5 speed powerhandling
08-22-2002, 11:38 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 482
5 speed powerhandling
i searched the faq's, and used the search function, so please bare with me.
how much power will the 4th gen 5 speed tranny handle long-term? and are there any kits to beef them up, or are we stuck just fixing them WHEN they break?
thanx,
eric
how much power will the 4th gen 5 speed tranny handle long-term? and are there any kits to beef them up, or are we stuck just fixing them WHEN they break?
thanx,
eric
08-23-2002, 08:55 AM
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,530
Apparently there is a kit to change the gear ratio to 4.11 or 4.73 I dont remember the specifics of the final drive. As for beefing them up, the only thing short of getting an entire transmission made is cryogenic treatment, which I have done on my car. Although my car does not have mega HP, I blew second gear before and do not want it to happen again. I have no clue if any other tranny's fit the car.
08-23-2002, 10:47 AM
#5
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from what i recall, they dip your parts in liquid nitrogen (for about 24 hrs), and then let it "thaw"...and it straightens the metal molecules, and makes it so they are stronger.
am i remembering correctly?
eric
am i remembering correctly?
eric
08-23-2002, 12:12 PM
#7
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Posts: 482
Originally posted by norton2099
what happens when you blow a gear? does it just not exist when you shift to 2nd?
what happens when you blow a gear? does it just not exist when you shift to 2nd?
eric
08-23-2002, 02:30 PM
#9
Look at MardiGras Max
He's got a 98 5-speed with SC,NOS and VI. Talk about loaded. 350+ hp to the wheels.
The 4th gen manual tranny's weakness looks to be un-related to power anyway. The bearings are the weakness. Bad design. They'll go bad even on a stock car.
If I were to cryogenically treat my 5-speed I would just do the bearings. Maybe the synchros as well. All the other parts seem to be OK.
DW
The 4th gen manual tranny's weakness looks to be un-related to power anyway. The bearings are the weakness. Bad design. They'll go bad even on a stock car.
If I were to cryogenically treat my 5-speed I would just do the bearings. Maybe the synchros as well. All the other parts seem to be OK.
DW
08-23-2002, 04:25 PM
#10
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,082
bearings would not benifit from cryogenic processing, in fact they would probably be ruined. the only things that can go trough this process is solid non-moving individual pieces, like the gears and drive shaft. this process makes these pieces harder and less prone to breaking (shreading) under high loads.
08-23-2002, 05:20 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 317
6 spd?
I remember reading a thread a while back about doing a 6-spd swap from a 2k2 Max. Once these parts start showing up in junk yards and elsewhere and it becomes more economically fiesable, would this tranny work? I seem to remember there might be some differences like cable versus hydraulic (???). If this tranny does fit, is it stronger? I'd assume it could hold more power than our stock 5-spd because the stock 2k2 has 255 hp and 246 tq. Any thoughts?
08-23-2002, 11:15 PM
#15
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Posts: 230
Re: Look at MardiGras Max
Originally posted by dwapenyi
The 4th gen manual tranny's weakness looks to be un-related to power anyway. The bearings are the weakness. Bad design. They'll go bad even on a stock car.
The 4th gen manual tranny's weakness looks to be un-related to power anyway. The bearings are the weakness. Bad design. They'll go bad even on a stock car.
08-24-2002, 10:07 AM
#16
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,530
You CAN cryotreat the bearings. After all they are hardened metal. For more info this is where I did mine http://www.cryogenicprocessing.com/
Things I would do to improve the tranny:
1) Make it easier to change the gear ratio's of individual gears
2) Make it less notchy
3) Make reverse with a less tendency to stick
4) Loose the fact how the car almost refuses to go into 1st gear when its moving.
5) Get somebody to shim the bearings right so they dont blow up.
6) Cable driven shifter
7) add 6th gear
guess the last 2 were done.
Things I would do to improve the tranny:
1) Make it easier to change the gear ratio's of individual gears
2) Make it less notchy
3) Make reverse with a less tendency to stick
4) Loose the fact how the car almost refuses to go into 1st gear when its moving.
5) Get somebody to shim the bearings right so they dont blow up.
6) Cable driven shifter
7) add 6th gear
guess the last 2 were done.
08-24-2002, 10:31 AM
#20
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
08-24-2002, 10:32 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,530
Originally posted by dwapenyi
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
08-24-2002, 12:38 PM
#23
Originally posted by dwapenyi
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
08-24-2002, 05:52 PM
#27
I could never find it at local stores either, but on-line it's everywhere, like here;
http://myoilshop.com/MTF.html
DW
http://myoilshop.com/MTF.html
DW
Originally posted by tmkforever
Where do you guys get the MT-90? I've looked around at Pep Boys and AutoZone and I can't find any...what's the deal? Thanks.
Where do you guys get the MT-90? I've looked around at Pep Boys and AutoZone and I can't find any...what's the deal? Thanks.
08-24-2002, 07:41 PM
#28
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 317
Originally posted by dwapenyi
I could never find it at local stores either, but on-line it's everywhere, like here;
http://myoilshop.com/MTF.html
DW
I could never find it at local stores either, but on-line it's everywhere, like here;
http://myoilshop.com/MTF.html
DW
08-25-2002, 12:08 AM
#29
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I have no problems going into 1st from a roll. All you have to do is put it in neutral, blip the throttle, and it goes right in. I use the factory gear oil too. BUT why go into 1st from low mph roll anyways? The VQ has plenty of torque to accelerate from 2nd gear from a 5 mph roll. The only time I use 1st is from a dead stop or a slow roll and I have to go up a hill. In cooler weather, my car is more than happy to start out in 2nd from a dead stop.
The 5 speed is actually pretty strong, it's the driver that makes the difference. Mardigas is pushing serious power on his stock tranny with no problems. Lots of others are doing the same. The stock clutch is also pretty strong. Mine has over 85K miles and over 100 1/4 mile passes and has never slipped once.
If you constantly abuse a tranny with burnouts, WOT shifts, and generally poor rev matching throttle use, you will kill any tranny, no matter how strong.
Dave
The 5 speed is actually pretty strong, it's the driver that makes the difference. Mardigas is pushing serious power on his stock tranny with no problems. Lots of others are doing the same. The stock clutch is also pretty strong. Mine has over 85K miles and over 100 1/4 mile passes and has never slipped once.
If you constantly abuse a tranny with burnouts, WOT shifts, and generally poor rev matching throttle use, you will kill any tranny, no matter how strong.
Dave
08-25-2002, 08:01 AM
#30
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 317
Originally posted by Dave B
I have no problems going into 1st from a roll. All you have to do is put it in neutral, blip the throttle, and it goes right in. I use the factory gear oil too. BUT why go into 1st from low mph roll anyways? The VQ has plenty of torque to accelerate from 2nd gear from a 5 mph roll. The only time I use 1st is from a dead stop or a slow roll and I have to go up a hill. In cooler weather, my car is more than happy to start out in 2nd from a dead stop.
I have no problems going into 1st from a roll. All you have to do is put it in neutral, blip the throttle, and it goes right in. I use the factory gear oil too. BUT why go into 1st from low mph roll anyways? The VQ has plenty of torque to accelerate from 2nd gear from a 5 mph roll. The only time I use 1st is from a dead stop or a slow roll and I have to go up a hill. In cooler weather, my car is more than happy to start out in 2nd from a dead stop.
08-25-2002, 08:31 AM
#31
Originally posted by dwapenyi
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
For you guys complaining of notchiness, have you ever tried Red-Line MT-90?? It's a GL-4 synthetic tranny fluid. REALLY helps the notchiness. Much better than stock. You can put it into 1st from a roll, reverse is more responsive, etc.
Whatever tranny fluid you put in there, make sure it's GL-4 , NOT GL-5.
DW
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