Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

FINALLY got my new clutch installed yesterday. Just an OEM clutch since I heard WAY too many horror stories about aftermarket clutches (from ACT to Vitek) and wasn't willing to risk it. Sure I drive spiritedly but that doesn't mean I need an ACT. Also, I plan on selling the car within the next 1-2 years and I think the new owner will probably prefer an OEM clutch over an ACT.

Anyway, aside from my clutch pedal being totally soft (should stiffen up), the new clutch feel is amazing. I have 75000 miles on my car and I knew my clutch was stiff, catching high and slipping on hard shifts, but I had NO IDEA how badly I needed a new clutch. Basically if I drove the car like a married adult professional should, it wouldn't slip very often at all, but if I did a 5-3 gear change to pass someone I was lucky not to grind 3rd gear with such a narrow pedal range nevertheless to get a good shift that didn't slip. Haven't tried it with this one yet - waiting for the break in period to end - but this clutch certainly beats a 75,000 mile old clutch.

So, the short of the short is that $600 ($409 was labor) later, I think the OEM clutch is fantastic and totally worth it. I probably could have gotten a better deal on the clutch assembly, but that's okay - I'm very happy with the investment.

Lastly - About clutch break in, I've heard up to 5000 miles is proper break in. I think this might be a bit long and I guesstimated about 3000 miles (2 or so months) since I usually downshift as I break which should technically help with break in. I ask this because I've been dying to get my car to the track to see what I can run and I do NOT want to ruin this clutch by doing so too early. Anyone's opinions/questions welcome.

bhmax

So this is definitely a Nissan OEM and not a Nissan Key Value clutch? I've got a Key Value clutch that cost $170, and I have not been happy with it. I figured an OEM clutch would be a lot more than $191, although I haven't checked.

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

nice to hear it's pleasing to your feet. I'm interested on finding out if it's a key value myself. You might not know though.

Nismo98

iTrader: (7)

What bad have you hear about ACT, the reason why I am asking cuz I am having one put it in next couple of days. Took me a little over a year to f*ck up my second clutch which was put in at a dealer. I don't know what kind of clutch that mo fo instaled, but he charged me $ 500 and that was on a side. I don't know what went wrong, I didn't really kill the clutch, gave it about 1K to break it in, although I heard it's only 500-600 miles. Any suggestions on what I can do about the clutch which teh dealer put in, I heard the warranty on a cluch is only 12 monthes and that's when the car is bought brand new.

Andrei

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

As far as I know it's OEM. I never heard of "Key Value", but I specifically asked for an OEM clutch and had it installed by Courtesy Nissan in Tampa. They now assume warranty and b/c I got the part from them they won't fuss if I have a problem with it. I'll just say "it's YOUR part and YOU installed it, so fix it". I am 99% sure it's OEM and not this "key value" stuff.

Nismo98 - ACT clutches aren't notoriously bad or anything, it's just that if it goes bad, guess what? You pay installation TWICE. I know my Nissan dealer wasn't going to assume ANY responsibility for the ACT clutch but would assume all responsibility if I bought the clutch from them and had them install it. That's not to say any dealer will do the same, but I wouldl surely ask.

Besides, I read enough horror stories on here to deter me from getting one. If my car was a race car I would certainly get one, but it's not so I didn't.

bb0ys

IMHO $600 is a decent price to pay the dealer, no? I've got 96k miles on my car and the feeling of a new clutch (and perhaps a new or re-surfaced flywheel) would be awesome.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Key Value Kits. Although OFFERED by Nissan, they do NOT use Nissan oem parts. This the cheapie price. The kit is complete crap. I should now, I ran one a few years ago and took it out the next week and DEMANDED a refund. You should have researched these kits here first. I reported the crappy quality of the Key kits a long time ago. I feel for anyone that has one.

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

Resurfaced flywheel does wonders for low speed 1st gear (parking lot) drivability. No more slight bucking. I think this is almost as enjoyable as the new clutch itself.

As for the $600, you are right, it's not bad at all. I got quoted a higher price for the labor everywhere I went and believe me, I researched. Like I said, I could have paid less for the clutch if I really looked around, but it would have only saved me $25-$75 on a $600 job. To me, that's no big deal.

Jeff - called Nissan and they noted that this is a "Key Value" kit and that it is the ONLY kit they have listed. Manufacturer for the parts is listed as Nissan and all the individual parts he could sell me (throw out bearing, pressure plate, etc) are all parts from this kit. I guess I will keep my eye on it, but I'm not terribly worried since I got the kit from them and they did the install. Can you link me to your article about the kits so I can see what problem(s) you had?

Right now I have a very soft pedal (I think this is normal) but shifts are firm and not slipping. What should I be looking for?

Nismo98

iTrader: (7)

When I take the clutch out, I'll let you know what kind of clutch my dealer put in for me. Good thing this ACT clutch is being put in by my sisters boyfriend, so I am not getting hit with the damage on the second instal. Any things I should look out for, or tell him before instaling it. Also where is the best place to get my flywheel resurfaced, and I am not sure if the dealer did it in the first place.

Andrei

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Big_Ham. A few years ago, I had the chance to compare the Key kit w/ individual oem Nissan parts for the 3-gen VE. They were completely different parts. Put it this way, why would it be significantly cheaper to buy the key value kit vs the 4-5 individual parts from Nissan? Because they aren't the same parts. It might be diff for the 4-gen or Nissan might have wised up in the last few years. But judging by your "soft" pedal, I think you got the crap pressure plate. For normal driving it's totally fine. But my "kit" clutch slipped worse than my 120k mileage Nissan OEM parts clutch. The price for my kit was about $130. Buying individual parts would have cost over $200 easy. More like $250. There's no way these parts are the same.

Nissan is right though. It's the only "KIT" they have. But it ain't the only clutch parts available from them. Tell them to get a pressure plate from the kit and from their oem stock. Then compare. It won't be the same.

Dave B

The OEM clutch is heavy because the pressure plate is relatively strong therefore you get a stiffer pedal.

Quote:

Basically if I drove the car like a married adult professional should, it wouldn't slip very often at all, but if I did a 5-3 gear change to pass someone I was lucky not to grind 3rd nevertheless to get a good shift.

If you're grinding on the 5-3 shift, that's not a clutch problem, that's a syncro or driver problem.

Quote:

So, the short of the short is that $600 ($409 was labor) later, I think the OEM clutch is fantastic and totally worth it. I probably could have gotten a better deal on the clutch assembly, but that's okay - I'm very happy with the investment.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it sounds like you got the Key Value clutch. Expect it to slip on any sort of hard shifting. There is a guy here in KC that had the Key Value clutch and it slipped all the time on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts with only 10K miles. My stock clutch with 98K miles has never slipped once.

Quote:

Lastly - About clutch break in, I've heard up to 5000 miles is proper break in. I think this might be a bit long and I guesstimated about 3000 miles (2 or so months) since I usually downshift as I break which should technically help with break in. I ask this because I've been dying to get my car to the track to see what I can run and I do NOT want to ruin this clutch by doing so too early. Anyone's opinions/questions welcome.

Longer the break-in, the better. Most companies recommend 500 miles, but I'd go nice on it for 1000-1500 miles. You can still go WOT, you just can't slam the gears. Of course if this is the Key Value unit, it might slip even when going WOT.


Dave

Nismo98

iTrader: (7)

So what kind of clutch did I get from the dealer the first time when my OEM clutch with 45K miles went out. Also if my flywheel didn't get resurfaced the time my clutch got installed, could that have anything to do with my killing the second clutch?

Andrei

The_Bomb

Are the clutch parts that you but at www.courtesyparts.com the Nissan Key Value??? If so I am going to return the clutch and get something else. Thanks

Adam

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

yup if the flywheel wasn't resurfaced, it could have killed the clutch

bhmax

Also very curious about this...

Nismo98

iTrader: (7)

Really? How can I find out if the flywheel was resurfaced or not? The reason why I am asking is because it took about 3 hours to get the clutch installed and I had to pay the dealer cash. Should I go after the dealer, try to get some of my money back?

Andrei

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I'm now peeved. Went back to Nissan dealer and told them (the service manager) about the discrepancy and what I knew and how I knew it. He proceeded to tell me how he doesn't trust this forum, that there were, in fact, two different clutches and that he would have to ask his district guy (I guess that's who he's going to ask).

When he was talking bad about the .org, I just told him to stop right there because he doesn't know about the .org. Fact of the matter is that there are at least 10 people here who would talk circles around his tech's when it came to Maxima's and we all know this. I would venture to say that Jeff is one of them. I didn't tell him that part, but I hope he doesn't bring it up again. I've gotten 20x more valuable info from here than Nissan service guys.

So, he admitted to me that the Kit clutch is "thin" and how they also make brake pads that are a little "thin" for those who want them. Fact of the matter is that I wasn't given a choice in addition to the fact that I specifically asked for OEM. OEM = Original Equipment of the Manufacturer. The clutch they put in my car was not an identical replacement of the ORIGINAL Equipment that was in my car. By definition, this means I get the other clutch.

So he starts talking about costs and labor and all that stuff. If he wants to debate that, I'll be happy to debate it with him. Fact is, even tho he charges $75/hour for labor, he only pays his guys in the bay anywhere from $8/hr - $25+/hr (if you're a master tech or what-not) and the guy they had doing my clutch was most likely not a master tech. Putting in a clutch is not hard, just laborious. And anyway, the part probably cost him about $100. So we're taking about a maximum of $225. All this hassle just to save $225.

We'll see what comes of it. I guess the reason I'm so peeved is because his customer service skills are lacking. That "customer is always right" moniker went right out the window. Ironic since they have signs everywhere about how they want you to be SOOOO satisfied. He seemed 100% pessimistic about all this and if he doesn't give me what I am asking for, I will persist. I hope he knows that. *shrug* I don't want any of this, I just want an OEM clutch for cryin' out loud.

Max Noob

iTrader: (5)

keep going back to himm..and if he says some bs about my district manager said we cant replace it, ask for his district managers card, it'll scare him a little bit. but for sure if he is an A$$ again, go stright to the head of the department at the dealer.

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

That's part of the problem. He's the "service manager" while all the others are "assistant service managers". Not sure if this means there is someone on top of him locally at the dealership or not. Either way, he said he's going to call me today and I hope he has good news. I will post the outcome here. Someone (Jeff) needs to put a short version of this in the FAQ. I had no idea "Key Value" parts even existed.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

if u've put quite a few miles on it it would probably be nearly impossible to tell

Scruit

I just put a new clutch in when I rebuilt my tranny this month. I'll have to get the part numbers etc from the invoice but I know that I went to the dealer's parts desk and got the friction disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing and paid like $250 for the lot. These came as individual parts, not in a kit.

I heard the Key Value clutch described as a "Blue clutch" before. Mine came in blue shrink-wrap but the clutch itself is almost 100$ identical to the one I took out - the only differences were in the markings on the center of the friction disk.

I did have the flyqheel resurfaced at Napa - dropped it there at 9am, picked it up at noon, paid $30 and it looked like new when I got it back. The clutch in my car is 100% perfect at this point, I can do the clow speed maneuvers with ease - there is no slip/chatter or anything of that nature. I'm goign to take it easy on the break-in period (I'll do 1k miles), but I'm usually easy on clutches anyways (I always rev-match on downshifts if I am going to use the clutch, and don't usually use the clutch for 2-3-4-5 shifts if I'm driving normally)

The_Bomb

Well I answered my own question buy doing a little research. The parts that they sell at courtesy Nissan on their website are in fact Key Value parts. The Nissan OEM clutch is about $250 and you have to specifically ask for it or you'll get the POS Key Value.

Adam

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Big Ham, I know what you are going though. I went though the same shat too. I had to throw down the knowledge and educate those ignorate idiots. I mean seriously, they get all defensive but in reality they have no idea wtf they are selling. "Service manager" is usually a nice name for "idiot that doens't know shat about cars and is there to deny as many claims as possible".

Put it this way, if they say that **** is the same, then ask them to grab a Nissan oem PP, disc, TO bearing and then compare it to the Nissan Crap Kit that's opened. It's just some aftermarket crap that Nissan approves their dealers to sell. It wouldn't be a bad idea if the parts were worth a damn.

If you asked for OEM and didn't get OEM, then raise living hell about it. You can say, if this Crap Kit is the SAME as oem, then why doesn't the p/n's match? This ain't what came OUT of the car. I want the same parts that came on it from the factory. Not some aftermarket weak crap you are trying to peddle. Just raise a stick. I think what you want to accomplish is to have the dealer concede as much as possible. Whether it's free labor and you pay the difference from the Crap Kit vs OEM or you pay COST for new oem parts and get labor free or you get the new OEM parts free and you pay cost for labor. You know, something like that. If you can get them to replace everything for free with oem parts.......

nadir_s

key value clutch = < $200
OEM clutch = $235-250

only 1 outta the 4 dealerships I called up around my area even offered the OEM clutch. You gotta specifically ask for it, like Jeff said.

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

So, here's the current situation. DSM gave a big thumbs down. My service manager actually had an issue opened up with Carrie at Nissan Consumer Affairs as well which surprised me. I called her last night, but she has yet to get back to me. So as of right now, they are saying that any change to what they did will result in out of pocket costs for me for parts and labor. This did not make me happy.

Soooooo, I did what anyone would do. I emailed the GM of the dealership. I'll post more about the content of the letter and such later, but basically he got back to me first thing this morning via email and informed me he just got back from vacation and he will catch up with me later today. Something tells me that for a net cost of $300 tops that he will oblige given my past history with the dealership and the fact that I own 2 Maximas that I get serviced there. It's just a shame it has to be escalated this far. And there is still the president of Courtesy Auto Group if dealings with the GM fail.

Lots of people make many outrageous claims that dealerships have to deal with and shrug off. I'm just an average guy with a legitimate complaint and now it has to go all the way to the General Manager just because of the lack of respect for me and the lack of common sense of the service department. I will certainly be keeping you all posted. Stay tuned.

Gary95

That's hilarious, this guy talking bad about Maxima.org. The difference between Nissan service and Maxima.org, is that WE LOVE OUR CARS; to them, it's just a job. This forum captures tons of great information that saves us time and $$, which these service shops could care less about. Once in a while, you run into a mechanic who knows his stuff and wants to save you $$. I just wish it wasn't such a rare occurence.

But this is great info to know and should be added to the Shop FAQ. "When purchasing a new clutch from Nissan, you must specifically request OEM or else you will get the Key Value version, which is slightly cheaper $$ and definitely cheaper quality."

libradude97SE

Wow Joel, I'm really sorry to hear about all the runaround you're going through with the dealer because they didn't give you what you asked for. That sucks! Please do keep us posted; I wish you luck in getting it fixed the way you want! I think you have a good case though - you asked for OEM, they gave you Key Value; I hope now that the GM is involved you will get it taken care of to your satisfaction. My policy is to get everything in writing... that way they can't dispute anything. If they say anything else bad about the .org, I got your back! You're going about it the right way... but if things go south, we've got enough Max owners in the area to get a posse together, and they will be sorry!

peace man,
Chris

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

The final word is in from Nissan.. I had been referred to Jerry Glover who is apparently the head Customer Service guru from Courtesy Auto Group. Jerry told me they will NOT be replacing anything and here were his reasons:
1. I stated in this thread that I was satisfied and then when the comment was made about "key value" parts was where I became dissatisfied.
2. They put the clutches side by side and he states that "only a trained professional" would be able to tell the difference.

This guy is full of SHlT and whatever he is paid to be a customer service representative is WAY too much. I don't expect that much from the service reps that help you initially or the service manager, but the head Customer Service guy? Geez, how disappointing. I will NEVER go to this dealership ever again for ANYTHING.

As far as me stating I was satisfied, of course I was satisfied. My last clutch was slipping beyond belief and I was (and still am) babying the clutch for the duration of the break-in period. OF COURSE I WOULD BECOME DISSATISFIED. They put a part in my car that I DID NOT SPECIFICALLY REQUEST.

Then the statement about the clutches. All he did is CONFIRM the fact that they ARE two different clutches.

You can bet your bottom dollar this won't be the last you hear of this thread. I WILL persist and I WILL get my money back and/or a new clutch. I did not get the part I requested and furthermore, regardless of what I asked for, the dealership neglected to inform the consumer (me) of any options I had when purchasing the clutch. This is just WRONG and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so. This dealership just doesn't get it. I'm going to write a letter to every news channel and every newspaper in the area. Then I'm going to post a thread to boycott Courtesy auto group on maxima.org and tamparacing.com. If I can stop one person from buying a car from them I will feel vindicated. They tried to take advantage of the wrong consumer.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

thats right u do ur thing bro, and make sure they know that we wont stand for this key val bs, wtf do they think they are giving us cheap a$$ $hit

luckee2bhere

iTrader: (1)

I paid total of $640 for my ACT installed. i figured i would give it a try when it was only like $40 more than OEM.

i have had it for 9k miles...racing and everything...i do have a small leak of clutch fluid...havent targeted the cause of that problem yet. otherwise its pretty neat thing.

Dstyle

what you should do is contact the Better Business Bureau. You can file a report with them, then submitt a copy of the report to the dealership. this might be enough to scare them into complying with your requests. there should be a local office for the BBB in your area. If you said OEM and they gave you otherwise than they violated a verbally binding contract and knowingly mislead you into purchasing something that you didnt ask for, taking advantage of the fact that the product is inside your car and you cant readily see it in order to confirm what exactly it was. I know that my dad has used this tactic before in business deals. This is rediculous and i hope that you fight this in the name of nissan consumers everywhere!

Dstyle

ok, just talked to my dad who mentioned that you should inform the dealership that if they dont comply with your submission to The BBB than you should inform them that you will take them to Small Clames Court. There is a 50 dollar filing fee that they would have to pay for you if they lose. This might differ by state, but i know that my dad brings tennates who dont pay rent to Small Clames Court every now and then. Just mentioning these two tactics, the BBB and small clames court can often be enought to persuade them. but if you are really ****ed (which i would be as well) then i suggest playing hard ball and acting on these recomendations. hope this info helps.

peace

david

bhmax

Just for everyone's info, I got an e-mail from Randy at Courtesy saying that these parts are in fact OEM. Disc, pressure plate, and throwout bearing would be $184.53. JRNissanParts says that the clutch parts on their website are also OEM ( http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....5&pagenumber=3 ). Their cost shows $232.65. With their current discount of 30%, it would be $162.86.

endus

iTrader: (1)

Hey, just wanted to jump in here and say a big THANKS to everyone posting info on this issue. I'm a crusty **** on here sometimes, but I seriously REALLY appreciate everyone's contributions to this thread. This kind of info is why I read the org. My 98 SE has about 75K on it and I'm sure it will be time for a clutch soon. Because of this thread I will be able to go in there and tell them exactly what I want and ensure that it all gets done correctly. THANK YOU!!!

luckee2bhere

iTrader: (1)

ACT stage one for 12k miles...no problems...yet.

oh and NOONE drives more "spiritedly" than I!

Scruit

Talked to the Nissan dealer where I got my clutch from;

"The Key Value clutch kit is aimed at competing with discount parts stores like NAPA and Autozone. If you drove an '87 Sentra you would probably get a Key Value clutch. The OEM clutch is exactly that."

He also said that he sold me the OEM clutch, NOT the key value.

pjalst

I just ordered a OEM replacement clutch for $ 185 shipped from this site http://www.nissanparts.cc/. I made sure it wasn't that Key value stuff everyone's been bashing. They told me that the OEM have 3 different part numbers and the KEY Value has just one part# starting with 30001-_____
for the whole kit. So if you order a clutch and they give you one part number it's Key Value.

pjalst

I found a mechanic like this. He knows his stuff and is as honest as can be. He once sent me to another garage because he knew the other garage could do the work cheaper than he could. What mechanic does that? Anyone in the Saratoga area needs a mechanic send me an E mail and I'll give you his info.

Big_Ham

iTrader: (1)

UPDATE:

I decided to give the clutch a few months to see how it would all pan out. Frankly just like Jeff92se says, this is the worst clutch I have ever had the displeasure of driving. This is a clutch for a 4 cyl 120HP sentra, not for a 4th gen maxima. It has the most unpredictable catch of any clutch I've had and it feels like it is stuck to the floor because of NO resistance on the clutch pedal when you engage it. Just AWFUL. I thought there might have been a bit of hype here and it really wouldn't be all that bad, boy was I wrong.

So, anyway, on Wednesday I sent out the final letter. No email this time, sent it registered mail. In the letter I stated that I wanted them to either replace the clutch with the real deal free of charge or I wanted a full refund of the Key Value + labor on my credit card so I could get the work done elsewhere.

Additionally I sent a long follow up letter to the original letter I sent when this whole fiasco started. (Just to keep it straight here, that is one original letter, one follow up to it and then the "final" letter outlining my intentions.)It is detailed, intelligent and clearly shows the injustice. I cc'd everyone from local news and radio stations, the BBB and Nissan of North America (two different addresses). In the "final letter" I put them on a time crunch. I informed them that I expect a letter within 15 days of the date of that letter (so, they have to respond by the 23rd). I also stated that if they didn't respond within that time frame that the letter would actually go out to all that were cc'd and that I was 100% willing to take them to small claims court to recover costs.

I am DEADLY serious about this matter and I hope they realize that. I specifically said in the letter that I'm not going away until I get justice so they might as well comply. Besides, we're talking about a measly $600 here. It's not measly to me, but to a car dealership, this is seriously a drop in the bucket to get a monkey off your back. I'm kinda hoping I get to send the letter to the BBB and NNA just to see where that will go ... it would be interesting at the very least; yet on the other hand, I would like more to put this whole thing behind me.

Once I get a decision or a court judgement I will publish all letters here for all to see in case you should ever have to use a similar letter. I had my father, who is a lawyer, look over the letters and turn them into something a little more respectable. My original letters were good, but he really sharpened them up.

Anyway, stay tuned as I will have more news in 2 weeks at the most. I'm fighting for the rights of Maxima owners everywhere! And Jeff, you may need to get ready to

pjalst

I think you're on the right track with the letter and all, but I disagree with one thing you did. I disagree with the threat that you will contact the news and the other Org's if they don't comply. This threat kind of makes it sound like you're trying to coerse(sp) them into giving you what you want. I think you should of just wrote the letter and ended it by simply saying, "if they don't compy, you will be forced to take further legal actions". It's like playing poker, never reveal your hand until you have to.