VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Is there any reason to go with a partial coilover system (e.g. Ground Controls) besides ride-heigh adjustability? I'm about to get springs and Illuminas and I just wanted to hear something about coilovers. Thanks for any input.

Tjd135

coilover are very bad.. If u want to lower u car get good shock with good springs.. Coilovers you will feel every little bump in ur car.. (to break it down for you) DONT GET COILOVERS UNLESS U WANT TO BE CHEAP WITH LOWERING YOUR CAR.

liqidvenom

iTrader: (6)

i dont understand your logic. how is spending more then springs being a cheap way to lower your car? when my car was driving, my ground controls are fine. it handles great, lets me adjust them at will. iirc ground controls are linear spring while lowering springs are progressive and when it comes to all out handleing linear is the way to go. i'm not gonna lie to you and say its a stock type ride, but then again its gonna handle better then stock. people just spew garbage about stuff they dont know and that really bothers me cause i have gc's and i love them.

MrDicks95SE

iTrader: (23)

its nice to have coilovers but if you want the quality of real ones, just get the entire package like the JICs or Tein Basics. yeah they are expensive and all but its well worth it. my friend had GCs and the ride was pretty harsh cuz he had it freakin slammed on stock shocks which was odd. (blown after a couple months.) if you are on a budget, then the next best thing for adjustabilty are the GCs. match it with the illuminas or koni yellows and you should be fine. suspension is very important for a car so my logic would say to go with a quality company and true coilover system. but thats just me.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

So would Illuminas + GC be significantly better handling than Illuminas + a 1.5" or so lowering spring? From what I understand, the best combination of handling and ride comfort is with a ~1.5" lowering spring. I'm just curious what the real benefit of coilovers is.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Coilovers are good to raise your car up for the winter months, snow, and slam it down in the summer months...Another benifit is that youll have complete adjustablitly of height so youll have an even riding vehicle if you spend some time on it...another benifit is if you get a true coilover setup, you wont be hitting off the bumpstops all the time..

A ghetto setup, Ground Control, will ride like cra* depending on your tolerablitly to ride comfort. A "true" coilover setup like JIC, Cattman, Tein Coilovers, are going to ride alot better and are going to have adjustablitlies for ride comfort...The JIC's are 15 way adjustable but are also over $1600...thats the top dog in suspension but who needs it unless youll be on the track or want that adjustablity...Cattmans run about $1400 and are one setting

-matt

ohannon7

iTrader: (5)

coilovers weigh alot less than springs as well if your into that. You dont HAVE to slam your car w/ coilovers you can have it set at an inch.5 if you want, its just nice to be able to lift/raise your car as you want depending on what you use your car for. W/ springs your stuck at that height.......

nostrixoxide

A true coil-over systems JIC, K&W etc. (not a slide over design) are absolutely the best suspension set up's that money can buy. The only problem with using a coil-over set up is most people do not realize that it is an absolute must to have the suspension set up professionally to make sure that each corner of the vehicle is handling a specific amount of weight. If you do not have the suspension properly balanced you will actually de-engineer the way the suspension is designed to handle weight transfer & load handling You cannot achieve this proper balance by simply taking measurements from the ground to the fender well, or the top of the tire to the bottom of the fender. You must weigh each corner of the vehicle independantly to make sure each coil-over is able to handle a certain amount of weight. It is so precise that you even need to take into account the weight of the driver. To properly setup a coil-over suspension can take several hours & possibly even an entire day & this is when a professional with all the proper tools & gauges takes on the task for you.
I have owned several set's of many different brands of coil-over kit's & even though you initally feel that the suspension is handling better then the stock setup you have no idea just how wrong you are. To truely get the most out of a coil-over set up I highly recommend having it set up to handle the vehicles weight distribution properly. Then you will see where the extra money went when you desided to purchase high dollar suspension components.

MrDicks95SE

iTrader: (23)

i couldnt have said it better...

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I once saw an article in a mag in which they did exactly what you are describing. They spent tons of time adjusting the collars using precision scales under each wheel. I understand how this sets a good baseline but as soon as you hit a bump I bet the scales would be off several pounds if you put the car back in them. Another thing to account for is amount of fuel. Thats a big difference. IMO JIC is the only coilover worth considering. Throughout most of the aftermarket suspension area, JIC is clearly superior. As for the GC's, I think they are ****. Not because the product is not quality but because the design is flawed. The collar/slide over design leaves to much room for slop. I think there are only two good routes to take with suspension. Good adjustable strut + moderately lowering spring or JIC's. Anyone have the lower level of the JIC's? Are they still very good? BTW, I have always felt that GC's were the cheap way to get the slammed look.

Oblongshapes

iTrader: (1)

man's a genius
love the handling in my GC's, its not that bumpy..... I dont know how much that bothers you

Dave B

Here's my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree. The only coilovers worth a damn are the higher priced coilovers you get from JIC or Tein. You truely get what you pay for. GC/APC/Weapon R coilvers are sleeve-style coilovers that slide over OEM-style struts and use many "uniform" parts so that the parts can be used on other coilover sets for different cars. This uniformity of parts typically gives you bad ride quality because nothing is really designed for the weight charactieristics of your car. Sleeve-style coilovers are good for one thing and one thing only, car shows. Everything else like performance, ride, and handling are degraded. Sleeve coilover setups aren't well designed simply because many of the parts aren't in connection to the strut as a true coilover setup would be. When you jack the car up, the springs actually will fall out of their seats if you're not careful. Maybe it's me, but I don't like the idea of having a small spring like this being able to pop out when I'm working on my car. Show up to a road race event on GCs and you'd get laughed off the course for showing up with such suspension garbage. Sleeve style coilovers do not have enough travel because the springs are so short and most people tend to drop the car 1.5+". The lack of travel causes you to hit the bumpstops which can cause a momentary loss of control when you hit a 1"+ bump. Many guys say their not hitting/riding on their bumpstops with sleeve coilovers or Sprint springs. I wholeheartedly disagree because even on my 1.6" H&R drop with 70% cut bumpstops, I only have about 1.3" of upwards travel before contacting the bumpstop. It's quite obvious if your suspension is lower, you'll be that much closer to the bumpstop. I think the reason these guys say their not hitting/riding on the bumpstops is because they've gotten use to the way their car behaves and they just don't know any better. Put them in my car (H&Rs, Konis, SFCs I/II) flying over a bumpy surface in a tight turn and they'll see how smooth the ride is and how the chassis isn't upset by the road surface. Real coilovers have shortened strut housings which mean that even with a dramatic drop you don't loose much wheel travel at all. This means a low stance and great handling to boot.

After 5 years of modifying my Maxima, I've learned one thing: You get what you pay for.

If you want a low, adjustable stance, decent ride, and great handling then save your money and buy a set of real coilovers. If you want a decent drop (1.5-1.6"), great handling and a good ride get Eibachs or H&Rs plus some qualityt adjustable struts (very important). Stock or non-abjustable struts just don't cut it if you want the best handling and ride.


Dave

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Thanks very much for the input, everyone! I've learned a lot about coilovers.

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my car or just about anything, and I can't afford JICs. I think Illuminas and Tein High-Techs are my best bet. Time to go spend money.

Dave B

Tein High-Techs? Are those the new "luxury"-based springs from Tein? Keep us posted on how they ride and what kind of drop they offer.

Dave

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

Yes they are. I installed them on my Maxima last week. As far as ride quality, they are very similar to my previous Sprint springs. While the car rides down smooth roads they seem to be a little smoother than the Sprints. In fact I believe the fronts have one less coil, providing more travel before the bumpstop. Anyways once you hit even a small bump in the road, it feels as tight and harsh as my Sprints. I personally love it, but I also think it has something to do with my AGX shocks/struts. One thing I definitely noticed is less stability at high speeds. I miss the low COG of Spring springs, which I believe is a main factor at high speeds. Anyways have you ever seen how uncut Sprints look like in the rear? Tein H-Techs look like that in the rear and front - about a 3 (small) finger gap. Similar to H&Rs. Anyways I'm waiting on a UDP problem to really test out their handling abilities, I'll make a post for them then.
-Cyrus

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

People need to realize this

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Yep.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=309338
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=300338

The single biggest reason I'm going with these springs is I don't want a bigger front wheel gap than rear (common with almost any aftermarket spring on a 5-speed Maxima). The High-Tech's drop is 1.6 front, 1.2 rear.

liqidvenom

iTrader: (6)

ok i dont want to chime in on this much longer but here are some things people dont seem to understand about gc's ( and i speak only of these due to the fact that its the set that i own).
1)if u drop any car to the ground its not gonna ride very smooth. also if ur car is that dropped you shouldn't be flying around bumpy road ans such due to the possiblity of hitting parts of your undercarriage(sp) on objects on the street.
Note: i dont have my car dropped with my gc's and thats for two reasons. my b-pipe hangs now about 1.5-2" of the gound and i didnt want the pipe hitting the ground. also i work n live in areas that have very bumpy and speed bump filled areas.

2) how can you compare 300-400 coilovers to 1500 coilovers? for the price of gc'si feel and this is just my opinoin(sp) its the best set up when it comes to people who enjoy handleing and comfort, and thats only if you dont "slam the car to the ground since i have no idea how that feels cause i've never done it.

3) the apperent stiffness that many people who dont own gc's complain about is the fact that the springs are stiffer then many other lowering srings and thats y i chose them. i've been in other maxes that have lowering springs and its not always a smooth ride in those cars.

4) my but isnt yours so i have no idea how smooth you want your ride. my car is way smoother then my other friends full coilover cars. but i will note if i go flying over speed bumps, potholes, human beings, deer or wat not then your defintly gonna feel wat ever u hit. ( but then again i always enjoy seeing girls breast bounce up and down if i hit a patch of bad road unexpectedly.)

i have never gotten any bad comments about my setup and its very important that wat ever setup u go with that its more important to go with a great shock/strut.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

XeroX

iTrader: (13)

I have GCs and i dont hit my bumpstops, at least that i know of...i do have the tension at 2 on the front. for the AGX and i member hitting a lil hill at a 100 and i did get scared...very unpredictable, maybe i hit the bumpstops..? but either way its probly cause i have the settings to low...need to raise it to 3 or 4... less bouncy that way..

As for the Gcs, they are great, and if you compare them to sprint springs for example since they have a 2 inch drop, i dont understand how u can say that you hit bumpstops so much with GCs but not with Sprints, or any other lowering spring that is 2 inches...My car isnt even slammed 2 inches and i dont think i hit bumpstops or come close to them for that matter.


IMHO GCs are good if u wana drop your car and improve handling a lil bit, if your looking for comfort, DONT LOWER YOUR CAR!

lowering your car on anything is gona make it uncomfortable, i dont care what you use to drop it with...

if you wana SLAM the ride and put it on the ground i would sujest getting it bagged or get the JICs, other than that there is no real reason to spend so much on suspension, not all of us Auto cross, and not all of us need the top notch handling... GCs are good enough and do the job for everyday driving, as well as looks...

Dave B

Too bad you can't ride in my car because I think you'd be blown away by the ride. My Maxima on H&Rs, Koni's, 17s with 225/50s, and WSP Stage I/II SFCs rides amazing on all surfaces except for big bumps or potholes (2"+). My car is actually quite a bit smother riding than my wife's bonestock 98 Legacy GT wagon on stock 205/55R16s. Not until I hit a huge bump does the Legacy GT soak up the bump better. It took me about 3.5 years to find the best ride. I've had 3 different types of struts and three different types of springs. I've realized it takes quality adjustable struts, quality springs (H&R/Eibach), and most importantly subframe connectors, to get the best handling and ride possible. I've got my struts set at 80% firmness right now and the car rides actually like my coworkers BMW 330 coupe with the sport package.


Dave

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Little digression here:

SFCs have been on my list since day one. Dave, do you get them in the mail from Warpspeed and then just have a shop weld them on? How much did it run you total? Also, how low do the SFCs hang down? They look very flat on one photo on your website, which is good. Can you see them when looking at your car from, say 20 feet back? Thanks.

I want my Maxima to ride as well as a BMW. That's the goal.

97MaxGurl

iTrader: (17)

How much of a drop are you looking for? I came to realize that Tein isn't too accurate when listing their drop spec with their S-Tech springs. They list 2" drop but after doing several installs at our shop, it's about a 1.75"-1.8" drop realistically.

Look at the huge wheelgap we have as stock. With an estimated 1.6/1.2 f/r drop rate, lowering Max with Tein H-Tech is like not lowering... you won't be able to tell much difference.

If you're looking for 'stock-ride'-like comfort and reduced wheelgap.. I'd go with H&R springs and Illuminas (or KYB AGX).

I'm on my 5th suspension setup as we speak (suspension fetish) But Dave B is right on the money with his explaination of coilovers so there's no need for me to repeat.

TEIN does have Basic coilover system coming out next month, adjustible height w/ non-adjustible dampening. Adjusting the height is practical, listed at $890 but priced under $800 as a complete package. It's worth while to take a look at.

Ange

www.RedlineMax.com

ohannon7

iTrader: (5)

Mmmmmmmmm, SFC's, me want badley

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Can anyone tell me WHY sub frame connectors make for a better suspension? I can guess that the body does not flex nearly as much... but how would that make a smoother ride? It wouldnt right? It would make for performance upgrades similar to a RSB.. A greater ability to take corners and a greater amount of oversteer I would imagine. Lower center of gravity but not by much. Someone please fill me in on any other details- thanx

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I just learned this yesterday so I'm not trying to shoot you down but here it goes. I was at a Saab performance driving school this weekend and yesterday asked how they made the suspension so precise and yet so luxurious. Its a perfect blend if you ever riden in a 9-5 Aero. Anyway, they answered that they made the chassis as stiff as possible. They said the chassis flexes about 1/10th of what most cars do. This apparently allowed the engineers to create a suspension that was very supple because it doesn't have to make up for the chassis' short commings. So make your chassis extremely rigid with strut bars, tie bars, SFC's and your suspension doesn't have to be much stiffer than stock to create an amazing handling machine. My next mods will be chassis stiffening because of this information I learned. Then my quest for power will continue when I have put every chassis mod available on my car. Anybody ever use that foam to put in the frame rails? Apparently its illegal for auto-xing but I really want it to make the chassis a rock and the suspension jello.

Nismotic

iTrader: (25)

My first setup was GC's w/tok blues and they were the most uncomfortable ride known to anyone. The handling was spectacular, but it was just too harsh for me.


Many like coilovers for the ability to also raise and lower height at any time (winter, snow, etc), but i have found it a hassle and almost never raised/lowered it.


if you want coilovers, dont go cheap.

G20Flyer

U smokin a fattie? JIC coilovers retail for like $1600.

Coilovers being a FULL system are really the way to go as they are vavled correctly for the spring rates...etc..etc.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Thats good info- thanks. I guess the rear strut brace might not be a worthless mod although the under-carriage bracings would be alot better...

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

Sorry Ange but I beg to differ. I've had the H-Techs on my car for about a week now, so they have settled fully. They raised my car about .5" in the front and 0" in the rear, coming from Sprints. Therefore I can honestly say they are about a 1.5" drop all around. Specifically, I could not tell you. But I did park next to charcoal95gxe's stock-height Maxima today, and I was noticeably higher. It was easily over an inch, both front and back. They're good springs, but with AGXs all I feel are bumps regardless.
-Cyrus

Dave B

Bingo The stiffer the chassis, the better the ride. With a stiff chassis, the suspension is able to do it's job a lot better. Go ride in a C4 Vette then a C5 Vette. You'll quickly notice how abusive the C4 suspension is in comparsion to the C5 suspension. The C4 chassis is very flimsy therefore GM had to make the suspension very stiff in order to make the car handle. The C5 on the otherhand has a softer suspension becuase of it's superrigid chassis and the C5 actually handles better.

With the SFCs the biggest thing I noticed handling wise was how much more composed the car is in turns. It does seem to corner flatter and the car communicates far better. As for the ride, it's amazing. The car feels like a vault compared to the way it was before.


Dave

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

I have never had the priveledge to ride in any of the corvettes but I can understand the comparison now that I've been enlightened. So I have several questions. I already have a very stiff suspension with the AGX/Progress setup and it is on the verge of bearable. Will stiffening the chassis create a more solid feeling that is less harse or will it further encourage the harsh experience? I would assume the second is true. So is a softer spring more important to soften the ride or the strut. My next question is the same as my previous post; I have seen foams that can be injected into the frame to help stiffen it. After being injected this foam hardens. Where can I research this foam? Anyone have it or have a link to were to get it.

sean05

iTrader: (13)

OK. I have a few questions i wanna throw out here. Im probably gonna get hounded for asking blah blah but im a poor high school student. I been doing some research about coilovers. I know i need new shocks and stuts bc mine r pretty much blown. Many people have told me that GR2s will not support a large drop. I think they will be just fine. Im not looking for performance. Im going for purely 110% looks. I found OBX coilovers for like 150$
( <- I see it comming) If i would go with this set up would i need a camber kit? Alot of people are using ground control but how are they any different then these other brands?

Thanks

Sean

G20Flyer

If you are going for ALL looks then you could get GR2's. They will go bad with a big drop in about 2000-5000 miles.

Dave B

Do what you want, but you'll get what you pay for with all the crappy equipment. The struts will fail within a few thousand miles. Why not just save up for the $900 Tein coilover setup that will be out shortly? You'll end up spending $400 for the super crappy ricer OBX coilovers and GR-2s which will have to replaced within a few months. Why not invest in quality the first time?

Looking fast, but performing worse then stock =


Dave

Dave B

The SFCs will make the ride softer because the suspension will be doing the work, not the chassis. There's a reason all these car companies brag about how rigid their chassis are. It's because the car rides and stays together better.

As for spring/strut firmness. Usually for the best handling and ride, many higher end makers go with soft springs and very firm struts.


Dave

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the info Dave. That makes me want SFC's even more. LTB is next then SFC"s or RSTB. From this viewpoint you think RSTB is worth it? I still have the same question about the foam. Anyone? I know I've seen it. I'll do some more searching tonight.

Hey riceboy, sorry I forgot your name. If your going for 110% looks then you can cut your springs and stay on stock struts. That way you'll be dead fairly quickly and we'll have one less moron to deal with. Sorry for being so morbid. Its just the mood I'm in. Still, do it right or don't do it at all.

RastaManMax

iTrader: (5)

If you want good handling with GC simply don't slam your car down too low. My car handles wicked with Sprints, but then again the roads here are very smooth.

LEMAR