Some guys just cant get over the fact that Maxima's are slow Granny Mobiles and will never be anything else. The Maxima people on here making smart-a** comments are the type who go to pep boys to buy performance parts.

 

"F-bodies have flaws and their primary pro is performance. The cons outweighed the pros so heavily that it got the damn model killed off due to sluggish sales"..
Well alot of grandma's need something to drive, so that is why I think Nissan sells Maxima's so well.

 

I was wondering why this thread got so long.......

 

The reason that f-body sale where down is b/c GM didnt market it not b.c it wasnt reliable

 

exactly, how many commercials were f-bodies in starting at the remodeling (98) till its departure? i think it was like 4, and they were rarely played. 3 of these were for the ta. the problem is, what is keeping the mustang alive is the v6 sales, not the gt sales. By not advertising gm lost all of their sales with the v6 models.

by the general concensous the mustang was just as outdated and in need of refinement as the f-body but gm simply didn't apply the main rule of marketing, advertise, advertise, advertise. Has anyone else noticed the huge boost in advertising for gm products? at least they learned from their mistakes and hopefully the camaro will return and possibly even the ta.

 

You dumb **** WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PERFORMANCE!!!! You just made my entire point for you me you *** hat! And YES timeslips are what matters when we are talking about straight line performance..dumb ****s

 

man, i really missed out for not coming on here for a day.........and for all yall ls1 guys, for the ones mainly who didnt read back, ill say it again, i was just fuc*in around last night, and if you read back to my first post.......ive only been drivin a maxima for like 4 months, and i think its a fun car to drive for being a 4 door
but to the real concern here, yes american muscle will always win, well 99% of the time, in highest outputs and fastest quarter miles. i mean, i grew up around those cars, the only reason i dont have one is because i would probaly kill myself in one.

i also think its funny 1gen how you could actually take me that serious, come on dude, you said it yourself, your 18, so act like an adult and stop whining over the same thing.

anyways.........im happy with my grocery getter, and i think its pretty quick, it gets me from point a to b, and sometimes c, and it is pretty hard to compare a v-8 sports car to a 4 door family car...........whatever, i stoped caring

 

do me a personal favor and start spelling your curses like this:

****, azz, ***, and so on, it makes your posts a lot easier to read.

the f body died because of the marketing wizzes at gm. of course they said they couldnt sell the camaro but somehow those azz hats are going to sell the ssr pickup, that looks like ****, is going to be impossible to market, and despite have the corvette engine (ls6?) is slower than 95% of the maximas on this forum.

everyone be nice

 

It's not you it's the guys on this forum that believe that they can beat everything out there and as far as me taking all this so seriously I am passionate about Fbods some people never understand what it is to be passionate about something and truely give a ****. You're cool with me as far as I'm concerned you're cool, the last paragraph shows your maturity, these people that will argue for hours about their 4 door maxima being better performance wise is what gets all us LS1 guys flocking to your website to stand up for ourselves

 

yea...........but come one 1gen, you got to admit that little $3000 in sticker comment was just below the belt, thats just plain mean, cause all that sticker non sense is a honda thing, i hate stickers, unless its a WCC.
and for granitemonkey, the pep boys comment is deffintly below the belt as well, that just wasnt cool either, cause the majority of us are of the caucasion race i do believe, and i know yall are too.
and for the guy that lives in joneboro, you car sounds bad dude, i want to see it, that thing has got to sound sick.

 

Just to clear this up the SSR (***mobile) uses the 5.3 truck engine. 290 hp. It's no LS6.

 

ahahahahaha fukking BOSS when will you ever stop stalking my posts!? Get a life dude.

Marketing did play a big role in the F-bodies demise but you guys gotta realize that the day to day liveability of the Mustang is much better than an F-body. For the most part true performance enthusiasts are gonna go for the Fbody bc its the cheapest to make fast, but for everyone else that just wants a cheap 2 door the Mustang is MUCH easier to live with.

Dude do you not even know what you typed, you said the fbody is a better car period. Of course in regards to performance the fbody is better i already said that ****** moron! I said there are other factors to what car is better to different people. I wanted a trunk I could use and the ability to carry more than 1 passenger, plus lower insurance so the Maxima was better for me. You cant go around saying the Fbody is the best car out there period because its not.

"Timeslips matter in regards to straightline"

[sarcasm]OH REALLY!? DIDNT KNOW THAT!![/sarcasm]

You really didnt get the point...youre as thickheaded as BOSS is. Except you guys are on the opposite sides, one thinks domestics are always pieces of **** and the other thinks the fbody is gods chariot.

Dude 1stgencamaro...I'm pretty much on your side of this. I like Fbodies, I have several friends with them and they each have 2 or more in their households. My best friend is one of these Fbody *****...always dreamed of owning a 3rd gen and he is currently saving up for an LS1. I'm just telling you to calm down with the Maxima hating and Camaro propaganda...we all had different priorities when looking for a car.

 

Shouldn't this thread be in the worthless crap forum?

 

Dude you're the one going below the belt.

1. What is with Maxima.org and the auto-Honda hate? There are as many Maxima ricers as there are Honda ricers...percentage wise that is.

2. What does you being White have to do with anything???

 

yes it should be if you want my honest opinon, but oh well

 

Probably, but it's fun

 

1- i dont consider our cars to be rice, cause when we do stuff to our car it does a little bit more than just make a lot of noise, it actually goes a little faster unlike hondas and acuras, rice, but whatever.

2- i wasnt tryin to be racist alright, i just didnt feel like typing out every race but hispanic, cause percentage wise that is the majority of people who shop there, so lay off

so dude, i wasnt goin below the belt and dont insult your self by saying your a ricer when your really not, leave that up to the 4 banger world

 

1. There are PLENTY of Hondas that would put many of our Maximas to shame, for cheaper too. Making a car that usually runs 17s a 14 or 13 second car gets more respect from me than getting a Maxima that runs 15s into the 14s.

2. I get your point but that is still kinda offensive, btw I'm not even hispanic.

How many Maxima owners are there defending the altezzas they bought? How many of us have blue bulbs in their signals? I mean, I've had people ask me why I have orange bulbs in my signals/corner lamps as opposed to blue or hyperwhite lol. There are plenty of ricers on this board...they just wont admit it.

 

hehehehehe, I ment to post this in a different thread oh well

 

im not sayin your hispanic, im jst sayin that is who shops at pep boys..........i just didnt like it how that dude said we got our performance parts from pep boys, thats all

and i just dont see a maxima as a ricer unless the person really turns it into one like you said

 

LOL yeah I know you werent saying I'm hispanic...I was just saying that I'm not hispanic but i could see that someone could take offense to it.

You are free to have your beliefs..but imo there are plenty of maxima ricers out there.

 

Listen 97SEMAX, don't even argue with an airhead like ludacris. He is a dork with nothing better to do. On top of that, he thinks he's always right, when in fact he has no clue about the automotive world, which he proved on numerous occasions. He constantly argues, while personally attacking others who know considerably more about the topic at hand. People like him need to really "lay off" as you put it, since they're not even worth spitting upon.

 

omg, this has turned into one of those stupid threads where all the assholes on this site assemble and bitch eachother out

its funny that these are also all the same people who always bitch at noobs for asking relevant questions even if they are ones that have been asked a gagillion times

 

I love popping into the 4th gen forum to read all the bull****. It's great for boredom.
Sooooo true.
Christ, just stop posting.

I am currently about to order a 331 stroker kit for my 68 Mustang, I am easily estimating 450whp before ignition and fuel tuning. With slicks, I am aiming for low 11's, possiably high 10's.

Personally I'm glad the F-Body guys came along, but honestly it is probably not worth your time to argue with some of these guys. In the end they are driving a FWD V6 Family Sedan, a nice one with enough power to keep most people happy, but still a family sedan. I'm happy with my maxima, but it still leaves much to be longing for.


JDM4LIFE- Glad your enjoying the car, besides you still have the 3rd gen

 

"Hey, all you guys talking about american v8's: Large displacement will always put you down the path to big power/torque. However, the M3 gets 333hp with only 3.3 liters. Imagine what they could do with 5.7ltrs. I can almost guarantee that they would have higher #'s than the vette. Doing more with less is always a greater accomplishment than just doing more."

You say that argument, but your argument really doesn't work in the real world, because you assume that Americans can't make any more power. What would BMW do with 5.7l? Make 700hp? They'd never be able to sell it.. insurance, laws, standards, etc wouldn't allow it.. this is not practical for a non exotic. The ls1 isn't so many ci because americans can't get hp/l. Its for the powerband. We have cars right now on stock shortblocks breaking the 100hp/l with aftermarket cam and heads. GM even makes a cam and heads with plenty enough umph to push it to 500 horsies or so at the flywheel without a problem. Granted they usually have a rough idle, they probably still get better gas milage than a stock m3 Almost every heads/cam ls1 m6 car gets above 20mpg on the highway unless running stock tuning.. 500+ flywheel horses or not. Hp/L is not a valid argument in this situation, because its obvious even Americans could do more. But who would they sell it to? Certainly not the current 50k and under market. The ls6 is just an ls1 with a slightly better heads/cam setup.. Still incredibly puny by performance standards. Americans care about torque, and the area under the curve. Otherwise why was the ls2 be raised to 6.0l, when the ls6 easily made 405hp.. Answer is easy, ls2 has more area under the curve than the prevoius z06 engine You can say the ricer excuse BMW can do yadda yadda all day long. The fact still remains BMW doesn't make a 5.7l, and if they did.. and it was for a street car use.. I ASSURE you it wouldn't be near the hp/l of an m3, because otherwise it wouldn't be practical. It would more than likely stay in the 300-400 horsepower realm, but have a much more useable powerband and better lowend.

BTW: There are inherent losses that come with having 8 cylinders instead of 6. Another reason why it takes a lil bit more radical v8 to make 100hp/l than a i6, and a lil more umph in a i6 to make it than a i4 cyl. Any BMW motor would suffer these losses as well. Albeit small, but noticable.. Either way, with such a huge displacement gap between 5.7l and 3.xl ... There is no way in hell the BMW engine can ever compete with a vette or even a white trash mullet camaro in any form of acceleration money being equal.

Josh

 

First I personally do not equate BMW with the "rice" terminology but yes some individuals have unfortunately "riced" out their bims.

And while BMW does not plan on having a 5,7l in the immediate future the upcoming E60 ///M5 will have a 5,0l V-10 making approx. 500hp. Note that the engine has two more cylinders than the ls*.

There is however talk of a 5,5l M6 with 550hp but it may just end up being the 5,0l with 500bhp. Either way my point is that BMW engineers design some of the most incredible engines on this planet and I personally hold them equal to if not better than Ferrari's engineers.

I will agree with you though that money being equal the 'vette etc. will outpower and outperform the ///M3. However you must also realize that the M3 is a family sedan turned into a sports car! If BMW chose to develop a ground-up race car then I could only imagine the results! Though the M3 CSL is way more money the performance is absolutely amazing for a sedan (volume not doors).

Just my $0.02...
Dustin

 

"The guy with the cammed fbody: i feel sorry for you man. i had to help my friend with his 5.0 change out the cam, and i hated that. in fact, i hate working on domestics, cant get it straight whether to go with standard or metric, even on the same part. the engine bay is even worse on Fbodies for space. changing the spark plugs is a damned quest for the Holy Grail or something. "

Changing spark plugs in my ls1 is about 20 minutes, I'm thinking maybe your thinking of an LT1?? LS1s have a coil per cylinder, and the wire is only like a foot long tops. As far as the cam.. probably about a 4-6 hour job for most. The labor is far worse than the $300 cams go for all the time However, there are plenty of folks who've never touched a car who did their own cam swap.. It is not very hard.

129mph for $2500 is impressive. But I don't believe it, unless you got half your **** for free or used and have access to a dyno for free.. More than likely your forgetting to add in a few parts. You can't make an argument out of your discounts, because if you did then you are arguing with an unfair advantage. You've got to figure dyno tuning alone would be several several hundreds, assuming you can use the stock pcm. Clutch, injectors, bigger turbo, downpipe, exhaust, intake, slicks, bigger intercooler, better turbo manifold, blow off valves, cams, dyno tuning ($500-$1000?), etc. I just don't see it happening unless you got several parts for almost nothing. No matter how much you spent 129 is hauling.

However, I can't think of any off the top of my head who run 129mph for under $2500 without some form of induction. Being that f-bodies don't come with induction tho, even the cheapest turbo kit is in the $3500 range, unless you build it yourself even then I imagine it'll be close.. Cablebandit (lives in the same city as me), put his forged pistons in himself and piece together his own turbo kit that made 600 to the rear for next to nothing. However, this is not the norm and can't be used for an argument...

Rob Raymer went 136mph with his own built turbo kit, with stock engine other than $140 valvesprings, and a decent clutch. Stock rear, stock everything else. But he has his own dyno to tune with, and alcohol injection w/ race gas. He also babied the crap out of it off the line, it definately had 140mph in it stock bottomend with a rearend.

I don't discredit your achievements at all with these facts,, in fact I'm impressed. It can be done with an LS1 I'm sure with some very budget-wise spending with some weight reduction, as it has 17x (obvoius exaggeration) the displacement. Cartek has went 130.6mph all motor on a stock shortblock. However, I'm not sure what they charge for their headers/heads/cam package (cartek x-package) This was on a vette, however. It also dynod 500rwhp (like 101-102hp/l?) I don't what they charge for just parts? For an all motor setup they really haul though.. 2 or 3 guys on there with 128-130mph traps. This is a more realistic comparison as anybody can get this kit, and not piece it together from $25 junkyard parts.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=129mph

Just a little info on the package.

BTW: I agree with you 100% on liking all cars. I just hate the ****ing ricers who are 16, and because they watched fast and furious they think v8's suck. Then they talk about how unreliable they are, how bad they handle and say all the stereotypical stuff, meanwhile, never having even seen one up close or ridden in one or have any clue what they are talking about. And they live in the damn country that made the vehicle.

Our forte is E.T.'s, not MPH. Running 11's in an ls1 is as easy as boltons in an ls1. Most automatics do it with just headers, and a decent stall convertor on BFG drags or ET streets. Several stock motor'd cars except for the cam and boltons have ran 10's. To each his own, I suppose. I like all cars, but will not neglect to stand up for mine as well if inaccurate data exists.

Peace,
Josh

P.S. Excuse my spelling and grammar, its 5:21am!!!

 

I do not equate BMW with rice either. But some of the excuses here are. I was just simply stating that the F-body is not the domestic trash as stated earlier in the thread. That they actually can demolish a bmw, and can do it dollar for dollar. I'm aware they are in a different class, and I rightfully respect the hell out of the M3. But the v8 has its niche in the market.

As exciting as the v10 is, ls1 could easily make 500hp that the new v10 exotic engine makes though, and it probably comes in a 100,000 car. For reasons mentioned above American car manufacturers keeps these large engines so dang untuned. The ls1 easily has the capability to make as much power as that 5.0l v10 with a stock non-lopey idle. Granted it has a .7l advantage, no matter how cheap an american v8 is, is still has the ability to perform with other engines rather cheap. Thats what the niche is of domestic v8 engines in our society. Low tuned, good powerband engines that can easily gain 100-150hp with headers/headwork and a decent cam in order to compete with exotics. These are the true tuner cars Not a honda that gains 2hp off of a header. BMW releases well tuned engines with the stuff already done, therefor there isn't as much gain from mods.. I mean, its very unlikely you'll see the 5.0 v10 gain 100hp from header/cam swap, etc. Its already running badass manifolds likely, with a pretty nice sized cams and good flowing heads. This doesn't discredit Chevrolet, because there is no purpose to making their LS1 500hp? 350 was at the time perfect for its class. Not only that, but it actuallly flips me on the favoring side of the LS1. Who can complain with a reliable 500hp engine with only about $4k in modification. The setup only peaks at 5950 as you can see by the dyno graph in the link. I shift my cam at 6700rpm daily without trouble. Its likely the engine from that bimmer will cost well over 10k, and the car itself 80k-100k. But I'm just making logical guesses as to cost.

Formula to stock idling, emissions passing, quiet 500hp LS1 =

Mti Stealth I Cam ($400)
Mti Stage II LS6 Heads ($2k)
FLP Headers w/ y pipe w/ cats (~$1000?)
Quiet catback (magnaflow, etc) - ($400)

A similar setup except with cheaper headers, and a stock catback made 400rwhp through a stalled automatic (good bit over 20% drivetrain loss). Through a quiet performance catback he'd likely make 415rwhp, as he made 422.7rwhp through a cutout (no muffler, pretty well acknowledged as 3-5rwhp over a well flowing catback)

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ti+stealth+cam

Keep in mind that a stall convertor in an automatic is like at least 22% drivetrain loss minimum. His car ran 11.20 @ 121.47

All that being said, it does take some ***** to stick 500hp in a family sedan, and I won't argue one bit with it being worth the cash that they ask for it. More or less I just want to stand up for our engine in regards to the guy saying BMW can get more out of their engine. So can Chevrolet, but its not practical Now, on their ls1 based race car effort (c5r), they make some serious power.. as it is more the time and place.

Peace,
Josh

 

JDM4life:

Just wanted to tell you enjoy the Camaro. I own'd a 94 Z28 also back in high school. I used to bracket race it at LACR. I used to run consistant 13.50's & the car was basically stock all I did to it was a K&N panel filter & a Single outlet Borla muffler. The car was really really fast for basically being stock. I could just image how fast that car would have been in the 1/4 mile with like a 50 shot of nitrous. All I have to say is make sure to be extra careful in the snow, it will come around on you even on dry pavement!!! Here's one thing I think you should know, Let's say you end up doing a burn out or something & the traction control get's activated here's what you need to do to reset it. If you don't the car will feel like it's a snail as far as it's usual power output.

First stop & turn off your car.
Take the key's out of the ignition.
You need to open the door to break the circuit. If you notice your radio & windows still work with the key out of the ignition. So this is the reason to open your door. At that's it!!! Your traction control has been deactivated.

Another thing to check out is if the car was originally sold with Z rated tires. If it was then you more then likely don't have a governor on the car. I remember my friend had a 94 Z28 but his wasn't sold with Z rated tires. I told him that I just pegged the speedo needle. The speedo's read 150mph but I was pegged about 10mph past that. He was like BS mine will only go 125 before it cuts out. So that day we ditched for lunch & I took him out to this wide open road & sure enough I pegged the needle again. He couldn't beleive it. That's when he talked to his uncle who works at our local chevy dealership & he told him about the Z rated tire thing. He also said that some of demo car's didn't have the limiter & were actually faster to influence buyer's more.

I read a few post back & somebody was saying that stock camaro's don't run 12's but I have to disagree. The stock SS camaro is a 12 second factory street car & I'm sure that 1 or more people out there special ordered there six speeds with a different rear end gear ratio... Just thought I toss that out there........ Not to mention that there are Pontiac Firehawks out there too that are pretty damn quick.....

 

i miss my '89 Firebird and all the fun in the rain/snow

Ant

 

distortion... thank you for the lesson. That sounds like a reasonable theory... in how the domestic big displacement "performance" engines are quite detuned from the factory. Using mild cams, restrictive log manifolds, weak intake systems, etc. With a big engine you need to more air to breath right, and the stock systems are pretty inhibitive in that respect.
but now the small displacment FORCED INDUCTION tuner market also comes mediocorly tuned from the factory as well. The EVOs and the WRXs can also gain a lot from just increasing the boost and opening up flow. I guess thats their answer to the N/A big displacment engines...

Now the big boys should follow suit and boost their big V8s.... from the factory because I know alot of people have been doing that in the aftermarket scene. Kudos to AMG and SVT and whoever else is doing it

 

And people like BOSS... what a disgrace to the maxima community... What ever happened to having an open mind and being a CAR enthuiast... Give respect where respect is due, even if you personally dont LIKE it. stupid troll

 

congrats on the purchase of a real sports car. i love reading all these responses to this thread. that lt1 can be made into a bad car. glad you got a f-bod and not a slowstang. you start of a whole second faster and with a nicer car.

whoever said they couldn't drive a v8 because all there import friends would laught need to wake up. im pretty sure they would stfu when you smoke the little fart civics like they werent moving. and please stop calling a civic a sports car. it is so far from it i cant even describe. by diesel truck outran 5 civics at the track. that is sadd.

and for the moron that said gm hasnt change technology wise. most of their smaller cars have smaller, faster and more fuel efficient motors now. and incase your not up to date in the last few years. ever heard of a ls1. one of the best high performance engines producing awsome power and great gas mileage.

 

I used to own an F body. 87 Iroc Z. Had it in highschool. It was a blast, and a definite head-turner. Then it just wasn't practical anymore so I sold it and got the max. Have fun though. Nothin' beats the feeling of 8 cylinders under your foot...pushrods or not.
Pic:

 

nothing beats the feeling of TORQUE... not just the V8... which the smaller displacement engines usually lack.

 

Aight. I told myself I wouldn't get involved in this stupid thread, but I can't help it anymore. Here's my take.

We all buy what we want to buy!!!! Maximas and American Muscles cars each have different appeals. You CAN'T compare opinions and decide who is right. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CALLED OPINIONS/PREFERENCES. Each person has their own. Why can't we just accept the fact that EVERY car has its cons and its pros? And the people who have a certain car have that car because they feel the pros outweigh the cons. SIMPLE AS THAT. Who cares if they get a worse HP/L ratio. If they don't mind or don't give a rats a$$, what's the problem. Let them be happy. There is an old saying that can be applied here.... WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT.

Ok. I'm done.

 

maxxaddict, i couldnt have said it any better and i totally agree with you, another good thing about this thread that everyone else is looking over is that everybody in this forum and this thread all love to mod cars, and like i said before i give respect to almost any car that is modded. i think that all car enthusiasts should get along..........but theres nothing wrong with talkin shi* every so often either, cause i think thats just fun

 

I couldn't agree with you more about the forced induction from the factory Thats why the SVT engine makes so much power. Fortunately for us the LS1 responds well to mods, otherwise we'd have no chance in hell in running with the Cobra. Luckily, it takes more power in the Cobra to run the same number. Due to IRS, weight, etc. All of which can be dealt with, of course (solid rear swap, weight reduction). Fortunately with some engine modifications a LS1 can still make 450rwhp n/a pretty easily, and still run with most 450-500rwhp Cobras pretty easily.

I agree with the imports using forced induction to try and close the gap, and this does make them more of a tuner car. However, of course you can look at it like.. v8s would still gain more from forced induction due too large displacement.. again making it a true tuner car

None the less.. you can make both cars run the number for pretty cheap.. Different strokes for different folks.. But either way, the LS1 isn't junk.. Nor is the 2003 cobra motor. And even the people who claimed they were have calmed down and given in to the truth. So there is no real argument here anymore. To each his own, and all of them can perform.

In fact, if I had to choose a new vehicle.. It'd probably be the 2003 cobra, due to not having to touch the bottomend til north of 700-800rwhp *wink*

Josh

 

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