Blown Engine/Engine Replacement
05-31-2003, 07:05 PM
#1
Blown Engine/Engine Replacement
In case you missed, I've blown my engine.
I could just replace the right side head (I think), but they seem to go for $150-$250. For <$500 I can get an entire engine. Mine has fairly high mileage (85k), and has never had wonderful compression (170's).
So, I'm going to replace the motor. Any advice? I will be doing this myself, with the help of at least 1 other person. I've never done anything quite like this before, but how hard can it be.
When I get the new motor what do you guys think would be good preventive maintenance procedures to perform while its out of the car? I was thinking of replacing maybe the water pump and knock sensor, just because they're such a PITA when the engine is in the car.
I could just replace the right side head (I think), but they seem to go for $150-$250. For <$500 I can get an entire engine. Mine has fairly high mileage (85k), and has never had wonderful compression (170's).
So, I'm going to replace the motor. Any advice? I will be doing this myself, with the help of at least 1 other person. I've never done anything quite like this before, but how hard can it be.
When I get the new motor what do you guys think would be good preventive maintenance procedures to perform while its out of the car? I was thinking of replacing maybe the water pump and knock sensor, just because they're such a PITA when the engine is in the car.
05-31-2003, 11:00 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 590
Re: Blown Engine/Engine Replacement
Originally posted by ejj
In case you missed, I've blown my engine.
When I get the new motor what do you guys think would be good preventive maintenance procedures to perform while its out of the car? I was thinking of replacing maybe the water pump and knock sensor, just because they're such a PITA when the engine is in the car.
In case you missed, I've blown my engine.
When I get the new motor what do you guys think would be good preventive maintenance procedures to perform while its out of the car? I was thinking of replacing maybe the water pump and knock sensor, just because they're such a PITA when the engine is in the car.
All new sparks, hoses, filters, pcv valve, etc...
I dropped two small steel machine screws down the carb of a full-throttle running 1978 Dodge slant-six motor once. I was 16 with less than $300 to my name.... What a sickening/bad feeling.... Found them all in the muffer, some smashed. No harm done.... 'Course it caught fire and burned to the ground a couple years later...
-RMB
06-01-2003, 08:16 AM
#3
Re: Re: Blown Engine/Engine Replacement
Originally posted by rmb
Clutch bits... disc... pressure plate.... t-bearing, slave cyl... etc....
Clutch bits... disc... pressure plate.... t-bearing, slave cyl... etc....
All new sparks, hoses, filters, pcv valve, etc...
Thanks.
06-01-2003, 08:28 AM
#4
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Why don't you just pull the heads off and see if there is any scoring on the cylinder walls from the screws? If all looks good, just have the heads redone. The bottom end should last a long time and you never know what condition another used motor will be like or what the maintenance has been like on that engine. A new top end is almost like starting with a new motor. You can increase the valve spring tension by shimming it slightly and take advantage of higher RPM's too.
(I read the shimming idea in another post)
Drop the oil pan and see what the bottom end looks like. Pull a bearing to check for ware. Clean it all up, put new heads on it and you should be set to go again.
Don't be so quick to swap the whole engine if the only damage done by the screws was limited to your valves. At least inspect it first before you make that decision.
(I read the shimming idea in another post)
Drop the oil pan and see what the bottom end looks like. Pull a bearing to check for ware. Clean it all up, put new heads on it and you should be set to go again.
Don't be so quick to swap the whole engine if the only damage done by the screws was limited to your valves. At least inspect it first before you make that decision.
06-01-2003, 08:36 AM
#5
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
Why don't you just pull the heads off and see if there is any scoring on the cylinder walls from the screws? If all looks good, just have the heads redone. The bottom end should last a long time and you never know what condition another used motor will be like or what the maintenance has been like on that engine. A new top end is almost like starting with a new motor. You can increase the valve spring tension by shimming it slightly and take advantage of higher RPM's too.
(I read the shimming idea in another post)
Drop the oil pan and see what the bottom end looks like. Pull a bearing to check for ware. Clean it all up, put new heads on it and you should be set to go again.
Don't be so quick to swap the whole engine if the only damage done by the screws was limited to your valves. At least inspect it first before you make that decision.
Why don't you just pull the heads off and see if there is any scoring on the cylinder walls from the screws? If all looks good, just have the heads redone. The bottom end should last a long time and you never know what condition another used motor will be like or what the maintenance has been like on that engine. A new top end is almost like starting with a new motor. You can increase the valve spring tension by shimming it slightly and take advantage of higher RPM's too.
(I read the shimming idea in another post)
Drop the oil pan and see what the bottom end looks like. Pull a bearing to check for ware. Clean it all up, put new heads on it and you should be set to go again.
Don't be so quick to swap the whole engine if the only damage done by the screws was limited to your valves. At least inspect it first before you make that decision.
Also, being the first time I've done this, swapping an entire working engine sounds simpler than pulling the head. I don't have to worry about the timing, etc with this. Unless I'm way off base...
06-01-2003, 09:10 AM
#6
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Posts: 16,033
Cost effective? 
Thats a tough call. Either way your into it for a few bucks. The extra parts and block might be fun to play with and you could some day actually need them.
As far as setting up the timing chain, it's really pretty easy. There's dots on the chain sprokets that need to be lined up. It's really easy to set the engine timing. Ignition timing is all controlled by both crank sensors. As long as your crank is in time with your cam, your engine runs!
I think at this point either route you take is going to take about the same time and money in the long run. I'd be more likely to keep my block knowing what it's history is.
Thats a tough call. Either way your into it for a few bucks. The extra parts and block might be fun to play with and you could some day actually need them.As far as setting up the timing chain, it's really pretty easy. There's dots on the chain sprokets that need to be lined up. It's really easy to set the engine timing. Ignition timing is all controlled by both crank sensors. As long as your crank is in time with your cam, your engine runs!
I think at this point either route you take is going to take about the same time and money in the long run. I'd be more likely to keep my block knowing what it's history is.
06-01-2003, 09:14 AM
#7
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
I think at this point either route you take is going to take about the same time and money in the long run. I'd be more likely to keep my block knowing what it's history is.
I think at this point either route you take is going to take about the same time and money in the long run. I'd be more likely to keep my block knowing what it's history is.
However, I really only know 30k out of its 85k history...
06-01-2003, 10:20 AM
#10
To end this debate....
#1) I need to change the clutch anyways. Meaning that the transmission and axles are coming out. From what I gather that's a large part of the work involved in swapping engines.
#2) The sound that my engine was making has gone away. This leads me to believe that there was at least 1 screw still in the combustion chamber, and it finially found its way out. Meaning that it wasn't the valve making noise (although it is bad), but the screw. This also means that its been beating on the piston and cylinder wall. Block is most likely damaged.
New engine it is.
The car runs just fine now though. A little hesitant when getting on it (which I only tried once), but idles and runs without problems.
#1) I need to change the clutch anyways. Meaning that the transmission and axles are coming out. From what I gather that's a large part of the work involved in swapping engines.
#2) The sound that my engine was making has gone away. This leads me to believe that there was at least 1 screw still in the combustion chamber, and it finially found its way out. Meaning that it wasn't the valve making noise (although it is bad), but the screw. This also means that its been beating on the piston and cylinder wall. Block is most likely damaged.
New engine it is.
The car runs just fine now though. A little hesitant when getting on it (which I only tried once), but idles and runs without problems.
06-01-2003, 11:57 AM
#11
Disco Biscuit
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,791
I got engine with 41k for $250 and it's running great. Plus it's given me quite a few extra parts to play with. There's one with 41k right now on www.Car-part.com for $245.
06-02-2003, 10:27 AM
#12
Just ordered a new engine from Saw Mills Salvage.
42k miles, $500 shipped. Not bad.
I specifically wanted a 1999 to ensure that the SC will properly bolt on, and to avoid any potential wiring headaches.
There were a few other places that has 99 engines for less, but they sounded a bid shady and weren't quite sure of the engine's condition, etc.
Saw Mills included a 6mo warrenty, which is nice.
The motor was from a car with an Auto tranny as well, which I like. Means that it was less likely to be beat on, and the driver could not over-rev the engine buy screwing up a down shift.
Ships today or tomorrow. :tup:
42k miles, $500 shipped. Not bad.
I specifically wanted a 1999 to ensure that the SC will properly bolt on, and to avoid any potential wiring headaches.
There were a few other places that has 99 engines for less, but they sounded a bid shady and weren't quite sure of the engine's condition, etc.
Saw Mills included a 6mo warrenty, which is nice.
The motor was from a car with an Auto tranny as well, which I like. Means that it was less likely to be beat on, and the driver could not over-rev the engine buy screwing up a down shift.
Ships today or tomorrow. :tup:
06-02-2003, 10:55 AM
#14
Originally posted by Dave B
How much is shipping on a motor?
Dave
How much is shipping on a motor?
Dave
However, that's only from down state NY to upstate NY.
06-02-2003, 10:56 AM
#15
Originally posted by Dave B
Don't you have to go to the DMV to get your title to read motor/vehicle discrepancy to make it legal for resale?
Don't you have to go to the DMV to get your title to read motor/vehicle discrepancy to make it legal for resale?
06-02-2003, 11:07 AM
#16
I think a newer motor would be the way to go. There's alot things you can do wrong when breaking down the engine and PUTTING it back together. There's nothing more frustrating than working on an engine, only to find out you missed something or the engine leaks because you didn't install the head gasket correctly etc... The work is "maybe" a toss up, but it's alot safer to do an complete engine swap(if you are not too familar w/ engines) I've done both(worked on heads/replaced engines). Plus doing that kind of work w/ the engine still in the car is a big pain
06-02-2003, 11:16 AM
#17
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Plus doing that kind of work w/ the engine still in the car is a big pain
Plus doing that kind of work w/ the engine still in the car is a big pain
06-02-2003, 12:57 PM
#18
Originally posted by slammed95
I disagree. To remove the heads you need to remove the cam sprockets, which requires removal of the rear timing chain cover, taking off the large cam sprocket, taking off the small timing chains, taking off the large chain, the white slider, and the tensioner, requiring removal of the front timing chain cover, requiring removal of the engine mount and crank pulley.
Then you still have to remove the intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, etc.
Major hassle.
I disagree. To remove the heads you need to remove the cam sprockets, which requires removal of the rear timing chain cover, taking off the large cam sprocket, taking off the small timing chains, taking off the large chain, the white slider, and the tensioner, requiring removal of the front timing chain cover, requiring removal of the engine mount and crank pulley.
Then you still have to remove the intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, etc.
Major hassle.
Ejj: Good luck with it and I'm going to make sure I locktite my screws before I end up with the same problems.
06-02-2003, 01:17 PM
#19
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,033
Originally posted by ejj
To end this debate....
The sound that my engine was making has gone away. This leads me to believe that there was at least 1 screw still in the combustion chamber, and it finially found its way out. Meaning that it wasn't the valve making noise (although it is bad), but the screw. This also means that its been beating on the piston and cylinder wall. Block is most likely damaged.
New engine it is.
To end this debate....
The sound that my engine was making has gone away. This leads me to believe that there was at least 1 screw still in the combustion chamber, and it finially found its way out. Meaning that it wasn't the valve making noise (although it is bad), but the screw. This also means that its been beating on the piston and cylinder wall. Block is most likely damaged.
New engine it is.
After reading that, you made the right choice!
Good luck with the swap.
06-03-2003, 10:06 AM
#20
Almost 24 hours to the minute after placing the order for the engine, I got a call from the freight company asking if I could be home in 15 minutes. I am truly impressed. I didn't request any type of rush. Sure, it was only going across the state, but I didn't expect to see the engine until Thursday or Friday.
Its kinda dirty, but that's to be expected. Comes with a lot of 'extras' that I didn't think it had to. Coil packs, sensors, etc. I'll have a ton of extra parts when I'm done.
Question...I haven't done a clutch job on these cars yet, so I wouldn't know. In the following picture:
Are those 2 timing rings, or is the bigger (outer) one just the teeth for the starter.
Other pictures:
Its got an OEM oil filter on it...good sign!
06-03-2003, 10:18 AM
#21
Looks good man! Flywheel. That's obviously the auto unit. One ring gear is for the starter and one is for the crank angle sensor I believe. Remember if you are going to put on the 5-sp flywheel, you have to install the 5-sp pilot shaft bushing inside the crank bore. If you have a 5-sp stock oem flywheel and you want to go Fidanza, you have to remove the oem timing ring gear and put that on the Fidanza. You should also:
1) Replace the rear and front main seals. MUCH easier to do now vs later.
2) Consider replacing the knock sensor also.
3) Water pump??
4) All accessory belts.
5) Coolant hoses. Might was well.
6) Inspect all vaccum hoses for cracks etc.. and replace as necessary.
7) Don't know if it's a good time to take off the timing covers to inspect the chain tensioners but not a bad idea.(buy new gaskets if necessary(ie.. if the covers use gaskets or maybe Nissan RTV) )
1) Replace the rear and front main seals. MUCH easier to do now vs later.
2) Consider replacing the knock sensor also.
3) Water pump??
4) All accessory belts.
5) Coolant hoses. Might was well.
6) Inspect all vaccum hoses for cracks etc.. and replace as necessary.
7) Don't know if it's a good time to take off the timing covers to inspect the chain tensioners but not a bad idea.(buy new gaskets if necessary(ie.. if the covers use gaskets or maybe Nissan RTV) )
06-03-2003, 10:25 AM
#22
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Looks good man! Flywheel. That's obviously the auto unit
Looks good man! Flywheel. That's obviously the auto unit
You should also:
1) Replace the rear and front main seals. MUCH easier to do now vs later.
2) Consider replacing the knock sensor also.
3) Water pump??
4) All accessory belts.
5) Coolant hoses. Might was well.
6) Inspect all vaccum hoses for cracks etc.. and replace as necessary.
7) Don't know if it's a good time to take off the timing covers to inspect the chain tensioners but not a bad idea.(buy new gaskets if necessary(ie.. if the covers use gaskets or maybe Nissan RTV) )
2) Think I'm going to hold off on this. I've taken the intake mainfold off enough times now, that its only a 2 hour job. The one on my current engine is fine, so I know I've got a working backup.
3) Considering this as well. Dunno what it costs/work involved. Gotta read up tonight.
4) Already planned.
5) Already planned.
6) Already planned, although I've almost re-done the majority vacuum and fuel systems on my engine when I installed the SC (new/re-routed hose).
7) Not a bad idea. The (engine's) left hand side cover has to come off anyways for the SC install. I couldn't see in there of course when the engine was in the car, but now that its out, I might as well. FYI - They're sealed with RTV.
Jeff, seeing as you've done engine work before, can you answer this question. Kevin wasn't too helpful.
06-03-2003, 03:19 PM
#23
You may be able to reach the knock sensor pretty easy with the motor out...
Just my $0.0225563
Did you get your motor stand question answered? I went to ACE and got some bolts long enough to go through the stand and into the tranny bolt holes. There may be some pics on my homepage, I'd have to look.
Other than the bolts and some washers I didn't need anything special to mount the engine except a crane to lift it onto the stand.
Hope this helps...
Just my $0.0225563
Did you get your motor stand question answered? I went to ACE and got some bolts long enough to go through the stand and into the tranny bolt holes. There may be some pics on my homepage, I'd have to look.
Other than the bolts and some washers I didn't need anything special to mount the engine except a crane to lift it onto the stand.
Hope this helps...
06-03-2003, 03:54 PM
#24
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Location: New Windsor, NY
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Eric,
Saw Mill... top notch place, I grew up close to there, and know several people that have bought motors there, nothing but positives.
Also...look into the 3.5l oil pump. I think it's relatively cheap, and now may be the time to do it. Alot more flow...yummy.
Saw Mill... top notch place, I grew up close to there, and know several people that have bought motors there, nothing but positives.
Also...look into the 3.5l oil pump. I think it's relatively cheap, and now may be the time to do it. Alot more flow...yummy.
06-03-2003, 05:24 PM
#25
Originally posted by ejj
[img]
Its got an OEM oil filter on it...good sign!
[img]
Its got an OEM oil filter on it...good sign!
did they give you compression specs and all that good stuff??
looks good!
06-03-2003, 07:13 PM
#27
Originally posted by MadMax95
You may be able to reach the knock sensor pretty easy with the motor out...
Just my $0.0225563
Did you get your motor stand question answered? I went to ACE and got some bolts long enough to go through the stand and into the tranny bolt holes. There may be some pics on my homepage, I'd have to look.
Other than the bolts and some washers I didn't need anything special to mount the engine except a crane to lift it onto the stand.
Hope this helps...
You may be able to reach the knock sensor pretty easy with the motor out...
Just my $0.0225563
Did you get your motor stand question answered? I went to ACE and got some bolts long enough to go through the stand and into the tranny bolt holes. There may be some pics on my homepage, I'd have to look.
Other than the bolts and some washers I didn't need anything special to mount the engine except a crane to lift it onto the stand.
Hope this helps...
I got the "theory" of my stand question answered, but its good to know more precise information. Thanks.
Originally posted by delio
Eric,
Saw Mill... top notch place, I grew up close to there, and know several people that have bought motors there, nothing but positives.
Also...look into the 3.5l oil pump. I think it's relatively cheap, and now may be the time to do it. Alot more flow...yummy.
Eric,
Saw Mill... top notch place, I grew up close to there, and know several people that have bought motors there, nothing but positives.
Also...look into the 3.5l oil pump. I think it's relatively cheap, and now may be the time to do it. Alot more flow...yummy.
Why do I need more flow? (Honestly)
Originally posted by carnal_c30
ehehe hopefully its not the original oil filter
did they give you compression specs and all that good stuff??
looks good!
ehehe hopefully its not the original oil filter
did they give you compression specs and all that good stuff??
looks good!
LOL, I would like the think the oil has been changed once or twice.
No compression specs. It's guarenteed to run and have "factory spec" compression. If it doesn't, I get another one. That would be a PITA, but I won't get screwed.Took the intake manifold off. Man, is that easier with the engine out of the car! Also pulled the coils and plugs. Factory plats, all in tip top shape.
06-03-2003, 07:46 PM
#28
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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Eric,
More oil pressure will probably keep it a little cooler, and IMHO be better for the motor long term. Just my opinion.
A friend of mine got a motor from Saw Mill for a car and the motor had 11k on it. He got a sweet deal on it, and it was at his house in 3 hours. My cousin runs a shop, and if it weren't for the family hookup, I would go to Saw Mill without a second glance.
More oil pressure will probably keep it a little cooler, and IMHO be better for the motor long term. Just my opinion.
A friend of mine got a motor from Saw Mill for a car and the motor had 11k on it. He got a sweet deal on it, and it was at his house in 3 hours. My cousin runs a shop, and if it weren't for the family hookup, I would go to Saw Mill without a second glance.
06-03-2003, 07:58 PM
#29
So I've kinda got a plan...
My dad is kind enough to let me use his garage to do this. His is a 2.5 car garage, and mine is a 1.5. It would be a little tight in mine.
I'm planning on spending a weekend taking the transmission and motor out of the car. Then through the course of the week that follows I'm going to move parts over (including the SC) and do other small projects (resurface flywheel, home-made poly engine mounts, etc).
Then the following weekend, I'm going to put it all back together.
Should be fun! I'll try to take lots of pics.
My dad is kind enough to let me use his garage to do this. His is a 2.5 car garage, and mine is a 1.5. It would be a little tight in mine.
I'm planning on spending a weekend taking the transmission and motor out of the car. Then through the course of the week that follows I'm going to move parts over (including the SC) and do other small projects (resurface flywheel, home-made poly engine mounts, etc).
Then the following weekend, I'm going to put it all back together.
Should be fun! I'll try to take lots of pics.
06-03-2003, 08:44 PM
#31
Originally posted by Ni_Nos_Maxima
How did the butterfly get loose in the first place, Maybe this is a problem to be adressed with all MEVI's, I wouldnt trust a Small Screw like that to do such a big job.
How did the butterfly get loose in the first place, Maybe this is a problem to be adressed with all MEVI's, I wouldnt trust a Small Screw like that to do such a big job.
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