JMAX95

The shop that did my shocks probably went crazy with the air tools. About a week later I noticed I was missing a lug. Lugnut and all, was broken off. Does anyone know how much the repair would cost and what parts are needed?

Daniel B. Martin

Installing a wheel with careful attention to lug nut torque can help avoid problems such as warped rotors and broken wheel lugs. A careful technician tightens the lug nuts by hand, using a torque wrench. Some techs use the pneumatic impact gun with a torque-limiting stick. They say "it's just as good" but I'm not convinced. Any shop which just zips those lug nuts on without a thought about correct torque does not deserve your business.

The broken lug can be replaced. The cost is about US$5 for a new lug and lug nut. This repair can be done by the home mechanic. It is covered in Chilton (page 8-2) and Haynes (page 10-16).

I've seen techs take a shortcut when replacing a wheel lug. They just hammer out the broken part. That's a brute force technique which may harm the wheel bearing.

JMAX95

Thanks so much Daniel. You're awesome.

What do I need to remove to get to replace the lug? Wheel, rotor? What else?

Daniel B. Martin

Front wheel, or rear?

Do you have (or have access to)
- a floor jack
- a sturdy jackstand
- a press tool such as shown in Chilton (page 8-3) or Haynes (page 10-17)
- a tie rod end remover
- an arbor press
- a hydraulic press
- a big hammer
- a 3/8" punch

Don't be discouraged if the answer is "no" to most of the above. I'll try to give an appropriate answer, geared to the equipment available.

OgreDave

iTrader: (1)

this happened to me too.

Heres a general type of fix it.. you buy the lug, you take the wheel off, the rotor off (i think, i barely remember) .. hammer old lug out, put new lug in, and use yer lugnut to sorta tighten it in, making sure the grooves match on the back.

Throw everything back on, tighten lugnuts to 80-85lbs, and you probably wanna re-check the replaced lug in a few days, because it takes a while for it to settle all the way into its hole..

JMAX95

Yes on the floor jack and hammer. I haven't seen the Chilton, so I'm not sure what's involved. Does the lug basically come out the other side? Anything else that I can whack it out with? Or do I definitely need certain specific tools you have listed?

JMAX95

Sorry I forgot, it's the front passenger side.

Washington DC Maxima

I've had about 10 replaced. Anyway each stud cost ~$1 or $2.. You could probably do it yourself but you will have to slide the caliper out of the way.

humaras

I took my car to firestone to get some new tires and they broke off a stud--and they charged me 34 (labor) to fix it...but when they broke it off again--I was just pissed off--so I told them it wasthe second time in a row--so...they fixed it for free.
both were from the same wheel--front passenger side...which ticked me off...
but you have to watch out with these air tool freaks...
*ugh*

CFster

95% of the shops out there will use the "brute force" approach of a wack with a hammer. It usually takes one wack and the stud is out. We replace them all the time like this and anyone who told me to take the damned knuckle apart and put it on a press I would tell them to stop smoking crack. The same goes for the torque wrench. On steel wheels I'll use an impact gun and on aluminum wheels I'll use torque sticks (they work). It the customer is driving a Porsche or something I'll use a torque wrench.
Any shop that tells you they use a torque wrench on every vehicle they do is blowing smoke up your ***.

plrod Black 95 SE

after taking the rotor off, just put it on a piece of wood on the floor and hit the lug nut with an appropriately sized center punch and it will pop right out the back. to put it on, present the new lug in place, put a bushing of some sort (I use an open end lug off my 3/4 ton truck) over the new lug to create an offset for the lug nut to hit against, then drive the lug nut in until the back of the lug is in position. make sure your bushing is wide enough so that the car's lug nut will not bottom out when you drive it in. I drive it on/out with an impact and it works very well and quick.

any shop that uses impacts to tighen lug nuts w/o concern for torque is taking advantage of the many uninformed car owners who don't know better and would never complain. Costco is my tire shop and they always use a manual torque wrench to set the lugs. I've watched them do it on mine and everyone elses, including Yugo's (being sarcastic here the person above sugesting that they only do it on expensive cars is big time full of it, I hope you don't work at a place like that but if you do, shame on you, you are exactly the reason I don't visit places like that.

CFster

"Costco is my tire shop and they always use a manual torque wrench to set the lugs"

You're going to have a hard time making me believe that one. A high volume tire shop - sure.

I'm not full of it - i just live in the real goddam world is all. Either you can be like Martin and quote word for word out of the Haynes or Chilton manual like its the bible, or you can get out in the real world and see how things are done for real. We install over 500 tires in my shop a month and we sure as hell dont use a torque wrench on most of them. We have NEVER had a car come back for broken studs, warped rotors, cracked rims etc.
And BTW, I'm in a fleet shop. Meaning that as well as customer cars, we have our own fleet of over 200 vehicles that rotate out anywhere from a couple of months to 10 years. We see a lot of turn over sometimes or we get to care for a vehicle for a 10 years. Anything from cars, trucks, buses, wreckers and the occasional race car. I have never seen a problem on our vehicles related to using an impact gun. You use a torque wrench on the ones with expensive aluminum wheels and a damned impact gun on the rest. Maybe its because our techs aren't morons who just keep socking down a lug nut until it stops turning. You get a feel for what is the correct tightness. And I've been pretty close when checked with a torque wrench. Our tire supplier who does 500 tires a DAY does the same thing. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use a torque wrench - it's the proper thing to do. I just don't think it's necessary in all cases. And any shop/tech that broke the stud with an impact gun probably wouldn't use the torque wrench correctly either and is an idiot. Doubly so since they charged the guy for it.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well Discount Tire is a high volume tire shop and I personally saw them use a torque wrench to tightened the lugs down. They set the airwrench on real low setting, then finished up w/ the torque wrench. I and to take a wheel off a few days after they did it and the lugs were not overly tight.

plrod Black 95 SE

So maybe your techs are good ones and can "feel" when to let off, that's well and good for you and your high tech (high volume) shop but in my experience with tire shops in my area, they use a low skill type tech and I wouldn't trust this type of person touching my car. I've had enough personal experience with crappy work from high volume shops and have heard horror stories told by ex employees regarding methods utilized to generate/promote high volume by management. The quality guys walk/turnover because they have higher ethical & quality standards and refuse to work for free when the customer does come back. If you don't follow this, I mean that yes, the tech (if you can call him that, because in my book he's a low life who needs any job and will put up with the treatment given by volume shops)has to do the work again and doesn't get paid for his labor!

You are a Fool to critizize Daniel here. Why don't you give out the name and location/s of your business' since you are so proud of your work. While Daniel may not've hit this one right on the lug nut (LOL), his reputation here is better than you will ever achieve smart guy. That's why I felt a need to add to the thread. I'll be the first to agree, the manual does not always suggest the best approach considering available resources.

The bottom line is: The reader should judge for themselves, do you want to entrust your car to a volume tire shop or not. There are alternatives I assure you. Find yourself a good shop that torques your wheels with a torque wrench.

Enough said. If I were to take your comments at face value, I think I'd be looking into the auction market for a tire changer and a balancer.

Daniel B. Martin

This thread has generate some heat! That's okay, it illustrates a variety of opinions and shop practices.

Given your limited equipment, I'll describe the "brute force" technique mentioned previously.

Buy a new wheel lug and lug nut. Note the splines on the shoulder of the lug. That's what keeps the lug seated in the hub and prevents it from turning when the lug nut is loosened or tightened.

Loosen all four remaining lug nuts one full turn. Turn the steering wheel to full right lock. Jack the front right corner of the car. You won't be crawling under the car so a jackstand won't be required. Remove the wheel.

The brake caliper is fastened to the torque member with 2 bolts. Remove the lower of the two and swing the caliper up as far as it will go. Remove the brake pads.

The torque member is fastened to the steering knuckle with 2 bolts. Remove both bolts. Don't let that caliper dangle; use a piece of stiff wire to hang it from one of the strut spring coils.

Remove the rotor. No bolts, it just pulls off. Now you are looking at the hub.

Rotate the hub so that the broken lug is aligned with the cutout in the stamped steel baffle plate. The cutout is where the caliper was located before you removed it. Use a hammer and punch of suitable size to drive the broken lug inward. It will fall free of the hub.

Insert the new lug into the hole in the hub. Put some kind of spacer over the lug threads. The manual suggests 4 flat washers. Put a drop of oil on the threads and screw the lug nut backwards onto the lug. "Backwards" means to have the flat face of the lug nut bearing against the washers. Tighten the lug nut until it bottoms. That draws the lug into proper position in the hub. Remove the lug nut and washers.

Reassemble all of the removed parts. Tighten the five lug nuts to 80 foot-pounds.

This may seem like a lot of work but it really isn't. You can do this in less than an hour, without prior experience. If you've done this job before you can do it in 30 minutes.

Daniel B. Martin

It's not my intention to start a flame war here. Each of us can describe our preferred repair methods and explore the pros and cons. One of the great things about this forum is sharing knowledge and experience.

That's true. In the commercial world there is always an urge to do a job the fastest way. The fastest isn't always the best way. The hammer blows shock the wheel bearing. Chipped ***** and brinnelled races may be the unintended consequence. That wheel bearing could fail a year later later and the Maxima owner will have a hard time convincing the tire shop that they are responsible.

I listen to what they say, and I trust what I see. My local NTB store says they use a torque wrench on every lug nut. They invite the owners to stand in the shop and watch. (None of this "insurance regulations prohibit customers..." baloney.) Whenever I've been there, work was done exactly as claimed. Every lug nut was tightened by hand with a torque wrench.

OgreDave

iTrader: (1)

Youll find that American Tire Co does torque wrench each tire, and give u a receipt of it too, torqued by who, etc.

Ive seen them do it

Pappa Grande

What's the basic issue here?
If you use a high impact wrench your lug nut will break off?
When I was in shop in high school the first thing we did was tire rotations. All the retards in class used the impact gun and we never used torque wrenchs on the lugs. Does all this mean that the lug nuts on those cars would have a higher chance of breaking because of using an impact wrench (by retards such as myself)?

Daniel B. Martin

Misuse of a powerful pneumatic impact wrench may result in
- lug nuts so tight that you could not mount your spare in the event of a roadside flat
- lugs weakened, stripped, or broken
- non-uniform lug nut torque causing disk brake rotors to warp

JMAX95

Thanks for the info Daniel. I will get to it tonight.

Aside from the broken stud, using an impact gun also sometimes screws up the lug holes of your wheels. I have 17" SSR's and noticed that there are dents in the holes. Using a torque wrench is definitely the way to go.

Some tire shops advertise tire installs in 30 minutes or less. I doubt they'd be using a torque wrench though.

MAXDriver

Yep, even when they fix my nail puncture air leak -free of charge-, they still use torque wrench.

Youll find that American Tire Co does torque wrench each tire, and give u a receipt of it too, torqued by who, etc.

Ive seen them do it
[/I][/QUOTE]

CFster

plrod Black 95 SE -

"You are a Fool to critizize Daniel here. Why don't you give out the name and location/s of your business' since you are so proud of your work."

I'm not criticizing Daniel. He provides a valuable service to this forum. Let's make no mistake, his recommendations are always spot on. I'm saying there are sometimes alternatives to text book methods. Some things you learn through experience you know.
I'm not giving out the name of the business I work for here, but I can tell you it's the largest independently run automobile auction in the country. I run a seven bay shop that employs eight techs. We also have a state of the art paint and body shop and several detail shops. We are a GM sponsored factory auction, also having contracts with Diamler-Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Suburu, VW, Volvo, Saab, Mercedes and Nissan/Infiniti. Over 150,000 cars a year go through our auction. We don't do retail work at my shop, we just provide a service for our accounts. And we try to get things right the first time - because if we don't, an account may pull their 10,000 cars a year out of our auction and run them through somebody elses. So far we haven't had any complaints about the quality of our work. Yes I'm proud of it.

plrod Black 95 SE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by plrod Black 95 SE
[I]after taking the rotor off, just put it on a piece of wood on the floor and hit the lug nut with an appropriately sized center punch and it will pop right out the back. to put it on, present the new lug in place, put a bushing of some sort (I use an open end lug off my 3/4 ton truck) over the new lug to create an offset for the lug nut to hit against, then drive the lug nut in until the back of the lug is in position. make sure your bushing is wide enough so that the car's lug nut will not bottom out when you drive it in. I drive it on/out with an impact and it works very well and quick.

These instructions are for the rears, not the front.

OgreDave

iTrader: (1)

[/I][/QUOTE]

Yup, thats how I noticed. You buy ANYTHING there, theyll help you install it for free.. they offered to install my gorilla nuts (lug locks) for free .. too bad i didnt have the key with me. (bad practice)

But yah, im very very surprised at their quality of service. Everytime you show up, they come out and greet you, ask you what you need..

plrod Black 95 SE

What you have essentially said is that your shop does not work on the same exact car more than one time. You work on cars prior to them being auctioned.

The problems that result from overtorquing are not necessarily ones which would result in a failure the next time the wheels are taken off the car, more than likely the failure would develope as a result of repeated overtorquing over the life of the studs. I would be willing to wager that in a controlled study of studs on which lugs are installed without a torque wrench versus studs where lugs are installed with a torque wrench, the mean time between replacement of the later will far exceed the life of the lugs tightened w/o a torque wrench.

Again, while the methods utilized by your high volume shop may work fine for your situation, they are not the methods which best meet the needs of the auto enthusiast/owner. So this is not a critizism of your practices, more it's a lesson for the enthusiast who will maintain the vehicle for a much longer time than the dealer preparing it for an auction.