Detailing / Scratch Removal / Paint Cleaning Info
08-30-2002, 03:56 PM
#1
Detailing / Scratch Removal / Paint Cleaning Info
I've seen a lot of people asking about scratch removal lately, so I figured I would repost this and add some new info. I'm not an expert, but this is the info I've been able to synthesize from a lot of research from a lot of different sources and pain old trial and error. Tons of this info is from Car Care Online (link below) so check out that site if you want to get it straight from the horse's mouth. One important thing to remember is that the goal of detailing is to deal with problems using the least aggressive means possible. For example, if you have a minor scratch, it's better to hit it with a few rounds of light polish by hand, than one round of heavy polish applied with a machine.
Anyway, I'm sure other people have different techniques and stuff (post them!...I'm always trying to learn) but I figured that maybe some of this info could help people out.
Cleaning / Scratch Removal
Here are the steps more or less in order. Some of the stuff (Chemical Cleaner, Polish, and Glaze) could go in a different order...I'm still experimenting with this.
Wash - Cleans basic dirt off the paint. You want to use real car wash (not dish detergent...that will strip off wax), and don't use much of it. Especially after you have polished/waxed your car you should use just a little tiny bit of wash...there is no need to get super-sudsy water.
Chemical cleaner such as Zymol HD Cleanse - Not a lot of people use products like this, but after seeing what it did to the color on my Forest Green Max, I use it about once a year. It cleans oxidation and contaminates off your paint VERY WELL.
Polish - Removes Wax, contaminates, and clearcoat/paint. It gets scratches out of your paint by removing a very little bit of the top layer of paint. If you use polish, you MUST wax AFTER you polish, since the polish will remove the wax. Swirl marks are tiny scratches in the clear coat, polish removes these by removing the clearcoat around the scratches, making the surface level again. Some people refer to this as compound, but I always heard that compound referred to MUCH more abrasive products that people used before clearcoat finishes. Clearcoat is much more delicate than older paints, and requires much more gentle products. So, you may hear people call it "compound" but just be careful that WHATEVER it is is safe for your clearcoat finish.
Glaze - A light polish that's good for minor problems like swirl marks. 3m Imerial Hand Glaze is supposed to be the best. I am currently using their machine glaze since I use a buffer.
Clay Bar - Cleans off any remaining contaminates after you polish. I think some people may use this before they polish, but since I really don't like clay bars that much I don't know. I see a lot of people on this board swearing by the clay bar, but this says that that may not be the best advice. Personally, I haven't really had much luck with clay, so I just use polish.
Wax - Protects your paint and makes it look good. This absoloutly must be the last step any time you work on your paint. The wax protects the paint from contaminates and dirt. It will make cleaning the car easier. One thing I may be experimenting with soon is using a GOOD synthetic wax for better sealing properties and then using a good carnuba wax over it for appearance. I'm not sure though, sice Zymol's marketing hype says that it's better to use natural wax that nourishes the paint and doesn't seal it too much...but I think it's probably okay as long as you buy from a reputable wax manufacturer. By the way, any wax that says it's 100% carnumba is lying to you, and is probably garbage. Pure carnuba would scrape the paint off your car. High quality "hard" waxes like Zymol contain about 37% carnumba.
Cleaner Wax - Wax with a small amount of polish in it, some people use this if they're too lazy to do separate polish and wax sessions or just to do a quick touchup on their paint.
Once you are satisfied with how your paint looks (i.e. all swirls and scratches are taken out), a detailing session would consist of just washing then waxing...you don't need to polish or clay bar or anything if there are no scratches or anything you want to get out. It's good to build up a couple coats over a few months to really protect the paint. You don't have to wax every time you wash by any means, just wax once in awhile and try to build up a few coats.
Shortcuts
Buffers - I use a buffer, but you have to be careful. RANDOM ORBITAL buffers using foam pads are pretty freakin' safe. I've never managed to burn my paint with this. Regular buffers that just spin are dangerous and probably best left to professionals. It's not hard to burn your paint with these. The advantage of them is that they're really fast, but it just not worth it for the average car owner.
Cleaner Wax - As I mentioned before this is Wax with a little polish in it. It's okay to use, especially for people who aren't that into detailing and want a quick fix. You still want to use a good brand of cleaner wax though...Autozone garbage won't cut it.
Wax/Wash Combo - Doesn't work, doesn't last, doesn't look good. You have to use a separate wax if you want your car to look good and be protected.
Drying
Drying is something that I've been having problems with. I have been getting swirl marks in my paint every summer, and I'm starting to think that it's the 100% cotton bath towels I use to dry it. There are a couple of options: Chamois and Sqeegee. I was talking to a dude who details Ferraris/Lamborghinis lately, who was using a squeegee, and he said it worked great. I am currently trying a product called the "Absorber"...a man made chamois...on the recommendation of the dude at the local Auto Body Supply store. If the swirls stay away this will be my permanent drying solution.
Rags
The best rags to use for anything (buffing off wax/polish etc.) are 100% cotton terry cloth towels. Any synthetic fibers will definitely give you swirl marks. The Terry cloth gives the dirt some place to go, so it doesn't get grinded into the paint. They also seem to help make taking wax/polish off easier. I find the best thing to do is just go buy "reject" towels at a place like Bed Bath and Beyond...they're big, their cotton, and they work great. You want to wash them WITHOUT FABRIC SOFTENER and WITHOUT DRYER SHEETS as fabric softener will contribute to getting streaks after you wax.
Interior
Vinyl - Armor All is garbage...it's not even good for the vinyl. There's a product called Marine 303 that works much better (and looks good on the black plastic on the 4th gen center console). According to the Auto Body Supply store I just visited there's some new products from a company called Auto-Tech or something like that, which are also supposed to be good. I will eventually get around to trying them.
Smelly Interior - Using a carpet cleaner on your interior works GREAT and gets tons of dirt out that won't vacuum out.
Tires
Stuff like Black Magic Tire wet is silicone based and bad for your tires. It sucks, I know, since it's hard to find anything that's good for the rubber that gives the insane shine that tire wet does. I'm currently using a product from 3m...it doesn't make them look quite as good as tire wet, but at least it's good for the rubber.
Buying
The best tip I've gotten recently is to look for "Auto Body Supply" stores...they usually have good stuff and knowledgeable people.
Here are some links to buy the good detailing products....
Griot's Garage - Make excellent polish, waxing pads, and everything you could want for detailing. Their "Best of Show" Wax is also good if you don't want to put that much work into waxing. You can even apply it with a machine if you want. They also sell my Porter Cable Buffer.
Zymol - Makes excellent waxes and HD Cleanse chemical cleaner. The Carbon wax is good for dark colors, the Creame wax for light colors. The stuff is expensive but you get WAY more applications out of a single container, so the price is really the same as the Autozone garbage. Looks like they have an online store now, so you can order direct from Zymol.
Car Care Online - They sell tons of detailing products including Zymol, Blitz Wax, Marine 303, and tons of other stuff. There are also tutorials on how to do stuff and tons of good information on the products they sell. I've never ordered from them, but the guy seems to really know what he's talking about. I learned a lot from this site.
Zaino Brothers - Never tried their wax, but many swear by it. Looks like you can order via mail from them.
Ardex - This stuff is good, but impossible to find. It looks like you MIGHT be able to order direct from them now, but I'm not sure.
I'll edit this later if I think of anything else...
Anyway, I'm sure other people have different techniques and stuff (post them!...I'm always trying to learn) but I figured that maybe some of this info could help people out.
Cleaning / Scratch Removal
Here are the steps more or less in order. Some of the stuff (Chemical Cleaner, Polish, and Glaze) could go in a different order...I'm still experimenting with this.
Wash - Cleans basic dirt off the paint. You want to use real car wash (not dish detergent...that will strip off wax), and don't use much of it. Especially after you have polished/waxed your car you should use just a little tiny bit of wash...there is no need to get super-sudsy water.
Chemical cleaner such as Zymol HD Cleanse - Not a lot of people use products like this, but after seeing what it did to the color on my Forest Green Max, I use it about once a year. It cleans oxidation and contaminates off your paint VERY WELL.
Polish - Removes Wax, contaminates, and clearcoat/paint. It gets scratches out of your paint by removing a very little bit of the top layer of paint. If you use polish, you MUST wax AFTER you polish, since the polish will remove the wax. Swirl marks are tiny scratches in the clear coat, polish removes these by removing the clearcoat around the scratches, making the surface level again. Some people refer to this as compound, but I always heard that compound referred to MUCH more abrasive products that people used before clearcoat finishes. Clearcoat is much more delicate than older paints, and requires much more gentle products. So, you may hear people call it "compound" but just be careful that WHATEVER it is is safe for your clearcoat finish.
Glaze - A light polish that's good for minor problems like swirl marks. 3m Imerial Hand Glaze is supposed to be the best. I am currently using their machine glaze since I use a buffer.
Clay Bar - Cleans off any remaining contaminates after you polish. I think some people may use this before they polish, but since I really don't like clay bars that much I don't know. I see a lot of people on this board swearing by the clay bar, but this says that that may not be the best advice. Personally, I haven't really had much luck with clay, so I just use polish.
Wax - Protects your paint and makes it look good. This absoloutly must be the last step any time you work on your paint. The wax protects the paint from contaminates and dirt. It will make cleaning the car easier. One thing I may be experimenting with soon is using a GOOD synthetic wax for better sealing properties and then using a good carnuba wax over it for appearance. I'm not sure though, sice Zymol's marketing hype says that it's better to use natural wax that nourishes the paint and doesn't seal it too much...but I think it's probably okay as long as you buy from a reputable wax manufacturer. By the way, any wax that says it's 100% carnumba is lying to you, and is probably garbage. Pure carnuba would scrape the paint off your car. High quality "hard" waxes like Zymol contain about 37% carnumba.
Cleaner Wax - Wax with a small amount of polish in it, some people use this if they're too lazy to do separate polish and wax sessions or just to do a quick touchup on their paint.
Once you are satisfied with how your paint looks (i.e. all swirls and scratches are taken out), a detailing session would consist of just washing then waxing...you don't need to polish or clay bar or anything if there are no scratches or anything you want to get out. It's good to build up a couple coats over a few months to really protect the paint. You don't have to wax every time you wash by any means, just wax once in awhile and try to build up a few coats.
Shortcuts
Buffers - I use a buffer, but you have to be careful. RANDOM ORBITAL buffers using foam pads are pretty freakin' safe. I've never managed to burn my paint with this. Regular buffers that just spin are dangerous and probably best left to professionals. It's not hard to burn your paint with these. The advantage of them is that they're really fast, but it just not worth it for the average car owner.
Cleaner Wax - As I mentioned before this is Wax with a little polish in it. It's okay to use, especially for people who aren't that into detailing and want a quick fix. You still want to use a good brand of cleaner wax though...Autozone garbage won't cut it.
Wax/Wash Combo - Doesn't work, doesn't last, doesn't look good. You have to use a separate wax if you want your car to look good and be protected.
Drying
Drying is something that I've been having problems with. I have been getting swirl marks in my paint every summer, and I'm starting to think that it's the 100% cotton bath towels I use to dry it. There are a couple of options: Chamois and Sqeegee. I was talking to a dude who details Ferraris/Lamborghinis lately, who was using a squeegee, and he said it worked great. I am currently trying a product called the "Absorber"...a man made chamois...on the recommendation of the dude at the local Auto Body Supply store. If the swirls stay away this will be my permanent drying solution.
Rags
The best rags to use for anything (buffing off wax/polish etc.) are 100% cotton terry cloth towels. Any synthetic fibers will definitely give you swirl marks. The Terry cloth gives the dirt some place to go, so it doesn't get grinded into the paint. They also seem to help make taking wax/polish off easier. I find the best thing to do is just go buy "reject" towels at a place like Bed Bath and Beyond...they're big, their cotton, and they work great. You want to wash them WITHOUT FABRIC SOFTENER and WITHOUT DRYER SHEETS as fabric softener will contribute to getting streaks after you wax.
Interior
Vinyl - Armor All is garbage...it's not even good for the vinyl. There's a product called Marine 303 that works much better (and looks good on the black plastic on the 4th gen center console). According to the Auto Body Supply store I just visited there's some new products from a company called Auto-Tech or something like that, which are also supposed to be good. I will eventually get around to trying them.
Smelly Interior - Using a carpet cleaner on your interior works GREAT and gets tons of dirt out that won't vacuum out.
Tires
Stuff like Black Magic Tire wet is silicone based and bad for your tires. It sucks, I know, since it's hard to find anything that's good for the rubber that gives the insane shine that tire wet does. I'm currently using a product from 3m...it doesn't make them look quite as good as tire wet, but at least it's good for the rubber.
Buying
The best tip I've gotten recently is to look for "Auto Body Supply" stores...they usually have good stuff and knowledgeable people.
Here are some links to buy the good detailing products....
Griot's Garage - Make excellent polish, waxing pads, and everything you could want for detailing. Their "Best of Show" Wax is also good if you don't want to put that much work into waxing. You can even apply it with a machine if you want. They also sell my Porter Cable Buffer.
Zymol - Makes excellent waxes and HD Cleanse chemical cleaner. The Carbon wax is good for dark colors, the Creame wax for light colors. The stuff is expensive but you get WAY more applications out of a single container, so the price is really the same as the Autozone garbage. Looks like they have an online store now, so you can order direct from Zymol.
Car Care Online - They sell tons of detailing products including Zymol, Blitz Wax, Marine 303, and tons of other stuff. There are also tutorials on how to do stuff and tons of good information on the products they sell. I've never ordered from them, but the guy seems to really know what he's talking about. I learned a lot from this site.
Zaino Brothers - Never tried their wax, but many swear by it. Looks like you can order via mail from them.
Ardex - This stuff is good, but impossible to find. It looks like you MIGHT be able to order direct from them now, but I'm not sure.
I'll edit this later if I think of anything else...
08-30-2002, 04:19 PM
#2
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 317
Re: Detailing / Scratch Removal / Paint Cleaning Info
Hey, really well-thought out and written post...thanks. I can only think of a couple things to add:
I've found that when you are rinsing off the car for the final time, take off the spray nozzle from the hose and just allow the water to "flow" over your car. Imagine a long smooth waterfall instead of a spray of water. This way the water will bead up and roll right off. It will leave you with much less water to wipe off when drying and makes drying quicker. I always hate drying...for me its the hardest part of the whole sequence to do well.
I use Meguiar's Gold Class Endurance High Gloss tire protectant gel. You apply the gel with a foam pad directly to the tires for a really nice looking shine. It will last about a week. Its much easier than any spray product and it is healthy for your tires. I really love all the Meguiar's products and recommend them to everyone.
Drying
Drying is something that I've been having problems with. I have been getting swirl marks in my paint every summer, and I'm starting to think that it's the 100% cotton bath towels I use to dry it. There are a couple of options: Chamois and Sqeegee. I was talking to a dude who details Ferraris/Lamborghinis lately, who was using a squeegee, and he said it worked great. I am currently trying a product called the "Absorber"...a man made chamois...on the recommendation of the dude at the local Auto Body Supply store. If the swirls stay away this will be my permanent drying solution.
Drying is something that I've been having problems with. I have been getting swirl marks in my paint every summer, and I'm starting to think that it's the 100% cotton bath towels I use to dry it. There are a couple of options: Chamois and Sqeegee. I was talking to a dude who details Ferraris/Lamborghinis lately, who was using a squeegee, and he said it worked great. I am currently trying a product called the "Absorber"...a man made chamois...on the recommendation of the dude at the local Auto Body Supply store. If the swirls stay away this will be my permanent drying solution.
Tires
Stuff like Black Magic Tire wet is silicone based and bad for your tires. It sucks, I know, since it's hard to find anything that's good for the rubber that gives the insane shine that tire wet does. I'm currently using a product from 3m...it doesn't make them look quite as good as tire wet, but at least it's good for the rubber.
Stuff like Black Magic Tire wet is silicone based and bad for your tires. It sucks, I know, since it's hard to find anything that's good for the rubber that gives the insane shine that tire wet does. I'm currently using a product from 3m...it doesn't make them look quite as good as tire wet, but at least it's good for the rubber.
08-30-2002, 04:28 PM
#3
Most Perverted Member of the SE-L Club
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,512
as far as the swirl marks that you get from drying: Not all towels that are labeled cotton are actually 100% cotton. The only real way, besides using a microscope and such, to find out if they're real or not is to burn it. Burn the corner of it a little. If it flames up like a candle wick, it's cotton. IF it sorta melts and gives off toxic black smoke, it's a cotton/polyester mix.
Also, be very careful with a squeegee when drying. I have a friend that put two long scrathes in the roof of his S-10 because of a minor imperfection in the rubber/plastic that was almost invisble to the eye. It was only after he inspected it up close that he saw it.
Also, be very careful with a squeegee when drying. I have a friend that put two long scrathes in the roof of his S-10 because of a minor imperfection in the rubber/plastic that was almost invisble to the eye. It was only after he inspected it up close that he saw it.
08-30-2002, 05:30 PM
#4
@tmkforever - I'm gonna try that McGuire's tire stuff. Pretty much everything that comes in a spray bottle somes in a sucky one that breaks and leaks all over your hands...the gel sounds good...
@fearthegecko - Yea, I forgot to mention that towel thing in my post...good advice. That squeegee thing is what I was afraid of too, as well as the danger if there is even a small piece of dirt left on the paint...that's why I was kinda surprised to see the guy at the Ferrari place using it. He said he hadn't had any problems, but I'm still a little skeptical...guess I'll stick with the absorber for now.
@fearthegecko - Yea, I forgot to mention that towel thing in my post...good advice. That squeegee thing is what I was afraid of too, as well as the danger if there is even a small piece of dirt left on the paint...that's why I was kinda surprised to see the guy at the Ferrari place using it. He said he hadn't had any problems, but I'm still a little skeptical...guess I'll stick with the absorber for now.
08-30-2002, 06:04 PM
#5
Nice work Endus!
I wouldn't use a regular rubber squeegee but I have been using the California Waterblade for at least 6 months now and I do not have any complaints.
http://www.calcarduster.com/autoOrig...Waterblade.asp
I still use towels when drying because The Blade dosen't get all the water off. However, the Blade does save drying time.
I wouldn't use a regular rubber squeegee but I have been using the California Waterblade for at least 6 months now and I do not have any complaints.
http://www.calcarduster.com/autoOrig...Waterblade.asp
I still use towels when drying because The Blade dosen't get all the water off. However, the Blade does save drying time.
08-31-2002, 01:54 PM
#7
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,033
Great write up. You got one part backwards though. The clay bar is used first, then polish, then wax. You don't use the clay bar after you polish, you use it first to clean all the dirt off the paint. Then polish, then wax to protect. I just did the 3 step system from Mothers on my car today.
Step 1 Clay Bar
Step 2 Cleaner Wax
Step 3 Carnuba Wax
My car come out awsome! Extremely smooth with a great shine.
One note about tires. This stuff is hard to find but I sware by it.
Turtle Wax Tire Wax.
It's a thick white milky paste thats applied with a foam applicator. Shines like mad and doesn't leave the tire greasy. It's hard to find, K-Mart usually has it, I buy 3 or 4 kits at a time. Give it a try, I think you'll be very happy with it.
Also for interriors try a product called Somethin Else. Another excellent interrior dressing up that doesn't leave your dash all greasy, has a nice luster to it and best of all makes your car smell like new! They also have a product called Black Again that will make your black moldings come back to life.
Step 1 Clay Bar
Step 2 Cleaner Wax
Step 3 Carnuba Wax
My car come out awsome! Extremely smooth with a great shine.
One note about tires. This stuff is hard to find but I sware by it.
Turtle Wax Tire Wax.
It's a thick white milky paste thats applied with a foam applicator. Shines like mad and doesn't leave the tire greasy. It's hard to find, K-Mart usually has it, I buy 3 or 4 kits at a time. Give it a try, I think you'll be very happy with it.
Also for interriors try a product called Somethin Else. Another excellent interrior dressing up that doesn't leave your dash all greasy, has a nice luster to it and best of all makes your car smell like new! They also have a product called Black Again that will make your black moldings come back to life.
08-31-2002, 03:28 PM
#8
Yea, that Cal waterblade was what I meant by squeegee.
I'll have to check out the turtle wax tire stuff...although I'm always suspicious of their products since they make ****ty wax. If it doesn't have any silicone in it I'll give it a shot though...it might not if it doesn't leave the tire greasy...stuff like tire wet always leaves the tire HELLA greasy.
Also about the Black Again. Black again was supposed to be the BEST stuff for your tires (according to that carcareonline site), but I heard that they didn't make it anymore since they supposedly stole part of their formula from some other company (I wonder which company...I could get whatever they stole the formula from). Then the guy at the ferrari place told me that they DID still make it, but they had changed the forumula and that it wasn't as good anymore...very wierd.
I'll edit my post a little later on with all this new info...
I'll have to check out the turtle wax tire stuff...although I'm always suspicious of their products since they make ****ty wax. If it doesn't have any silicone in it I'll give it a shot though...it might not if it doesn't leave the tire greasy...stuff like tire wet always leaves the tire HELLA greasy.
Also about the Black Again. Black again was supposed to be the BEST stuff for your tires (according to that carcareonline site), but I heard that they didn't make it anymore since they supposedly stole part of their formula from some other company (I wonder which company...I could get whatever they stole the formula from). Then the guy at the ferrari place told me that they DID still make it, but they had changed the forumula and that it wasn't as good anymore...very wierd.
I'll edit my post a little later on with all this new info...
08-31-2002, 05:06 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 315
www.zainobros.com polish is top notch.
I use all their products on my show car and my daily driver with excellent resilts.
Cant say enough about their product. Check them out!
I use all their products on my show car and my daily driver with excellent resilts.
Cant say enough about their product. Check them out!
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