Cattman VQ30DE header pics
09-30-2003, 05:02 PM
#41
As you said, this is not really a fair comparison. Motorvate's 95 (or 96?) Maxima dynoed with 15" rims, whereas Cattman's 97 SE has the 16" (or maybe even larger) rims. We all know that bigger, heavier rims will hurt your dyno reading. That's part of the reason that 95s are faster than the 97-99 Maximas. Put these headers on Motorvates Maxima and the dyno will most likely be better. Well, maybe not. I think Motorvate upgraded his rims, too
Having said that, if you take that into account and pay attention to just the area under the curve, or average hp of the dyno graphs, you'll see that the Cattman headers beef up the area quite a bit. Peak hp may not be stupendous, but the average bump up in hp is quite significant. That will translate into a faster Max (of course), but also one that easier to put the power down because it's so linear. I still think the headers are a great investment for anyone trying to maximize their NA performance, MEVI or not. Of cousre with an MEVI this thing would be just sick, and still totally reliable.
Lastly, NOS and other mods may be cheaper ways to get even more hp, but the headers still keep the car NA. Reliability and durability on the VQ30DE will remain solid. I'd like to see a VQ30DE motor with NOS that's gone over 200K miles, with extensicve use of the laughing gas, not an empty bottle in the trunk for the past 100K miles.
DW
Having said that, if you take that into account and pay attention to just the area under the curve, or average hp of the dyno graphs, you'll see that the Cattman headers beef up the area quite a bit. Peak hp may not be stupendous, but the average bump up in hp is quite significant. That will translate into a faster Max (of course), but also one that easier to put the power down because it's so linear. I still think the headers are a great investment for anyone trying to maximize their NA performance, MEVI or not. Of cousre with an MEVI this thing would be just sick, and still totally reliable.
Lastly, NOS and other mods may be cheaper ways to get even more hp, but the headers still keep the car NA. Reliability and durability on the VQ30DE will remain solid. I'd like to see a VQ30DE motor with NOS that's gone over 200K miles, with extensicve use of the laughing gas, not an empty bottle in the trunk for the past 100K miles.
DW
Originally Posted by MAXSRB
Some dyno comparisons from Cattman's Header/Y-pipe
To a y-pipe on a 5 speed maxima with about 100k miles as well.
The above chart produced these results. Quoted from motorvate.ca.
A PEEK gain of about 18 HP (from 160 to 178)
An AVERAGE gain of 19 HP from 4,000 to 6,500 RPM (this in more important than peek, as you will see with the Torque chart below)
A 31 HP gain at 6,000 - 6,200 RPM
Sorry its a bit large, and mind you its not really a fair comparison since it is not the same car. Nevertheless it seems the y-pipe header combo has a more consistent gain in the lower to mid-range rpm range. I am just hear to prove that yes a y-pipe does produce gains of about 18 hp peak to peak. I have heard people say that a y-pipe on its own cannot produce 18 hp peak to peak. I am sorry if i anger people in the process of showing this but i believe it to be true. Credit gos to Cattman and The Web Admin of www.motorvate.ca.
To a y-pipe on a 5 speed maxima with about 100k miles as well.
The above chart produced these results. Quoted from motorvate.ca.
A PEEK gain of about 18 HP (from 160 to 178)
An AVERAGE gain of 19 HP from 4,000 to 6,500 RPM (this in more important than peek, as you will see with the Torque chart below)
A 31 HP gain at 6,000 - 6,200 RPM
Sorry its a bit large, and mind you its not really a fair comparison since it is not the same car. Nevertheless it seems the y-pipe header combo has a more consistent gain in the lower to mid-range rpm range. I am just hear to prove that yes a y-pipe does produce gains of about 18 hp peak to peak. I have heard people say that a y-pipe on its own cannot produce 18 hp peak to peak. I am sorry if i anger people in the process of showing this but i believe it to be true. Credit gos to Cattman and The Web Admin of www.motorvate.ca.
should dyno with these. i think the dyno graphs would be very pleasing!
09-30-2003, 05:44 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Makes sense that the gains would be proportional. Even without SC, it wouldn't surprise me if a na car with MEVI,test pipe/high flow cat,B pipe,modified ECU and intake,that makes power up to 7k rpm would come out closer to 10hp instead of 4-5hp increase with headers.
09-30-2003, 06:01 PM
#44
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 66
I told you, I told you, I told you that these where sweet!!!! 
O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I'm going over to Cartek as recommended, I'm going to take off my 18" Konig Holes w/Nitto's 245/40/18 as the weigh the car down (but look nice as hell) and put on my old 15" sawblades in my Mom's back yard, Dino it w/out the headers and after the install. However when they do the install I'm getting my GReddy catback aswell. Or maybe I'll just do it w/ my 18's. What do you guy's think?
O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I'm going over to Cartek as recommended, I'm going to take off my 18" Konig Holes w/Nitto's 245/40/18 as the weigh the car down (but look nice as hell) and put on my old 15" sawblades in my Mom's back yard, Dino it w/out the headers and after the install. However when they do the install I'm getting my GReddy catback aswell. Or maybe I'll just do it w/ my 18's. What do you guy's think?
09-30-2003, 06:08 PM
#45
Originally Posted by MAXSRB
Some dyno comparisons from Cattman's Header/Y-pipe
To a y-pipe on a 5 speed maxima with about 100k miles as well.
The above chart produced these results. Quoted from motorvate.ca.
A PEEK gain of about 18 HP (from 160 to 178)
An AVERAGE gain of 19 HP from 4,000 to 6,500 RPM (this in more important than peek, as you will see with the Torque chart below)
A 31 HP gain at 6,000 - 6,200 RPM
Sorry its a bit large, and mind you its not really a fair comparison since it is not the same car. Nevertheless it seems the y-pipe header combo has a more consistent gain in the lower to mid-range rpm range. I am just hear to prove that yes a y-pipe does produce gains of about 18 hp peak to peak. I have heard people say that a y-pipe on its own cannot produce 18 hp peak to peak. I am sorry if i anger people in the process of showing this but i believe it to be true. Credit gos to Cattman and The Web Admin of www.motorvate.ca.
To a y-pipe on a 5 speed maxima with about 100k miles as well.
The above chart produced these results. Quoted from motorvate.ca.
A PEEK gain of about 18 HP (from 160 to 178)
An AVERAGE gain of 19 HP from 4,000 to 6,500 RPM (this in more important than peek, as you will see with the Torque chart below)
A 31 HP gain at 6,000 - 6,200 RPM
Sorry its a bit large, and mind you its not really a fair comparison since it is not the same car. Nevertheless it seems the y-pipe header combo has a more consistent gain in the lower to mid-range rpm range. I am just hear to prove that yes a y-pipe does produce gains of about 18 hp peak to peak. I have heard people say that a y-pipe on its own cannot produce 18 hp peak to peak. I am sorry if i anger people in the process of showing this but i believe it to be true. Credit gos to Cattman and The Web Admin of www.motorvate.ca.
I see this test get hauled out periodically. I always considered it a pretty bizarre anomaly -- I mean, 31hp, that's absolutely unprecedented (and, it totally lacks legitimacy as I will explain below) -- but I didn't stop to give it adequate attention, which is a mistake. Whenever there is an anomalous result, the circumstances should be examined in detail, and there are few results more anomalous than this one (i.e. difficult if not impossible to replicate). There is no free lunch, and there are no 30hp y-pipes. I'm not suggesting that anyone is purposefully distorting anything, but there are some weird numbers here which, once explained, help put the wild results from this test in the proper context.
The Budget test car is a 5-speed so I can generally compare with my car. I assume it had some kind of intake, which would put it on a par with mine. 100k miles, ditto.
The first thing to note is that the only remarkable aspect of the budget y results is the difference between before and after. The power levels in the "after" test are, at best, mediocre for a car with a y-pipe and intake. More importantly, for some reason the power measurements in the baseline test are absolutely sick. Something is wierd here. It would appear that either the car wasn't running well when the baseline was run, or its performance was held back (expecially at the end of the run) in some way that didn't affect the "after" test. No other explanation for these kind of power readings.
I'll try to make a table to illustrate this. Numbers on the left are rpms, in thousands. Second column is the budget baseline hp and the third is the Cattman baseline hp. Fourth column is the difference between the two. Fifth is budget y-pipe and sixth is cattman headers. Seventh is the difference between columns five and six.
3.0 92 90 -2 92 94 +2
3.5 112 118 +6 118 125 +7
4.0 123 139 +16 130 147 +17
4.5 142 156 +14 153 169 +16
5.0 153 167 +13 171 184 +13
5.5 153 164 +11 178 181 +3
6.0 137 158 +21 168 175 +7
AVG 130 142 +11 144 153 +9
The two baseline tests should be relatively on par, but they begin on a par at 3000 rpm and then the budget car just goes into the bucket -- something is clearly wrong with the car or the way the run was done. The +31 hp power claim is measured at 6000 rpm, when the power fell off a cliff for some reason. My car's baseline run did nothing of the kind and at 6k, was making 21hp more than the budget car.
Bottom line is, the +31 hp is a meaningless figure because it was derived at the point in the baseline test where the car was either faltering or the driver was taking the foot off the accellerator (look how the budget car couldn't hold power past 5k in the baseline run). Other before/after power margins are also discounted because the baseline run was oddly compromised throughout -- no reason for those low power levels. Whatever the reason for the low baseline run, if the same part was put on a car that, for whatever reason, started out making the power it should, you would not see the same results.
Because I think there was something fundamentally flawed in the budget test vehicle, I will not dwell on the difference in power output other than to note that we were running huge power advantages in that very critical 4-5k epm range.
Conversely, the test vehicle for the Cattman header run performed consistantly with other Maxima runs and norms in both tests, in terms of actual power and the shape of the power curve.
Finally, I'll re-emphasize that I don't think anyone is trying to purposefully deceive, its just that there are good and bad dyno runs, and they can be affected by a whole lot of circumstances. There is nothing anomalous about the test we did on our headers, all the patterns are right and there is no reason the results cannot be replicated. The budget test, is clearly a one-off oddity. No one is claiming to routinely get 20 or 25hp from y-pipes and certainly not 30+. The underlying numbers are odd and because it would not be easliy replicated the test is not a legitimate counterpoint.
As usual, I've used a sledgehammer to drive a tack, but hope that this information is useful to somebody.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
09-30-2003, 06:24 PM
#46
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 66
I'm a believer, I saw the spec's along time ago on the org and the best part about the whole thing is the way you Brian discribed the sound. Doe's anyone care about the way they sound? I do, and of couse the HP gains. Also It looks like everyone has kind of a, darn I wish I would have waited a little longer or that's alot of cash tone. Well maybe I'd be a little disapointed too. Save a little, now is when I'm really getting going with my mods! I'm also planning on going with the NX 75 wet shot set up aswell as the JWT ECU and MEVI combo. I'll be happy. Never stop chasing your dreams and don't make excuses.
09-30-2003, 08:26 PM
#47
Originally Posted by NOMAD MAXIMA
I told you, I told you, I told you that these where sweet!!!!
O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I'm going over to Cartek as recommended, I'm going to take off my 18" Konig Holes w/Nitto's 245/40/18 as the weigh the car down (but look nice as hell) and put on my old 15" sawblades in my Mom's back yard, Dino it w/out the headers and after the install. However when they do the install I'm getting my GReddy catback aswell. Or maybe I'll just do it w/ my 18's. What do you guy's think?
O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I'm going over to Cartek as recommended, I'm going to take off my 18" Konig Holes w/Nitto's 245/40/18 as the weigh the car down (but look nice as hell) and put on my old 15" sawblades in my Mom's back yard, Dino it w/out the headers and after the install. However when they do the install I'm getting my GReddy catback aswell. Or maybe I'll just do it w/ my 18's. What do you guy's think?
I'd like a true before and after dyno just changing the header. As far as I know you will be the first in the world installing & testing the finished product.
Oh, and whichever wheels are easiest for you. If you're not trying to compete dyno vs dyno then just keep the Konig's on. Just make sure the same wheels are on for both tests!
Thanks in advance.
09-30-2003, 08:58 PM
#48
Originally Posted by NOMAD MAXIMA
I'm a believer, I saw the spects along time ago on the org and the best part about the whole thing is the way you Brian discribed the sound. Doe's anyone care about the way they sound? I do, and of couse the HP gains. Also It looks like everyone has kind of a, darn I wish I would have waited a little longer or that's alot of cash tone. Well maybe I'd be a little disapointed too. Save a little, now is when I'm really getting going with my mods! I'm also planning on going with the NX 75 wet shot set up aswell as the JWT ECU and MEVI combo. I'll be happy. Never stop chasing your dreams and don't make excuses.
thats all fine and well, but half of us can't afford that let alone the install costs ur looking at well over $1000 for install and the product altogether, u can do alot with $1000 in other aspects besides a car
10-24-2003, 08:19 AM
#49
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 735
bump
Any updates on those dynos??
For those of you that were asking, I'll post the installation instructions. These are available as well as more pictures from Brian upon request, just email him, and I'm sure he'll get back to you. Thx Brian.
Cattman Performance
Exhaust Header System
Fitting Instructions
Nissan Maxima and Infiniti I30, with VQ30DE engine
1995-1998, all versions
1999-2000, Federal emissions only
Note: this is a challenging installation and should not be attempted by anyone without significant experience in automotive mechanics. These instructions are provided as a general guideline for the convenience of the customer. The accuracy of the instructions is not guaranteed, and Cattman Performance is not liable in any way for the success of the installation procedure.
Front Bank
Remove radiator and disconnect auto hoses off gearbox (this may be optional). Disconnect the battery or fit an “anti-zap” device.
Remove bottom plastic guards.
Unbolt & remove bottom section of exhaust pipe, up to the first flange.
Unclip the front bank exhaust sensor from plug on top of engine.
Undo & remove front heat shield from manifold.
Undo & remove front exhaust manifold & clean head surface thoroughly. Replace with header front bank with the new gasket (check that nuts don’t get caught on welds)
Bolt front bank together only finger tight at this stage.
Remove oxygen sensor from old manifold & fit into front bank.
Rear Bank
Support engine from bottom of gearbox.
Remove bottom cross member, including bracket onto engine.
Remove heat shield from top of rear manifold (4 * 6mm bolts)
Undo & remove oxygen sensor
Remove steering box cover.
Disconnect the EGR pipe that attaches to the rear manifold.
Undo & remove rear bank exhaust manifolds.
Check & clean the head surface as required.
Fit header rear bank & secure with nuts finger tight (check that nuts don’t get caught on welds)
Refit the EGR pipe only finger tight at this stage
Refit the rear oxygen sensor.
Replace bottom cross member & bracket onto engine rear
Replace steering box cover.
Install bottom exhaust pipe join (“Y” pipe) and flexi bellows.
Refit existing exhaust system
Tighten ALL bolts starting from the front & working to the rear. DO NOT FORGET THE EGR PIPE & O2 SENSORS.
Replace radiator, plastic air intake & plastic guards, etc.
Any updates on those dynos??
For those of you that were asking, I'll post the installation instructions. These are available as well as more pictures from Brian upon request, just email him, and I'm sure he'll get back to you.
Thx Brian.Cattman Performance
Exhaust Header System
Fitting Instructions
Nissan Maxima and Infiniti I30, with VQ30DE engine
1995-1998, all versions
1999-2000, Federal emissions only
Note: this is a challenging installation and should not be attempted by anyone without significant experience in automotive mechanics. These instructions are provided as a general guideline for the convenience of the customer. The accuracy of the instructions is not guaranteed, and Cattman Performance is not liable in any way for the success of the installation procedure.
Front Bank
Remove radiator and disconnect auto hoses off gearbox (this may be optional). Disconnect the battery or fit an “anti-zap” device.
Remove bottom plastic guards.
Unbolt & remove bottom section of exhaust pipe, up to the first flange.
Unclip the front bank exhaust sensor from plug on top of engine.
Undo & remove front heat shield from manifold.
Undo & remove front exhaust manifold & clean head surface thoroughly. Replace with header front bank with the new gasket (check that nuts don’t get caught on welds)
Bolt front bank together only finger tight at this stage.
Remove oxygen sensor from old manifold & fit into front bank.
Rear Bank
Support engine from bottom of gearbox.
Remove bottom cross member, including bracket onto engine.
Remove heat shield from top of rear manifold (4 * 6mm bolts)
Undo & remove oxygen sensor
Remove steering box cover.
Disconnect the EGR pipe that attaches to the rear manifold.
Undo & remove rear bank exhaust manifolds.
Check & clean the head surface as required.
Fit header rear bank & secure with nuts finger tight (check that nuts don’t get caught on welds)
Refit the EGR pipe only finger tight at this stage
Refit the rear oxygen sensor.
Replace bottom cross member & bracket onto engine rear
Replace steering box cover.
Install bottom exhaust pipe join (“Y” pipe) and flexi bellows.
Refit existing exhaust system
Tighten ALL bolts starting from the front & working to the rear. DO NOT FORGET THE EGR PIPE & O2 SENSORS.
Replace radiator, plastic air intake & plastic guards, etc.
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