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1. Not sure where you get these percentages, but dyno proven runs, I've seen auto-maximas showing 7-8whp less than what manuals produce... I used my numbers as a reference...

And to use your numbers; Manuals=255whp, Autos=240whp thats a 15whp difference favoring the manual tranny. So I guess you see my point with hp loss.


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2. Well to tell you the truth, I've noticed the difference in the front end handling of the car... So balance is everything when it comes to those numbers.





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3. Well I think you did not read my previuos post on page1.. When it comes to professional drag-racing yeah those 3 speed autos are built for quick shifts... Not sure what level 10 does to maxima auto trannies, but please give me the details on how they strengthen the gear-box...

With respect to my car, my Maxima is turbo-charged, and many of the FI powered Maxima's on the forum, producing BIG power, are running manuals.. You may have a hand full running decent power with autos, but not compared to the 5spds. So please keep that in mind...


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4. Like I said you need to read my previous post.



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5. Don't get upset... Remeber it's about the driver in most cases... But facts are facts... Drive a manual and you'll see the difference.

 

I made the longest reponse to this and the damn .Org said I wasn't logged in. I lost it all and when I went back to homepage it said "Welcome, Vyrus. You have 49 PMs." WTF?

1. Granted the automatic tranny has about 5% more drivetrain loss than a manual. I was just pointing out your error in calculation.

2. You can say you feel the difference and I'm sure you do, but that's unusual. I have a full size spare, nitrous bottle, racing seats, and I couldn't feel any handling differences from any of them. I haven't pushed a 5spd Maxima so I can't say to be honest and fair.

3. Level 10 does a LOT to the transmission... high-stall torque converter, heavy duty solenoids, stiffer bands, tiptronic kit etc. It is NOT something you would want for everyday driving, but granted it does exist and is a very efficient transmission. BTW I wasn't trying to point out that there are as many high-power automatic maximas as manuals, just that they exist too and can be very fast.

5. I drove my brother's 6spd 350Z for a month while he was out of town. I know what you mean that an automatic is significantly easier to launch well than a manual. But it is far from just "feather the pedal". You can look through certain people's auto timeslips and see people improve with no modifications. I could say launching a manual is just "letting off the clutch and pushing the accelerator" but we all know that is a far from the reality. Many of the faster automatics have varied launching techniques, not just "feathering the pedal."

Anyways I'm not trying to attack anyone, we both know each transmission has its up and downs. It's like arguing over what color is best. I pick blue.
-Cyrus

 

I have to disagree about the different transmissions being like arguing about different colors. Colors are opinions, and transmissions are just fact. The manuals, if you know how to drive them right, will probably win over auto about 8 out of every 10 times. That is it. I mean, you can argue about Level 10 autos and all that, but c'mon, how many people really have that type of tranny in their max? not a lot, I would guess. That is not comparing apples to apples. If you are going to do that, you have to compare it to like a manual with a STS and lightened flywheel, and other improvments (better clutch). But we were not talking about that, we were just talking about manual vs. auto.

 

Bruce you're 100% right.

However that wasn't what Morpheus and I were arguing about. We were talking about the transmissions as a whole: weight, gearing, consistency, drivetrain loss etc.

8 out of 10 times a 5spd would beat an automatic Maxima, I definitely agree. But for those spraying nitrous, it is a different game (automatics spray through shifts). For those with a Level 10 buildup it is a different game. For those with a high-stall torque converter and VB mod if is a different game. There are lots of circumstance in which an auto can be faster. You cannot say one is "better" than the other. Faster? Sure you can say the stock 5spd is faster than the stock auto. But you can't say it's better. That's just preference.
-Cyrus

 

I have to say though. If you take an auto maxima vs a manual maxima and you throw nitrous into the equation it ALL changes. My buddy has a 96 SE auto with the same mods i had at the time, yet he was spraying a 65 shot vs my 75 shot. From a stop it was absolutely no contest. He would throw about 1-2 cars on me every time. Autos are absolutely fantastic as far as handling nitrous in 1st gear since its so tall. I couldnt even spray a 50shot in 1st gear much less a 75shot. Now from a roll, its a different story...


They all have thier ups and downs, but i stick by autos are for grannies





Eric

 

WTF? What in the hell are you people smoking? I have no choice but to bash autotragics here. Unless you have a 9 or 10 second car, manual shifting will ALWAYS make your car faster END OF STORY!

However, what most people don't realize is that it often takes nearly perfect gear switching in order for a vehicle with a manual trans to actually be faster than one with an auto trans.

In essence, a good 5-spd or 6-spd driver should still be faster than a good auto driver (BTW, I don't think there such thing as a good automatic trans driver but anway...) even with the SAME whp on both cars.

 

The other thing that I have to bring up that refutes the thing said about "neither being better or worse....it is just preference,"......What about dependability? I mean, the automatic is not going to last anywhere near a long as the manual is, under any circumstances. Even if you Super Charge a manual, it will probably outlast the tranny in a stock auto. That is, if you know how to drive the manual correctly.

 

That may be the case with most cars, but I don't think that's the case with the Maxima. I really don't hear of many automatic tranny people having them go bad unless they are producing mass power, in which case manuals do too. In fact I can think of many more 5spd 4th Gens with problems (like ericdwong) and clutch replacement is pretty common as well. But whatever, I know with most cars you would go through maybe 1 or 2 clutches when you replace the auto tranny, which is probably 7x as expensive as those clutches! I see where you're coming from.
-Cyrus

 

you are far off on this one. 95% of threads that I see on Maxima.org regarding trans problems come from automatics, whether boosted or not. A 5-spd Maxima trans will always outlast an auto Maxima trans, provided that the driver knows how to drive a 5-spd.

Anyway, a clutch is not part of a manual tranny so I don't get your point in even mentioning the clutch here. Clutch has everything to do with the driver, what rpm he launches at etc etc. AND nothing to do with the tranny.

Even then, what you say can easily be refuted because of all my friends, many of whom happen to driver 5-spd's, have gone over 100K miles on their cars (few of them with Maximas, also) with original clutches. I owned a 91 Accord DX before I got my Maxima and sold it at 165K miles, with an original clutch.

 

Well my point still remains, and I'm not knocking autos... But power-loss is unacceptable!!!! And autos rob power!!!! Bottom line!!! In the performance world the key is to gain as much power as you can!!! Not loose it!!!

And as far as gearing goes... There was a thread posted a while back concerning, the manual final drive gear... There was a way to increase the gear ratio a bit taller resulting in higher top speeds... I think it was the final drive gear from the Altima... So there are possiblities...

 

I highly doubt the manual tranny will last any longer then the auto. Seriously, let my cousin drive a stick or an auto and he'll break either one! But, to be honest there are many stick owners who only put a higher rated clutch in thier Max and blow the tranny up. IMO both trannys suck and someone needs to make an airshift kit.

 

I only sort of agree with you, and it's about the "both trannys suck" part.

Anyway, I watched speedvision recently and they specifically said that both automatic and manual clutch shifting trannys are going to be a thing of the past VERY VERY SOON.

More and more cars, especially performance cars, made in and after 2006 will come standard equipped with an SMG, which I believe stands for "Sequential Manual Gearbox" for those of you who don't know. In simple terms, it's a formula-one-based "manual" shifting technology.

I know for a fact that the new BMW M3, M4, M5, and M6 of 2007+ will all come SMG's, as will many other sport coupes and sedans.

BTW, the new BMW's are going to own the road. In case you don't know, by the year 2006/7, the new M3 will only be made as a 4-door sedan with 400 hp V8. The M4 will be practically like the "coupe M3" with also 400 hp V8, except stylistically different, much nicer and best looking BMW ever made IMO. The M5, which will be out soon will come with a 500 hp V10. Finally, like with the M4, the M6 will be a coupe version of the M5, but again stylistically different and much nicer with an astonishing 600 hp V10. BMW's amaze me and I hope to own one by then, that is, 2007.

 

Please explain more on SMG.


I think what he originally meant was which is overall faster, not which has a higher top speed.

Wait till May. You're not crying to hard now, but you will be then, when you finally drive a 5-speed Max. Big difference from your old Prelude. 100 extra ft/lbs of torque will put a smile on your face.

 

It's basically a clutch-less manual. The shifting of gears is left to the driver (while some do have a full automatic mode, many do not). The shifts are very quick as everything is electronic. The current M3 has it as an option, and it is very popular.

-Cyrus

 

Look it up on google as I'm sure you'll find much more detailed info on it. With SMG, you have two flat rods sticking out on the left and right of the steering wheels, just like in formula 1 vehicles, where you have the turn signal rods now.

Of course, although still often debated, it is speculated that most performance vehicles will benefit from SMG because of faster gear switching.

HOWEVER, many do not see SMG as good because it's like a motorcycle gearbox. You have to go 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. In other words, you cannot skip gears, you must go in sequence. So in order to go from 5th to 3rd, you must first go through 4th in a fully manual SMG. This, as it turns out, is not at all good. Think about it how many times when you're in 5th at 60mph and somebody wants to race. Well, in order to really punch it, you MUST go to 3rd, not 4th. In our 5-spd's today we can do just that, go from 5th right to 3rd. In SMG, you must first tap down to 4th and then 3rd.

True, you can downshift through 4th into 3rd by tapping really fast, like on a sport bike, but it has been proven that it takes far longer to do that than it takes for a really good 5-spd driver to go from 5th right into 3rd, especially with short-shifters.

 

That's an excellent point. I think no matter how good these computer-controlled gearboxes get, they will never surpass the sheer control and just plain fun of a simple, mechanical manual transmission. And to date every single one has significant drawbacks that may outweigh the (amazing) benefits of the SMG, for instance. The fact that you can't skip gears would definitely be a big drawback for me. And come on, how is it to have little paddles on the damn steering column to shift with? Even if you don't ever use them, they're still PADDLES. I'd never want anything but a stick shifter.

 

Oh Yeah... Well let me tell you about SMG's on BMW's... I have two friends, One with a Turbo Charged 2001 M3, running 550whp.... The second with a superchagred 2003 M3 SMG running 370whp.... Guess what, the SMG systems has issues shifting... Something with the computer control system. It may be either electrical or mechanical, or maybe both... But I'll stick to my manual any day...

 

I must have a factory freak tranny becuase I have 182,000 miles on it. That's right, ORIGINAL stock tranny. Still runnin strong with the drop resistor mod on a switch since about 173,000.

Since this thread was gettin a little OT I figured I'd throw this in the mix.

 

I just saw a new M3 on Car & Driver's Top 10 new cars of the year, and it had the 400 hp V8. It was awesome. I want one sooooooooooooooo bad!

 

That's still a concept...will not be out till 2005/6. The M3 produced now does not have a 400 hp V8.

 

They said it was an 04 model.
Regardless, it was sweet!

 

You were smoking up or something

3.2L 333hp inline-6







Eric

 

ha ha. I don't do that, but whatever.
Even if it was a concept, they said it was 400hp and it was gorgeous.

 

Yeah your absolutely right... The M3 will get the M5 V8 Power-plant... So yeah it will be 400hp V8, with a new body-design... Thats why the current M5 has a
V10 powr plant, pushing 500+hp.. They are to release these car late 2004 to early 2005...