My LSD is finally installed
09-12-2002, 02:39 PM
#1
My LSD is finally installed
After 2 weeks, my LSD is finally in. It was supposed to be a 2 day job, but then Nissan kept sending the wrong seal and bearings to the shop so they couldn't reinstall it. And when they finally got the parts in, they accidentally broke a brake line putting my axles back on. But now it's finally done, and I couldn't be happier.
This thing makes a world of difference. I used to have to ease up in corners because the car would understeer, now it just pulls right through. And before, I'd always spin the tires making left/right turns, not anymore. And the launches are much improved, I can launch at a higher RPM which is good for getting the SC boosting. Before I would either bog or spin, now it just takes off.
I do notice that in slow speed stuff like parking lots, you can feel it there, it's a little harder to maneuver, not really noticable, but I was looking for it.
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, this is the LSD for 4th gen autos that my shop was working on for a long time.
As for the details, it's a mechanical type LSD, clutches, etc. Not the viscous one you can get off of I30's. Basically it's more agressive, I'm not sure how much power the I30 diff transfers, but this one will do up to 50-50 which is basically like a locked diff. So for performance purposes, this one is better.
If anyone is interested, I've got one more that's built and ready to go. Email me at sales@ap-signworks.com or call me at 770-925-8740. Retail is $1200, my price for now is $950+shipping. And there is a core charge because we need the cores for the casing. The internals are totally replaced, but we need the housing. The core charge is $250 and fully refundable as soon as we get your original diff.
This thing makes a world of difference. I used to have to ease up in corners because the car would understeer, now it just pulls right through. And before, I'd always spin the tires making left/right turns, not anymore. And the launches are much improved, I can launch at a higher RPM which is good for getting the SC boosting. Before I would either bog or spin, now it just takes off.
I do notice that in slow speed stuff like parking lots, you can feel it there, it's a little harder to maneuver, not really noticable, but I was looking for it.
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, this is the LSD for 4th gen autos that my shop was working on for a long time.
As for the details, it's a mechanical type LSD, clutches, etc. Not the viscous one you can get off of I30's. Basically it's more agressive, I'm not sure how much power the I30 diff transfers, but this one will do up to 50-50 which is basically like a locked diff. So for performance purposes, this one is better.
If anyone is interested, I've got one more that's built and ready to go. Email me at sales@ap-signworks.com or call me at 770-925-8740. Retail is $1200, my price for now is $950+shipping. And there is a core charge because we need the cores for the casing. The internals are totally replaced, but we need the housing. The core charge is $250 and fully refundable as soon as we get your original diff.
09-12-2002, 03:00 PM
#4
Re: My LSD is finally installed
Originally posted by Shadow
.I do notice that in slow speed stuff like parking lots, you can feel it there, it's a little harder to maneuver, not really noticable, but I was looking for it.
.I do notice that in slow speed stuff like parking lots, you can feel it there, it's a little harder to maneuver, not really noticable, but I was looking for it.
hmm.. isnt it supposed to turn in faster at slower / sharper speeds? i thought that was the main reason for LSD... no so much for the faster high-speed turns (like big track) but slower sharper turns (like auto-X)
09-12-2002, 04:46 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 876
Re: Re: My LSD is finally installed
Originally posted by Chebosto
hmm.. isnt it supposed to turn in faster at slower / sharper speeds? i thought that was the main reason for LSD... no so much for the faster high-speed turns (like big track) but slower sharper turns (like auto-X)
hmm.. isnt it supposed to turn in faster at slower / sharper speeds? i thought that was the main reason for LSD... no so much for the faster high-speed turns (like big track) but slower sharper turns (like auto-X)
09-12-2002, 07:31 PM
#9
Re: Re: My LSD is finally installed
I meant really slow speeds like parking a car. The steering is heavier, not a lot, but it is. But anything above 15 mph, and it's not noticable, there's just so much more traction.
Originally posted by Chebosto
hmm.. isnt it supposed to turn in faster at slower / sharper speeds? i thought that was the main reason for LSD... no so much for the faster high-speed turns (like big track) but slower sharper turns (like auto-X)
hmm.. isnt it supposed to turn in faster at slower / sharper speeds? i thought that was the main reason for LSD... no so much for the faster high-speed turns (like big track) but slower sharper turns (like auto-X)
09-12-2002, 07:32 PM
#10
Re: Re: Re: My LSD is finally installed
Currently only available for the auto. I didn't want to compete against Cattman and the Quaife because I don't know if the market will support it. If the autos sell well and there is demand for the manual, then we will consider it. The lead time isn't too bad. With the shop under new management, they found the core for me and prototyped and built this differential in 20 days. So if I had the core, 2 weeks to prototype.
Originally posted by brodaiga
is it avaliable for the manual? any group deals on these in teh future? I wonder how it would cost to install? P.S. I'm in atlanta.
is it avaliable for the manual? any group deals on these in teh future? I wonder how it would cost to install? P.S. I'm in atlanta.
09-13-2002, 03:48 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 876
Re: Re: Re: Re: My LSD is finally installed
Originally posted by Shadow
Currently only available for the auto. I didn't want to compete against Cattman and the Quaife because I don't know if the market will support it. If the autos sell well and there is demand for the manual, then we will consider it. The lead time isn't too bad. With the shop under new management, they found the core for me and prototyped and built this differential in 20 days. So if I had the core, 2 weeks to prototype.
Currently only available for the auto. I didn't want to compete against Cattman and the Quaife because I don't know if the market will support it. If the autos sell well and there is demand for the manual, then we will consider it. The lead time isn't too bad. With the shop under new management, they found the core for me and prototyped and built this differential in 20 days. So if I had the core, 2 weeks to prototype.
. 5spd SC max with VLSD will be nice, thanks.
09-17-2002, 09:02 PM
#13
That was the original plan. I'd hate to have to wait on cores like you know who and get into trouble. I'd rather take the core charge and just buy more cores if they don't send them back.
And after 5 days and 1800 miles, I'm still amazed with this thing. The car is just so different, it pulls through corners, launches so hard, and just transforms the car. I used to get terrible launches, bog at 1k, or spin at 2k. I can now launch at 2.5-3K and get into the boost immediately. There is now more wheelhop, but that was to be expected, so it's new engine mounts time, or radial arms if WSP ever gets those.
And after 5 days and 1800 miles, I'm still amazed with this thing. The car is just so different, it pulls through corners, launches so hard, and just transforms the car. I used to get terrible launches, bog at 1k, or spin at 2k. I can now launch at 2.5-3K and get into the boost immediately. There is now more wheelhop, but that was to be expected, so it's new engine mounts time, or radial arms if WSP ever gets those.
Originally posted by Finality
I'd suggest making the cores non-refundable after 2 months so that people simply dont sit on them till they decide to install.....
I'd suggest making the cores non-refundable after 2 months so that people simply dont sit on them till they decide to install.....
09-18-2002, 08:11 AM
#15
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Location: New Windsor, NY
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Originally posted by Shadow
That was the original plan. I'd hate to have to wait on cores like you know who and get into trouble. I'd rather take the core charge and just buy more cores if they don't send them back.
And after 5 days and 1800 miles, I'm still amazed with this thing. The car is just so different, it pulls through corners, launches so hard, and just transforms the car. I used to get terrible launches, bog at 1k, or spin at 2k. I can now launch at 2.5-3K and get into the boost immediately. There is now more wheelhop, but that was to be expected, so it's new engine mounts time, or radial arms if WSP ever gets those.
That was the original plan. I'd hate to have to wait on cores like you know who and get into trouble. I'd rather take the core charge and just buy more cores if they don't send them back.
And after 5 days and 1800 miles, I'm still amazed with this thing. The car is just so different, it pulls through corners, launches so hard, and just transforms the car. I used to get terrible launches, bog at 1k, or spin at 2k. I can now launch at 2.5-3K and get into the boost immediately. There is now more wheelhop, but that was to be expected, so it's new engine mounts time, or radial arms if WSP ever gets those.
09-18-2002, 09:37 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,530
I can testify to the differentials. Although I have the Quaife and I am a manual I will never drive *any* car again that does not have some sort of LSD or POSI traction. Yes they are expensive but it completely changes the way the car acts and feels (and burns out). The downfalls are 1) cost 2) time to install 3) you WILL get more wheel hop 4) you will have a tendency to do more burnouts because you will 98% the time spin both tires
10-28-2002, 10:12 PM
#18
Here's a little update, we now have the 5 spd. LSD's available for the '95-99's.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
10-29-2002, 05:52 AM
#19
Re: My LSD is finally installed
Originally posted by Shadow
As for the details, it's a mechanical type LSD, clutches, etc. Not the viscous one you can get off of I30's.
As for the details, it's a mechanical type LSD, clutches, etc. Not the viscous one you can get off of I30's.
10-29-2002, 07:37 AM
#20
Re: Re: My LSD is finally installed
It is similar to the phantom grip in that Phantom grip basically copied a clutch design minus the clutches. The same looking blocks that comprise the phantom grip are in this setup, but there are also the clutches in there. It's the same clutch type I think Cusco or Kaaz uses, I forget which one of them.
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
IIRC the VLSD has clutches and the fluid between the clutch plates produces friction as the slip is induced and thickens up and then transfers power. So yours has clutches but is not viscous? As far as true mechanical, the Quaife is true mechanical with actual gearing for transfering power. Is your similar to Phantom Grip?
IIRC the VLSD has clutches and the fluid between the clutch plates produces friction as the slip is induced and thickens up and then transfers power. So yours has clutches but is not viscous? As far as true mechanical, the Quaife is true mechanical with actual gearing for transfering power. Is your similar to Phantom Grip?
10-29-2002, 08:34 AM
#21
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Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by Shadow
Here's a little update, we now have the 5 spd. LSD's available for the '95-99's.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
Here's a little update, we now have the 5 spd. LSD's available for the '95-99's.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
. thats a good price but I cant get one now
10-29-2002, 08:50 AM
#23
You know I was just making sure you couldn't get one
We started with the Auto because that's what I have, but the 5 spd. one isn't all that different. Once they got a diff, the prototype and work went much faster.
We started with the Auto because that's what I have, but the 5 spd. one isn't all that different. Once they got a diff, the prototype and work went much faster.
Originally posted by JAY25
WTF when you first started you didnt have it for the 5 speeds now that you have it for the 5 speeds . thats a good price but I cant get one now
WTF when you first started you didnt have it for the 5 speeds now that you have it for the 5 speeds
. thats a good price but I cant get one now
10-29-2002, 09:39 AM
#24
Originally posted by Shadow
Here's a little update, we now have the 5 spd. LSD's available for the '95-99's.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
Here's a little update, we now have the 5 spd. LSD's available for the '95-99's.
And since everyone here is a cheapskate, no offense, we'll do a little introductory sale. $750 + shipping, and a $250 fully refundable core charge upon the return of a usable core. This price will be good until the end of the year.
BTW are you just trading out tranny's like I would send back my bellhousing and tranny or what exactly am I sending back that your charging a core charge for??? Thanks for answering, and about the phantom grip...I thought I had heard from people on .org that the phantom grip worked off and on and weren't really reliable...is this true...is anybody using this new LSD on a 5spd that can give us there impressions??? Thanks
-John
10-29-2002, 10:34 AM
#25
We just need the differential itself. Nothing else from your tranny. We just need it for the casing, everything inside is replaced. So we send you the new diff, you swap it out and send us back your factory one. The cost of buying a new diff is just cost prohibitive considering we don't use any internals from it at all.
I don't think anyone on the .org has the Phantom Grip, but a lot of other car forums have bad things to say about it. Celica guys, Honda guys, and DSM guys. Only good things I've heard about it are from SCC.
I don't think anyone on the .org has the Phantom Grip, but a lot of other car forums have bad things to say about it. Celica guys, Honda guys, and DSM guys. Only good things I've heard about it are from SCC.
Originally posted by Mr Cranman
Overtime here I come. I have a deadline that I need to make.
BTW are you just trading out tranny's like I would send back my bellhousing and tranny or what exactly am I sending back that your charging a core charge for??? Thanks for answering, and about the phantom grip...I thought I had heard from people on .org that the phantom grip worked off and on and weren't really reliable...is this true...is anybody using this new LSD on a 5spd that can give us there impressions??? Thanks
-John
Overtime here I come. I have a deadline that I need to make.
BTW are you just trading out tranny's like I would send back my bellhousing and tranny or what exactly am I sending back that your charging a core charge for??? Thanks for answering, and about the phantom grip...I thought I had heard from people on .org that the phantom grip worked off and on and weren't really reliable...is this true...is anybody using this new LSD on a 5spd that can give us there impressions??? Thanks
-John
10-29-2002, 10:57 AM
#26
Originally posted by Shadow
I don't think anyone on the .org has the Phantom Grip, but a lot of other car forums have bad things to say about it. Celica guys, Honda guys, and DSM guys. Only good things I've heard about it are from SCC.
I don't think anyone on the .org has the Phantom Grip, but a lot of other car forums have bad things to say about it. Celica guys, Honda guys, and DSM guys. Only good things I've heard about it are from SCC.
10-29-2002, 11:38 AM
#27
There is no fluid involved.
The LSD's use friction plates which compress against each other to
lock the differential. From what I've found, clutch type LSD's are very beefy and stand to a massive amount of torture. Also, these are adjustable in the sense that they can be shimmed to give different torque bias characteristics.
Basically, the diff is locked as long as there is no slip, and the clutches allow some slip during corners. So there isn't any degradation of performance due to heat up.
The LSD's use friction plates which compress against each other to
lock the differential. From what I've found, clutch type LSD's are very beefy and stand to a massive amount of torture. Also, these are adjustable in the sense that they can be shimmed to give different torque bias characteristics.
Basically, the diff is locked as long as there is no slip, and the clutches allow some slip during corners. So there isn't any degradation of performance due to heat up.
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
Like all but a true mechanical LSD these types will heat up and eventually stop working. I like to do back to back hot laps down the drag strip, anything but a quaife wont tolerate this, they will heat up and stop working. If you dont plan on doing heavy track work these are just fine.
Like all but a true mechanical LSD these types will heat up and eventually stop working. I like to do back to back hot laps down the drag strip, anything but a quaife wont tolerate this, they will heat up and stop working. If you dont plan on doing heavy track work these are just fine.
10-29-2002, 03:29 PM
#28
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Originally posted by Shadow
There is no fluid involved.
The LSD's use friction plates which compress against each other to
lock the differential. From what I've found, clutch type LSD's are very beefy and stand to a massive amount of torture. Also, these are adjustable in the sense that they can be shimmed to give different torque bias characteristics.
Basically, the diff is locked as long as there is no slip, and the clutches allow some slip during corners. So there isn't any degradation of performance due to heat up.
There is no fluid involved.
The LSD's use friction plates which compress against each other to
lock the differential. From what I've found, clutch type LSD's are very beefy and stand to a massive amount of torture. Also, these are adjustable in the sense that they can be shimmed to give different torque bias characteristics.
Basically, the diff is locked as long as there is no slip, and the clutches allow some slip during corners. So there isn't any degradation of performance due to heat up.
1. what is the power handling capicity of this LSD?,
2. do you think its really good for high horse power/power?
3. how long will the clutch's last?
4. is there any type of warranty.
5. once the unit heats up will the plates stop working and loose
the LSD function?
6. after 10 back to back runs down the 1/4 mile if the
unit is too hot to will it still work properly?
I am thinking of getting one me a LSD, but next time I drop my tranny I am upgrading my clutch flywheel and this right here
.
10-29-2002, 06:14 PM
#29
Originally posted by JAY25
Shadow quick questions big guy?
1. what is the power handling capicity of this LSD?,
Well, on the other LSD's, we've run them on 600 hp 300ZX's, a 400 hp Civic, and lots of other turbo'd or nitroused cars.
2. do you think its really good for high horse power/power?
I think it's good for high hp cars because like I said before, we've tested these units on some high hp cars.
3. how long will the clutch's last?
The clutches have gone over 100K on our test cars and we haven't had to replace a clutch yet, so I don't know how long they last exactly, but it's a long time.
4. is there any type of warranty.
There is a lifetime warranty on these units.
5. once the unit heats up will the plates stop working and loose
the LSD function?
We've never had a unit stop functioning due to heat. On the dragstrip, the units don't heat up that much. Due to the desgin, the units are on full lock until slip is detected, and then the clutches come into play. On the dragstrip, there isn't that much slip. On an autox or road course, this may come into play, but these units have been put on some race Miatas and Hondas that did road racing, and after a full season, they never reported any issues with the unit not working.
6. after 10 back to back runs down the 1/4 mile if the
unit is too hot to will it still work properly?
See above. You would have to run down a half wet, half dry track with the tires spinning the whole way and the clutches sliping the whole time to even generate enough heat to cause any noticable effects. I haven't made any passes with this unit yet, but one of the guys that builds these has a high hp SHO, and he's never had an issue at the track.
I am thinking of getting one me a LSD, but next time I drop my tranny I am upgrading my clutch flywheel and this right here.
Shadow quick questions big guy?
1. what is the power handling capicity of this LSD?,
Well, on the other LSD's, we've run them on 600 hp 300ZX's, a 400 hp Civic, and lots of other turbo'd or nitroused cars.
2. do you think its really good for high horse power/power?
I think it's good for high hp cars because like I said before, we've tested these units on some high hp cars.
3. how long will the clutch's last?
The clutches have gone over 100K on our test cars and we haven't had to replace a clutch yet, so I don't know how long they last exactly, but it's a long time.
4. is there any type of warranty.
There is a lifetime warranty on these units.
5. once the unit heats up will the plates stop working and loose
the LSD function?
We've never had a unit stop functioning due to heat. On the dragstrip, the units don't heat up that much. Due to the desgin, the units are on full lock until slip is detected, and then the clutches come into play. On the dragstrip, there isn't that much slip. On an autox or road course, this may come into play, but these units have been put on some race Miatas and Hondas that did road racing, and after a full season, they never reported any issues with the unit not working.
6. after 10 back to back runs down the 1/4 mile if the
unit is too hot to will it still work properly?
See above. You would have to run down a half wet, half dry track with the tires spinning the whole way and the clutches sliping the whole time to even generate enough heat to cause any noticable effects. I haven't made any passes with this unit yet, but one of the guys that builds these has a high hp SHO, and he's never had an issue at the track.
I am thinking of getting one me a LSD, but next time I drop my tranny I am upgrading my clutch flywheel and this right here
.
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