from Sprints to H&R's , not impressed
04-23-2003, 10:28 AM
#42
Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 219
Originally posted by Dave B
I don't have AGXs on the front, but I do have Koni's and they're pretty firm. My setup is this:
Koni's in the front @ 60% firmness
AGX's in the rear @ 50% firmness (4)
H&R springs
Motivational rear strut mounts
Warpspeed SFC Stage 1
FSTB
17" ASA LS5s with 235/45s
I took a local Maxima owner for a ride in my Maxima because he doesn't have any suspension work other than 17" rims. He was blown away by the ride of my car because it rode nearly like his bonestock suspension. He couldn't believe my car was soaking up potholes, manholes, and ruts as good as it did. The road we were driving on was far from smooth either seeing that we were in the ghetto of KC. I then flung the car onto a side street and he was amazed (and possibly scared) by how easily the car took a BUMPY 90-degree turn.
I've noticed that if the struts are dialed too soft, the ride is bouncy and more harsh. If the struts are too firm, the ride gets harsher. There definately is a fine line to the tuning of this suspension. In colder weather (sub 50s), I can dial back my struts because they become naturally stiffer.
Tokicos and GR2s WILL NOT work well with any of the aftermarket springs simply because the springs are higher rate and will easily over power the struts. You need something that can be adjusted. Stiff struts don't necessarily mean a stiff ride. BMW uses VERY stiff struts and you rarely hear people complaining about a stiff ride.
Dave
I don't have AGXs on the front, but I do have Koni's and they're pretty firm. My setup is this:
Koni's in the front @ 60% firmness
AGX's in the rear @ 50% firmness (4)
H&R springs
Motivational rear strut mounts
Warpspeed SFC Stage 1
FSTB
17" ASA LS5s with 235/45s
I took a local Maxima owner for a ride in my Maxima because he doesn't have any suspension work other than 17" rims. He was blown away by the ride of my car because it rode nearly like his bonestock suspension. He couldn't believe my car was soaking up potholes, manholes, and ruts as good as it did. The road we were driving on was far from smooth either seeing that we were in the ghetto of KC. I then flung the car onto a side street and he was amazed (and possibly scared) by how easily the car took a BUMPY 90-degree turn.
I've noticed that if the struts are dialed too soft, the ride is bouncy and more harsh. If the struts are too firm, the ride gets harsher. There definately is a fine line to the tuning of this suspension. In colder weather (sub 50s), I can dial back my struts because they become naturally stiffer.
Tokicos and GR2s WILL NOT work well with any of the aftermarket springs simply because the springs are higher rate and will easily over power the struts. You need something that can be adjusted. Stiff struts don't necessarily mean a stiff ride. BMW uses VERY stiff struts and you rarely hear people complaining about a stiff ride.
Dave
Ok Dave I was really impressed with the ride and how your car handled the curves but I wasn't scared
or anything, I honestly feel that the AGX/H&R is the best intermediate setup available and I plan on getting my springs and struts installed this weekend if my strut boots and seals come in from the dealer in time.
04-23-2003, 03:44 PM
#44
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,362
Originally posted by 2KxSEx
In the front the GR2s are about 75% stiffer than the stock struts. In the back I would say they're about 10% stiffer than the stock struts. This test was done by pressing on the fender in the front and in the middle of the trunk on a max w/ GR2s and stock springs w/about 8k miles on them and a stock max w/about 60k miles on it. The front GR2s are too stiff for the light 5spd max I think. Maybe an auto max would like the GR2s more. My steering wheel is never still since the day I put the GR2s in. Nick, your shocks might be blown because of the sprints. Yes even the AGXs go bad..as sprints are a huge drop for any shock/strut. When gas struts go bad, the ride become 3 times worse unlike the stock struts where they become very soft. That's something you should look into.
Peace.
In the front the GR2s are about 75% stiffer than the stock struts. In the back I would say they're about 10% stiffer than the stock struts. This test was done by pressing on the fender in the front and in the middle of the trunk on a max w/ GR2s and stock springs w/about 8k miles on them and a stock max w/about 60k miles on it. The front GR2s are too stiff for the light 5spd max I think. Maybe an auto max would like the GR2s more. My steering wheel is never still since the day I put the GR2s in. Nick, your shocks might be blown because of the sprints. Yes even the AGXs go bad..as sprints are a huge drop for any shock/strut. When gas struts go bad, the ride become 3 times worse unlike the stock struts where they become very soft. That's something you should look into.
Peace.
. I can push the rear end down by pressing on the rear bumper but the front end hardly moves when I put my weight on the bumper, does that seem right?I have already tried different settings but maybe I will try some higher settings tomorrow and see if I can get any improvement.
04-23-2003, 06:29 PM
#45
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,957
H&R +KYB AGX = nowhere near stock !!!!
whoever said that H&R's and KYB AGX are closest to stock ride is fooling himself and by spreading false information is causing harm to the rest of the members on the org.
I had Sprints with KYB AGX for 5 months and initially the car handled
incredible - i knew what i was getting in the first place - springs with most drop and smallest amount of wheel travel - good roads were pleasure to drive on , rough roads - that's another story.
Simply our "made in America" spring started to loose its capabilities and ride become very uncontrolable and harsh.
Switching to H&R helped to smooth things out a bit but ride is still stiff and rough - when AGX's are dialed to soft - ride is bouncy and the car is very uncontrolable, when struts are dialed to stiff - not even try pushing the front bumper/quater panel down - it wont move !!! and finding that fine tuning line also depends on the temperature when its cold things are stiff as hell inside them struts.
My best friend bought Mercedes Benz CL230 and complained on the stiff ride , so i took it for a test drive and i fell in love how the car handled bumps and bad roads. I pushed his front quater panel and it moved up and down nice and firm
did the same thing to my max and i wanted to cry
Nick
I had Sprints with KYB AGX for 5 months and initially the car handled
incredible - i knew what i was getting in the first place - springs with most drop and smallest amount of wheel travel - good roads were pleasure to drive on , rough roads - that's another story.
Simply our "made in America" spring started to loose its capabilities and ride become very uncontrolable and harsh.
Switching to H&R helped to smooth things out a bit but ride is still stiff and rough - when AGX's are dialed to soft - ride is bouncy and the car is very uncontrolable, when struts are dialed to stiff - not even try pushing the front bumper/quater panel down - it wont move !!! and finding that fine tuning line also depends on the temperature when its cold things are stiff as hell inside them struts.
My best friend bought Mercedes Benz CL230 and complained on the stiff ride , so i took it for a test drive and i fell in love how the car handled bumps and bad roads. I pushed his front quater panel and it moved up and down nice and firm
did the same thing to my max and i wanted to cry
Nick
04-23-2003, 07:48 PM
#47
04-23-2003, 07:55 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,391
Originally posted by DR0832
so... what does everyone suggest if one wanted to lower there car at least 1.5 inches but at least maintain a somewhat sooth ride like stock?
so... what does everyone suggest if one wanted to lower there car at least 1.5 inches but at least maintain a somewhat sooth ride like stock?
I still don't understand how many people can't tolerate H&Rs, as long as you have your shocks set up correctly, it shouldn't be that bad. Or possibly Konis absorb initial impact better than AGX struts do, because I'm sitting on Eibachs/Koni, 18s and sway bars, and the ride is no problem for me. Yes, it's stiff, but for a lowered car, it's to be expected. My gf never complains, and neither do my parents.
If anyone is looking to reduce harshness, I have my final writeup about every aspect of what makes cars ride harsh:
http://drewm.dyndns.org/~drew/maxfaq...nsionHarshness
I can name off lots of stock cars that are as rough as H&Rs... M3s, M5s, Audi TTs, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, most other exotics
05-16-2003, 10:39 AM
#50
Originally posted by domainaic
hey so i agx and stock springs a smooth ride????
hey so i agx and stock springs a smooth ride????
Many don't like stock springs cause they retain the 5+ finger gap.
05-16-2003, 12:49 PM
#53
About the KYB Limited Lifetime Warranty
KYB Corporation of America warrants the listed quality-built products for the listed time period and/or mileage to the original retail purchaser against defect and wear-out when used on private passenger cars and light trucks under normal operating conditions. The warranty does not apply to units which have been modified, improperly applied or installed, or installed on vehicles used for commercial purposes. KYB's obligation under this warranty is limited to replacement of the defective unit in accordance with this warranty. Cost of removal and installation, and/or shipping costs, are not included.
The quality-built products, time periods and /or mileage covered under this warranty are as follows:
For as long as the original retail purchaser owns the vehicle on which the units were orginally installed:
A. ALL KYB Shock Absorbers (Gas-a-Just, Monomax) - Lifetime
B. ALL KYB GR2 gas struts, gas cartridges, and gas shocks - Lifetime
C. AGX Adjustable Products - One Year / Unlimited mileage.
About our Limited Commercial Warranty
KYB Corporation of America warrants the listed quality-built products for the listed time period and/or mileage to the original retail purchaser against defect and wear-out when used on private passenger cars and light trucks under normal operating condistions. The warranty does not apply to units which have been modified, improperly applied or installed, or installed on vehicles used for commercial purposes. KYB's obligation under this warranty is limited to replacement of the defective unit in accordance with this warranty. Cost of removal and installation, and/or shipping costs, are not included, as well as any commercial loss or other consequential damage, are not included.
The quality-built products, time periods and /or mileage covered under this warranty are as follows:
1. For a period of one ( 1 ) year from the date of purchase or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first:
A: ALL KYB Gas-a-Just shock aborbers.
About the KYB Claim Procedure
1. When a Consumer has a KYB unit requiring adjustment, it must be checked to see if the unit qualifies for replacement. Units that DO NOT qualify include:
A. Units which are worn out. An example is where only one unit is worn out or defective and the Consumer requests a pair be replaced. As KYB's warranties only covers only the worn-out or defective unit, the claim for the good unit will not be honored.
B. Units which DO NOT qualify due to mileage and / or time duration as specified above.
C. Units which are improperly installed, modified or abused.
D. Units which are installed on vehicles for commercial purposes and the product warranty for that unit specifically excludes that use.
2. If the unit qualifies for replacement it must be replaced with a new unit of the same or supersceded Part Number.
3. To make a claim under the KYB warranty, return the worn-out / defective unit with a copy of the dated Proof of Purchase (reciept) for the unit to any KYB dealer for verification and exchange under this warranty.
4. Give the entire unit (with mountings still intact so KYB can test it) to your KYB supplier. It can be replaced with a new unit of the same Part Number (when available.)
KYB America LLC
140 North Mitchell Court
Addison, Il, 60101
KYB Corporation of America warrants the listed quality-built products for the listed time period and/or mileage to the original retail purchaser against defect and wear-out when used on private passenger cars and light trucks under normal operating conditions. The warranty does not apply to units which have been modified, improperly applied or installed, or installed on vehicles used for commercial purposes. KYB's obligation under this warranty is limited to replacement of the defective unit in accordance with this warranty. Cost of removal and installation, and/or shipping costs, are not included.
The quality-built products, time periods and /or mileage covered under this warranty are as follows:
For as long as the original retail purchaser owns the vehicle on which the units were orginally installed:
A. ALL KYB Shock Absorbers (Gas-a-Just, Monomax) - Lifetime
B. ALL KYB GR2 gas struts, gas cartridges, and gas shocks - Lifetime
C. AGX Adjustable Products - One Year / Unlimited mileage.
About our Limited Commercial Warranty
KYB Corporation of America warrants the listed quality-built products for the listed time period and/or mileage to the original retail purchaser against defect and wear-out when used on private passenger cars and light trucks under normal operating condistions. The warranty does not apply to units which have been modified, improperly applied or installed, or installed on vehicles used for commercial purposes. KYB's obligation under this warranty is limited to replacement of the defective unit in accordance with this warranty. Cost of removal and installation, and/or shipping costs, are not included, as well as any commercial loss or other consequential damage, are not included.
The quality-built products, time periods and /or mileage covered under this warranty are as follows:
1. For a period of one ( 1 ) year from the date of purchase or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first:
A: ALL KYB Gas-a-Just shock aborbers.
About the KYB Claim Procedure
1. When a Consumer has a KYB unit requiring adjustment, it must be checked to see if the unit qualifies for replacement. Units that DO NOT qualify include:
A. Units which are worn out. An example is where only one unit is worn out or defective and the Consumer requests a pair be replaced. As KYB's warranties only covers only the worn-out or defective unit, the claim for the good unit will not be honored.
B. Units which DO NOT qualify due to mileage and / or time duration as specified above.
C. Units which are improperly installed, modified or abused.
D. Units which are installed on vehicles for commercial purposes and the product warranty for that unit specifically excludes that use.
2. If the unit qualifies for replacement it must be replaced with a new unit of the same or supersceded Part Number.
3. To make a claim under the KYB warranty, return the worn-out / defective unit with a copy of the dated Proof of Purchase (reciept) for the unit to any KYB dealer for verification and exchange under this warranty.
4. Give the entire unit (with mountings still intact so KYB can test it) to your KYB supplier. It can be replaced with a new unit of the same Part Number (when available.)
KYB America LLC
140 North Mitchell Court
Addison, Il, 60101
05-16-2003, 06:55 PM
#54
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 31
How does the car feel with a full load of passengers in any one of the configurations listed above? I'm generally chosen to drive because of the Maxima. I'd like to keep the ride as smooth as I can while taking some good corners. It seems like stock is the way to go but I'd like to hear from you guys. Thanks.
05-17-2003, 07:34 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 408
What is being adjusted with the dials is REBOUND (extension). The ***** don't do much for COMPRESSION.
The front KYB's seem to be quite a bit stiffer in compression than the stockers. This isn't going to change much, regardless of how the shock is 'dialed'.
As the **** is adjusted to make the shocks stiffer, what is really being adjusted is the rebound, or how hard the shock extends, or seperates. THIS is what helps control the more aggressive springs. Without this extra rebound dampning, the springs spring back too quickly, and give the car a 'bouncy' feel.
If the car is feeling bouncy, turn the shocks up to a stiffer setting, and see how they feel.
I've got an AGX shock right in front of me, and just got finished working the piston up and down on various settings.
There is no significant difference is compression as the adjustment **** is turned, but the extension varies quite a bit.
No B.S., just a direct observation. If anyone else has some they've purchased sitting around, try em' out. From the above data, the dampening rate should more than double. This does not happen. I tested both front and rear shocks, and when putting all my weight on each one, it takes the same amount of time to fully compress each one on both the softest and stiffest settings. However, extension is a totally different story!
Most shocks that are 'single adjustable' are like this.
When the weight comes off, and the gas pressure works to extend the shock, it takes FOREVER to spring back all the way on the stiffest setting. As a matter of fact, I would turn the adjuster **** to the softest setting as it was coming up and watch the extension speed pick up big time.
The settings adjust rebound only. Turning them to stiff still reduces body roll... since is keeps the inside wheel from extending as fast.
But, don't take my word for it, try it yourself.
The time required to extend under the gas pressure varied drastically when the adjustment **** was turned, while the time required to compress did not.
In a nutshell, the stiff compression is going to make the car feel stiff. The variable rebound allows the struts to be dialed in for various spring rates. Stiff springs require stiff settings for a controlled ride. Without stiff rebound (extension) settings, stiff springs overpower the strut and 'bounce'.
Good Luck!
The front KYB's seem to be quite a bit stiffer in compression than the stockers. This isn't going to change much, regardless of how the shock is 'dialed'.
As the **** is adjusted to make the shocks stiffer, what is really being adjusted is the rebound, or how hard the shock extends, or seperates. THIS is what helps control the more aggressive springs. Without this extra rebound dampning, the springs spring back too quickly, and give the car a 'bouncy' feel.
If the car is feeling bouncy, turn the shocks up to a stiffer setting, and see how they feel.
I've got an AGX shock right in front of me, and just got finished working the piston up and down on various settings.
There is no significant difference is compression as the adjustment **** is turned, but the extension varies quite a bit.
No B.S., just a direct observation. If anyone else has some they've purchased sitting around, try em' out. From the above data, the dampening rate should more than double. This does not happen. I tested both front and rear shocks, and when putting all my weight on each one, it takes the same amount of time to fully compress each one on both the softest and stiffest settings. However, extension is a totally different story!
Most shocks that are 'single adjustable' are like this.
When the weight comes off, and the gas pressure works to extend the shock, it takes FOREVER to spring back all the way on the stiffest setting. As a matter of fact, I would turn the adjuster **** to the softest setting as it was coming up and watch the extension speed pick up big time.
The settings adjust rebound only. Turning them to stiff still reduces body roll... since is keeps the inside wheel from extending as fast.
But, don't take my word for it, try it yourself.
The time required to extend under the gas pressure varied drastically when the adjustment **** was turned, while the time required to compress did not.
In a nutshell, the stiff compression is going to make the car feel stiff. The variable rebound allows the struts to be dialed in for various spring rates. Stiff springs require stiff settings for a controlled ride. Without stiff rebound (extension) settings, stiff springs overpower the strut and 'bounce'.
Good Luck!
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