on to the next mechanic.
M
08-06-2002, 07:53 PM
#8
Re: ...Oh No....!
I just went down to the garage and checked the spring/strut mounts. Seems to me that the spring is still in its proper place. And it's been on the assembly close to 3 months (and on the car for 4 weeks).
I will check the assembly again from time to time, and when it comes to "awright, got to do it", I will re-do my rear springs.
I found it interesting that we have to install the rear springs this way, since when I bought my AGX/Maxspeed, the spring with tighter coils on the bottom part does not seem to be "right".
But..hey...live and learn.....
I will check the assembly again from time to time, and when it comes to "awright, got to do it", I will re-do my rear springs.
I found it interesting that we have to install the rear springs this way, since when I bought my AGX/Maxspeed, the spring with tighter coils on the bottom part does not seem to be "right".
But..hey...live and learn.....
08-06-2002, 08:38 PM
#11
Re: JetBlackMax,
Originally posted by ardika
What kind of problem you have been encountering, if I may ask?
What kind of problem you have been encountering, if I may ask?
Thanx
08-06-2002, 09:14 PM
#12
Hey,
It's nice to make someone feel happier...
....and I am interested in knowing your problem so that I could prevent it.
I assembled brand new sets for my 4 corners (I purchased other parts from the suspension so that I could keep the assembly of my stock struts/shocks intact). So what I did was assemble all 4 corners at home, and swap them later. Before I assemble entire 4 corner, I test fit everything, including the rear struts/spring. I also wrap them in plastic wrap 1/5 inch diameter for each end, and those tighter coils.
Since then, I monitored my suspension closely and all I could complain was there is this noise of "eeek!" whenever I hit a hard bump. I figured that the noise was caused by the tighter coils rubbing each other, and, the rubber parts need to have a "break-down period".
I don't have low rumble noise....but this thread got me worried. I don't want to replace AGX because it is bent when the spring not seated properly. Granted, doing the rears again might only take about 2 hours top, but still.....I would prefer driving the car more than working on it.
Tomorrow I will carry 4 people for a 150 mile trip. I will check if there is some symptoms of the spring being "unseated". If they do, then I will have to borrow a spring compressor and re-do my springs once again.
....and I am interested in knowing your problem so that I could prevent it.I assembled brand new sets for my 4 corners (I purchased other parts from the suspension so that I could keep the assembly of my stock struts/shocks intact). So what I did was assemble all 4 corners at home, and swap them later. Before I assemble entire 4 corner, I test fit everything, including the rear struts/spring. I also wrap them in plastic wrap 1/5 inch diameter for each end, and those tighter coils.
Since then, I monitored my suspension closely and all I could complain was there is this noise of "eeek!" whenever I hit a hard bump. I figured that the noise was caused by the tighter coils rubbing each other, and, the rubber parts need to have a "break-down period".
I don't have low rumble noise....but this thread got me worried. I don't want to replace AGX because it is bent when the spring not seated properly. Granted, doing the rears again might only take about 2 hours top, but still.....I would prefer driving the car more than working on it.
Tomorrow I will carry 4 people for a 150 mile trip. I will check if there is some symptoms of the spring being "unseated". If they do, then I will have to borrow a spring compressor and re-do my springs once again.
Originally posted by JetBlackMax
Hey bud, I didnt think anyone would reply about me, but thanx, i can express it now LOL. umm, THe problme is, my right back Strut or wheel well area makes a low rumble noise when I hit bumps. Or even arcelerate! It sounds like a vibration noise. Me adn my bro checked the strut and spring, found no problems. Its only from that Right Back side. Im not sure what it could be.
Thanx
Hey bud, I didnt think anyone would reply about me, but thanx, i can express it now LOL. umm, THe problme is, my right back Strut or wheel well area makes a low rumble noise when I hit bumps. Or even arcelerate! It sounds like a vibration noise. Me adn my bro checked the strut and spring, found no problems. Its only from that Right Back side. Im not sure what it could be.
Thanx
08-06-2002, 09:44 PM
#13
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Ummmmm....the tighter coils should go at the top. Closer spaced springs means that's the stiffest part of the springs. You want the further spaced coils on the bottom because that's where the impact of a bump is first encountered. Further spaced coils give that "stock" ride over mild bumps and the tighter coils help handling. Every other spring on the market mounts this way.
BTW, the mechanic sounds like an idiot. No matter what you do, the springs aren't going to "slide" around when going down the street because the springs are already compressed a good bit (~4") when you lower the car off the jack.
Dave
BTW, the mechanic sounds like an idiot. No matter what you do, the springs aren't going to "slide" around when going down the street because the springs are already compressed a good bit (~4") when you lower the car off the jack.
Dave
08-06-2002, 10:07 PM
#14
Hmm.....
Dave,
Thank you for your answer. I thought the same thing too, since I know that people with H&R mounts their tightly spaced coils on the top portion.
I have been thnking about putting it the other way (tight coils on the bottom), but I did not see why it would help to prevent spring slipping since, as you stated, the spring is compressed when the car is unmounted from jackstands.
Plus, I just remembered something...the AGX has a bit of a "lip" on the inside to keep the spring centered. The lip is more like a elevated center section, but I am sure this will give enough support to keep the spring centered.
Thank you for your answer. I thought the same thing too, since I know that people with H&R mounts their tightly spaced coils on the top portion.
I have been thnking about putting it the other way (tight coils on the bottom), but I did not see why it would help to prevent spring slipping since, as you stated, the spring is compressed when the car is unmounted from jackstands.
Plus, I just remembered something...the AGX has a bit of a "lip" on the inside to keep the spring centered. The lip is more like a elevated center section, but I am sure this will give enough support to keep the spring centered.
Originally posted by Dave B
Ummmmm....the tighter coils should go at the top. Closer spaced springs means that's the stiffest part of the springs. You want the further spaced coils on the bottom because that's where the impact of a bump is first encountered. Further spaced coils give that "stock" ride over mild bumps and the tighter coils help handling. Every other spring on the market mounts this way.
BTW, the mechanic sounds like an idiot. No matter what you do, the springs aren't going to "slide" around when going down the street because the springs are already compressed a good bit (~4") when you lower the car off the jack.
Dave
Ummmmm....the tighter coils should go at the top. Closer spaced springs means that's the stiffest part of the springs. You want the further spaced coils on the bottom because that's where the impact of a bump is first encountered. Further spaced coils give that "stock" ride over mild bumps and the tighter coils help handling. Every other spring on the market mounts this way.
BTW, the mechanic sounds like an idiot. No matter what you do, the springs aren't going to "slide" around when going down the street because the springs are already compressed a good bit (~4") when you lower the car off the jack.
Dave
08-07-2002, 05:25 AM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Re: Hmm.....
Ok dudes, here we have a picture from ebay. Is the spring oriented in the picture the way it should be mounted on the car with the lettering right side up and the more narrow coil (with larger spacing between coils) towards the bottom?
Turn this picture upside down and that is how mine are installed. That does not seem correct.
M
Turn this picture upside down and that is how mine are installed. That does not seem correct.
M
08-07-2002, 05:35 AM
#16
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Re: Re: Hmm.....
Let me clear a few things up here. We have an interpretation problem going on in this thread. The spring below is positioned correctly. This is how it should be installed. By tighter coils down, were talking about the smaller diameter coils. Look closely at the last coil (bottom) on the spring. The last coil is wound smaller then the rest of the coils. Thats what is ment by tighter coils.
The top coils are closer together, not wound tighter. The rear springs must have the tighter or smaller wound coils on the bottom. The closely spaced coils always go on top.
The top coils are closer together, not wound tighter. The rear springs must have the tighter or smaller wound coils on the bottom. The closely spaced coils always go on top.
08-07-2002, 05:45 AM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Re: Re: Re: Hmm.....
Makes sense to me. Mine were installed incorrectly, which is why they are making horrendous noises. Now I have to go down to the buffoon who put them in and inform him of his error in a nice enough way so he doesn't give me $&*^ about correcting his blunder. 
M
[QUOTE]Originally posted by njmaxseltd
[B]Let me clear a few things up here. We have an interpretation problem going on in this thread. The spring below is positioned correctly. This is how it should be installed. By tighter coils down, were talking about the smaller diameter coils. Look closely at the last coil (bottom) on the spring. The last coil is wound smaller then the rest of the coils. Thats what is ment by tighter coils.
The top coils are closer together, not wound tighter. The rear springs must have the tighter or smaller wound coils on the bottom. The closely spaced coils always go on top.
M
[QUOTE]Originally posted by njmaxseltd
[B]Let me clear a few things up here. We have an interpretation problem going on in this thread. The spring below is positioned correctly. This is how it should be installed. By tighter coils down, were talking about the smaller diameter coils. Look closely at the last coil (bottom) on the spring. The last coil is wound smaller then the rest of the coils. Thats what is ment by tighter coils.
The top coils are closer together, not wound tighter. The rear springs must have the tighter or smaller wound coils on the bottom. The closely spaced coils always go on top.
08-07-2002, 06:39 AM
#19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm.....
Originally posted by meezer
By the way - should I be worried about the front struts being installed upside down? I seem to remember them being (can I say?) symetrical.
M
By the way - should I be worried about the front struts being installed upside down? I seem to remember them being (can I say?) symetrical.
M
08-07-2002, 12:11 PM
#21
Meezer,
I concur with you.....the closer-spaced springs are on the top part. That's how I installed mine.
Now, here is the thing....that picture did not seem to be the one I have for my 97. The bottom part of mine has the same diameter as the top.... but mine fit perfectly though.
Now, here is the thing....that picture did not seem to be the one I have for my 97. The bottom part of mine has the same diameter as the top.... but mine fit perfectly though.
Originally posted by WizzaMax
The lettering must read as you look at the spring...not upside down.
The lettering must read as you look at the spring...not upside down.
08-07-2002, 12:16 PM
#22
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 152
Re: Meezer,
I have a '95. Maybe there's a difference. Yeah?
M
M
Originally posted by ardika
I concur with you.....the closer-spaced springs are on the top part. That's how I installed mine.
Now, here is the thing....that picture did not seem to be the one I have for my 97. The bottom part of mine has the same diameter as the top.... but mine fit perfectly though.
I concur with you.....the closer-spaced springs are on the top part. That's how I installed mine.
Now, here is the thing....that picture did not seem to be the one I have for my 97. The bottom part of mine has the same diameter as the top.... but mine fit perfectly though.
08-07-2002, 07:27 PM
#23
Re: Re: Meezer,
Hmm....perhaps, but I thought the spring and strut is for 95-99 Max. That's strange....mine only have closer spaced springs on the top, BUT not smaller diameter on the bottom.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Originally posted by meezer
I have a '95. Maybe there's a difference. Yeah?
M
I have a '95. Maybe there's a difference. Yeah?
M
08-07-2002, 07:33 PM
#24
Need opinions
I'm about to buy the maxspeed springs from the group deal on this forum ($115 shipped, can't beat that with a stick). Assuming that the springs are installed perfectly with stock shocks and struts, how much of a bad ride am I going to have. The stock shocks/struts have around 91k on them. Will they bust right away? Will they last for a while till i can afford new ones? Let me knwo so I know what to expect. Thanks 
08-07-2002, 07:40 PM
#25
D1NOnly34,
When I bought my Max, it was at 89k. I noticed that the struts are dead (harsh ride) at around 105k.
Your have 91k, so I believe it will last until 105k (if they are original). You might want to wait until you could buy new struts, but I believe the stock struts are fine until around 110k plus minus 10% (typical life for struts).
Your have 91k, so I believe it will last until 105k (if they are original). You might want to wait until you could buy new struts, but I believe the stock struts are fine until around 110k plus minus 10% (typical life for struts).
Originally posted by D1NOnly34
I'm about to buy the maxspeed springs from the group deal on this forum ($115 shipped, can't beat that with a stick). Assuming that the springs are installed perfectly with stock shocks and struts, how much of a bad ride am I going to have. The stock shocks/struts have around 91k on them. Will they bust right away? Will they last for a while till i can afford new ones? Let me knwo so I know what to expect. Thanks
I'm about to buy the maxspeed springs from the group deal on this forum ($115 shipped, can't beat that with a stick). Assuming that the springs are installed perfectly with stock shocks and struts, how much of a bad ride am I going to have. The stock shocks/struts have around 91k on them. Will they bust right away? Will they last for a while till i can afford new ones? Let me knwo so I know what to expect. Thanks
08-07-2002, 07:43 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,308
Re: Need opinions
Originally posted by D1NOnly34
I'm about to buy the maxspeed springs from the group deal on this forum ($115 shipped, can't beat that with a stick). Assuming that the springs are installed perfectly with stock shocks and struts, how much of a bad ride am I going to have. The stock shocks/struts have around 91k on them. Will they bust right away? Will they last for a while till i can afford new ones? Let me knwo so I know what to expect. Thanks
I'm about to buy the maxspeed springs from the group deal on this forum ($115 shipped, can't beat that with a stick). Assuming that the springs are installed perfectly with stock shocks and struts, how much of a bad ride am I going to have. The stock shocks/struts have around 91k on them. Will they bust right away? Will they last for a while till i can afford new ones? Let me knwo so I know what to expect. Thanks
08-11-2002, 03:44 AM
#27
Hmmm....great education about suspension...
So can the Maxspeed springs be used with the rest of the stock suspension? (don't have enough cash for better struts) What else would be needed to make it happen?
So can the Maxspeed springs be used with the rest of the stock suspension? (don't have enough cash for better struts) What else would be needed to make it happen?
08-11-2002, 06:14 AM
#28
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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Nightrider is correct he installed them upside down. There is no way your spring will pop out of place, the spring has enough force in there to keep the spring in place. He installed the spring upside down!!!!so flip them over.
I thought my intrax spring was too big for my rear Koni cup but once I flipped the spring over upside down it went right in for a snug fit.
I thought my intrax spring was too big for my rear Koni cup but once I flipped the spring over upside down it went right in for a snug fit.
08-14-2002, 01:01 PM
#30
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Re-install completed
So, I got it all fixed up. The mechanic still gave me a load of crap about how he didn't think they went in any better, blah, blah. But I can tell by looking at them that they are now installed correctly.
Anyone looking for the real slammed look, don't go with the Maxspeeds. I like the drop - they put the Max where it should have been to start, but if you are looking for that REAL LOWERED look, don't go with the Maxspeeds.
By the way, the ride is real close to stock (I'm using stock struts) with just a bit more of that rolling-type bounce.
Mark
95SE 5sp
Anyone looking for the real slammed look, don't go with the Maxspeeds. I like the drop - they put the Max where it should have been to start, but if you are looking for that REAL LOWERED look, don't go with the Maxspeeds.
By the way, the ride is real close to stock (I'm using stock struts) with just a bit more of that rolling-type bounce.
Mark
95SE 5sp
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