Just saw a show on Spike TV where they replaced all oil in a Chevy. Rear end, auto transmission and engine oils were replaced. A base line Dyno run was done on the dino oil prior to installing the Royal Purple oils. Base line was 302 HP and the synthetic Dyno run was 310.4 HP. This was not an infomercial but just something they did on a car show. Thought you might find this interesting as I did. By the way I am using Amsoil Synthetic oil in automatic transmission, engine and power steering.[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]

 

Oil is designed to protect the engine, not to gain hp perse. Try to find some material specs on Royal Purple and see if you still think this is a good oil to use. Any oil can be designed to free up hp. But most don't do this because it's at the expense of engine protection.

 

Haha, I watched that too. That Royal Puple is expensive and I don't think it will work well with a daily driver.

 

What Jeff said. The only way I understand that different oils could affect performance is that they allow may make the engine run cooler or hotter (?). No way that it can actually affect performance, unless the oil is truely old or defective.
-Cyrus

 

well newer oil allows for the metal parts to run easier, and witha nd old oil. lest friction less strees in the moving parts = quicker moving parts = faster engine = more power. more something like that.
thay even show this kind of power incresase, in
Gran Tourism games, where the older the oil is make you lose a couple of Horses.
now why would they show that in a video game that tries to be as realistic as possible.

 

my .02 is that engines all have friction that reduces the power that they generate. The oil contributes to this friction, and so less frictional oil will free up HP. Hopefully the protection is still being provided by the less viscous/frictional oils. I for one really hope so as I am using Castrol Syntec 0-20 weight. And X1-R additive.

I guess the deeper question that I will probably not fully understand w/o a book is how can an oil protect with less viscosity, since viscosity=friction... from what I have read the synthetic oils can penetrate the metal surfaces, increasing their hardness. Thus providing protection w/less concurrent viscosity. neways..

 

Maybe the old oil has been in the car fro god knows how long. It worn down and caused friction. Put in some new oil, reduce friction and there's your HP gain.

 

YES sythnetic will give you horsepower. YES this has been proven time and time again. NO it is not at the cost of protection.

You actually GAIN protection when switching to a full synthetic. Royal Purple is a great oil EVEN for daily driving. I used it in my turbo Talon for about 20k miles before I sold it. WONDERFUL oil and tranny fluid.

 

Heres a tough question:

Would you gain protection going from a regular oil 10-40 weight to full synth3tic 0-20 ? Because you would gain (minimal) power. Both fresh.

 

can switching to sythentic hurt you engine? i have heard horror stories but i do not know remember what they were acuallyabout. i have been thinking of switching to the synthertic but have nto made my mind up yet.

has anyone tried redline motor oil. i use there gear oil

 

Spanaird: Why would you ever run a 0-20? Synthetic 10w-30 is good for every condition. I live in New England, where we get -5 in the winter, and 100 in the summer. I run 10w-30 synthetic all year. Going from regular oil any weight to synthetic oil will always yield power and protection. You're probably not going to feel a difference, but it'll be there. There are reasons why high end sports cars come with synthetic from the factory, because it's BETTER.

ManualMaxima: The 'horror stories' that you have heard are greatly exaggerated. Switching from regular to synthetic is the smartest thing you can ever do for your motor. The only problem with the switch is if you have cracks in some of your seals and gaskets, that didn't leak previously with conventional oils, they MAY leak with synthetic because it is much thinner.

 

for the tiny bit of additional powwwaaaaaaaa aa aaa aaaaa

 

I learn it the hard way when switching to synthetic,when I bought my car with 79K miles on it.Car was leaking oil after the switch.

 

The reason that the leaking occurs when switching from conventional motor oil to full synthetic oil is not because synthetic oil is thinner. It's because synthetic oil is slicker/more slippery. Because it is so slippery it has the ability to work it's way between gasket's & other area's. This is the reason so many people report new leaks in their vehicle after switching to synthetic oil.
I don't think that switching from conventional oil to synthetic is a bad thing, you can consider it as an upgrade. I do however feel that changing from company to company isn't the smartest thing to do. Once you find a brand you prefer (Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, etc.) you should continue to kepp using that companies products. Another thing to remember is to stay away from Parafine based oils. These oils contain wax & will overtime build up in the engine. If you have ever disassembled a engine & seen caked on build up around the valvesprings & such then you can almost gaurentee that engine was run with a Parafine based oil (Pennsoil, Penske, etc.). Stick with what you have had good experiences with, thats the best advise I can give. I personally prefer Valvoline & Castrol for conventional motor oil & Mobil 1 for synthetic.

 

have run , perhaps 2000 engines of all types on the dyno. regardless of whether racing or street, two single most important criterea during the tests was air intake temp and oil temp.... in order to evaluate ANY change that we made , THOSE two parameters had to be within 10 degrees of where they were on the previous test or the results were badly skewed.... ( readers digest version). reason i mention this is that those shows on spike etc and the chassis dyno shops have no scientific basis for the repeatability of their testing and , as such , the claims they make.... in order to get " real" data, you have to run a series of tests in a range of conditions and average the results to see a clear trend... a one shot run doesn't do it. then, after you make your changes, repeat the test SEQUENCE ( not just a single pull) under the same or similar conditions to validate the results... and when you are done, the simple empirical test is to take it to the race track and see if the car is faster or if your dyno is just lying to you. can't tell you how many time i have seen people " bolt on " 50 hp and say " wow...car MUCH faster" only to have the stop watch prove them wrong. noise does not equate to speed.

as for oils... mobile 1 pure synthetic is the best lubricant for any application made at any price. the race motors come apart at the end of their service life with what is essentially ZERO wear and the ability to withstand temp extremes is unsurpassed...

also... low viscosity oils will "make" better power by virtue of lower viscous drag... any decrease in friction by virtue of chemistry is an added benefit but not the determining element... drop something in a glass of water and see how fast it sinks and then in a glass of oil.... see ? much slower... that's called drag and drag is a cubed facter in power consumption.... and drag never sleeps...

 

Synthetic oil is MUCH thinner. Being more slick has nothing to do with it. If it was ONLY just more slick it would gloss right over the small cracks. It's MUCH thinner then conventional oil. Whoever said otherwise has never compared to two. Even by sight you can tell a huge difference.

 

The same weight in synthetic oil should be the same thickness in regular oil.

 

Compare them and then tell me that.

 

I switched to synthetic around 80000 miles. I even swtiched back to regular oil and then back to synthetic. No problems here. I have 97xxx miles and the car is running just fine, no oil leaks.

 

Um not it's not. It's more CONSISTENT in size on the molecular level. It's not smaller or larger.

Viscosity describes the "thinness" or the ability to flow. A 5w30 dino is the same as 5w30 synthetic. Just that the synthetic STAYS at 5w30 at much larger temperature ranges.

 

I recently switched to 15W50 on my Maxima from normal 10W30. I used Mobil 1 since I got her- from her 1st oil change at 1K miles. Engine is super clean. Reason I went with a 15W50 oil is I really abuse the engine alot- oil temps climb up to 250F at times and with 15W50 my temps don't get that high- in the summer, same thing went with my G20-= engine valve train is much quieter at 6000-8000RPMs- car is also turbocharged to it has hotter temps than even a NA v6 like a VQ.

 

I wouldnt think so

 

and why nott ??

 

where's Bill?

 

Either way, when you pull it out your car after XXXX miles the synthetic is STILL thinner than the regular.

 

you don't "see" or "weigh" viscosity. the viscosity of a liquid is a measure of its abilty to flow under a set of standard conditions. what you see with oils that are obviously thicker than others with higher viscodity numbers is a function of the additives and thickeners that the blenders put in during manufacture to make their oil meet that standard number. synthetics will flow much better as a function of that chemistry so that they have lower viscoity numbers but with equivilent protection of higher viscosity numbers...

two VERY good things about high quality synthetics.....first, low viscosity for increased performance by virtue of low drag ...second incredible temp resistance as opposed to petro oils. no turbo application or any application that gets to 250 repeatably should be using anything but a high grade synthetic. ...and mobile one is the best. it is pure synthetic as opposed to others that are petro oil base with synthetic additives.

the thing about oil leaks is an "old wives tale" based in some fact. in the beginning of time when synthetic oils were new to the market, there were some manufacturers, notably english and some italian, that were still using natural rubber seals. synthetics didn't like those seals...amongst other similar sort of problems. in modern times...like after 1970 NO ONE uses natural rubber any more and the leak issue is a non issue.

this is a no brainer discussion..... you can put mobil one SYNTHETIC ( and be careful because they make a petro oil as well) in your car and have the single best performance and protection that any oil can offer, or you can put something else it and have something less.... your choice...

and no...i don't work for mobil...but i have scientifically tested " every" oil and lube there is... and mobil one has them covered by a lot...

actually that's a lie.... there is a pure synthetic that comes out of california... NEO who makes a ZERO weight racing oil that we use in some low power race engines thats very good... but about 5 times what mobile one costs off the shelf at K mart.....

 

Personally I'm not a fan of mobil one. I haven't been since they switched to their new formula about 2 years ago. I still use it, but when I can I either buy Amsoil or Royal Purple.

 

amsoil a pretty good product , royal purple disctinctly average in testing... both not widley available, both more expensive than M1, neither close in performance

addendum..... let me be clear.... in 99.9999 % of the applications for street use, it doesn't make any significant difference what oil you use....

if you run cheapo petro oil and change it every 2500 or 3000 miles then you are going to get the same wear protection as about anything else for what would be considered a normal service life under nominal conditions.... BUT outside of those "norms " is where the differences lay...

1) FACT........ a lighter viscosity oil will give you better milage and performance. it doesn't matter whether its syn or petro... it is a function of viscous drag

2) FACT...... when your oil temp gets to 250 normal petro oil starts to not like it very much... it will work ok to 300 and maybe 325 but if it spends any real time there , you are doing damage. synthetics laugh at those temps and continue to work just fine.... this is not to advocate those temps.... but if you are running track days etc or have a turbo where the oil that sits in the housing cooks like the center of the sun after you shut the car off,..... well lets just say that you want some kind of oil that doesn't turn to charcoal over 300....

3) FACT ..... normal petro oil creates its own contamination as it gets old, hot and breaks down... thats that dead fish smell you get when you get it too hot.... syns keep the engine clean by holding the unburned fuel in suspension until it gets hot enough to burn off normally and, as such, remains cleaner for a lot longer....

so.... if you want your car ( oil lubricated parts, that is ) to go 400k and have the best performace and efficiency it can have, then you run a high grade synthetic and change it as often as you can afford to... but 6 or 8000 is perfectly ok in warmer climates and 4 to 6 k in colder climates....

if you are using your car as a daily beater, then you could use buck a quart petro and change it every 3000 and only get 200 k out of the oil lubed parts ....much longer than any other part of the car will last....

so.... it all comes down to what you want to believe you are trying to do.... if all that is is drive your car to work every day at 55mph then i dare say you could use any oil you want and change it once a year and the car would last forever.... if you are pumping the compression and putting six turbos on it and running it to 7000 rpm on every shift... well then you need a little better lubrication than the first guy does....

basic rule of engineering.... only solve the problems you REALLY have...

 

Actually Royal Purple is the same price as M1 where I'm from. And both available at Napa.

 

You got some data on that? Because the data right above you in the stickies show otherwise

Actually. Dinos don't "create" contaminates. It's already in the oil. The difference inbetween dino and synthetics is that synthetics don't have those contaminates when it's being made. So thus less sludge and byproducts as the oil eventually breaks down. And in modern engines, the oil is not really required to "hold" unburnt fuel. Oil is required to hold small particles and other byproducts in suspension that don't get caught by the filter until the oil is changed.


Not really. Modern cars should be able to go well over 200k if taken care of. That goes for all the parts that aren't engine related.

 

Actually you might be right. But NOT for the reasons you think. Sythetics hold their viscosity rates for much longer than dino. So when you pull it out of the engine. A 5w30 synthetic is still very close to a 5w30. But a dino at 5w30 might be more like a 30w when it's pulled. But again it depends on at what temp you drain the oil out right??
But the fact is 5w30 is a 5w30 not matter if it's synthetic or dino.

 

That is what I was saying.
I agree.

 

That is called superior film strength.

Again you have those test results showing Mobil 1 being so much superior than Amsoil etc..? The test results in the above stickies suggest otherwise.

Or you can use Series 2000 Amsoil and gain superior film strength and a superior additive package for longer drain intervals.

Looking forward to the data.

You do know that oils for racing only are NOT good for street cars right? Racing oils get changed every race. Racing oils don't have to flow when very cold. Racing oil don't have to have additive pacakges to protect seals, ward off against corrosion, fight sludge, stop and go traffic and have to live for 5,000+ miles.

Racing synthetics that free up hp on a motor usually do that at the expensive of engine life and protection as racing engines are torn down very frequently for freshening up. We don't have that option

 

Here is some information about the great Royal Purple. The lack of published info is scary.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=52814

 

all the data we have comes from repeating the std engineering tests for oils and lubricants as specified in those procedures.... in addition, we have the empirical data from the dyno and and from the race track and from hundreds and hundreds of street cars....

all the oil manufacturers will give you those lab test results.... but of considerable greater importance was the real world testing... and mobil 1 has proven itself in every catagory to be better.

i take issue with your suggestion that the amsoil claim of " longer service life " has any validity. all good synthetics have extended service life for exactly the reason i mentioned.... they do not create their own contaminents by virtue of breakdown.... no true synthetic degrades in that manner.... so all of them...IF they are pure synthetic do that and, as such , can stay in your motor as long as you care to have them or that you don't EXTERNALLY contaminate them...and that's where the unburned fuel etc come in... thats where all that goes... straight into the oil along with all the particulate matter that might be kicking around... the oil filter grabs the particals and the fuel burns off as vapor when the oil temp gets high enough...


and when i talk about lube related parts... i don't consider any other factors as what we are talking about... i know people that can destroy any car in 20 k and others whose hyundai's go 300 k.... meaningless argument.... what we are talking about is the objective ability of a lube to make a machine live and perform better than another lube under the same circumstances... my contention, based on about 10 million miles of customer street cars experience and 5 times at the 24 hrs of daytona in prototypes and sebring and the like and 6 national championships in sports racers in SCCA and more club and pro wins than i can count both mine and my customers, is that mobile one has everyone covered... both as a racing and a street lube....

obviously pure racing lubes are different... but not in ANY way at the expense of wear... except maybe REDLINE which is the worst excuse for an oil that i have ever tested...

good low viscosity racing oils are JUST that... good oils... if YOU choose one without sufficient film strength for your application then you are making a mistake the same way you would as running too low an octane fuel for your compression ratio..... the oil you want for your 44 hp formula vee motor is NOT the oil that john force puts in his fuel dragster... not better... not worse.... just different.

you don't have to believe me... just reporting results of 20 years of doing this. you can believe the propganda if you want... am sure that is why the magic " magnetic fuel atomizers" and tornado air turbines and magic teflon additives have such a wide market... always someone that will believe anything.

if you are happy with your amsoil or purple people eater... is ok w/ me... ill continue to go to wall mart and buy the M1 on sale cheap and have the best lube money can buy at any price...

 

Great. Then show it to us

Not in the tests that our members have submitted for analysis here on .org. Mobil 1 is good no doubt. Best? Not really.

Again, you don't have to believe me. Based on member's oil analysis done here on .org and that are PUBLISHED here in plain view, Amsoil's synthetics along with their superior additive package (that Mobil lacks btw), has been proven to provide superior protection over long drain intervals.


Fine, then there should be a ton of links available for us to review.

Wear over the short run is much different than wear over the long run as in what a street car has to endure. Racing does not equal street car in terms of how long the oil has to provide protection. Hrs vs months, 100s of miles vs 1000s of miles etc.....

Why would I chose a oil without sufficent film strength when I'm saying Amsoil is superior? It has superior film strength.

I find that fact you are comparing my opinion to these gadgets insulting. My opinions are based on published findings that I've stated where they are.

I'm not an advocate of Royal Purple. If you had read the link provided, you would have known that.
I'm an advocate of Amsoil that has has published proof have having superior film strength over Mobil 1 and features a superior additive package

 

Here is a direct comparision for Mobil/Amsoil.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

 

well........ maybe you're right.... i just don't happen to think so and nothing in my experience tells me you are. ill dig out my test notes and publish them for you . i punched up that link where they they test drive that car and do the oil sampling and find that completely unscientific and unconvincing.... simply not an apples to apples test... and i punched up probably 15 different "objective test" sites...only to find them as advertising for amsoil.... so... nothing to convince me yet... but who knows... IF the test data they quote in their ads ...especially the 4 ball test and temp shear results are valid and accurate then you would have to say that in the most critical areas of lube, they have the clear and un ambigous edge...

but having said that, that is exactly what drove me to do our own testing... REDLINE , for instance made similar claims and provided similar data.... yet at 800 miles on a 10 : 1 race motor , three tests, six different motors, the redline motor showed measureable bore, bearing and camshaft wear and the mobile one motor showed effectively zero....
the little scratches that we cause in the bearings with the dial bore guage during initial set up...(effectively pencil lines) were still present...

so.... let me dig up the data and do a little research and ill get back to you...

lets see if there were any genuinely independent lab tests done anywhere that support either contention.

oh..one test result that i DO remember is that i ran a single cylinder motor with a 5 hp electric motor and a watt hour meter . 10 tests , ams oil, m1 and castrol syntec.... alternating oils , 1hr test , 10 times... M1 8 % less electricty over amsoil and 14 % over syntec...


mk 9 hewland 4 and 5 speed racing gearboxes.... at least 50 different customers using every lube known to man... including amsoil....and these are non syncro crash boxes that are filled with bits of brass from the shift foks and bits of broken gear all the time...

ring and pinion life with the M1 virtually forever never replaced one with some over 2500 hrs

red line about 400 hours on avg

normal pertroleum 90 wt about 600 on avg

other good synthetics inc amsoil.... 1000 and 1400 depending....


but thats just me , i guess

 

......

 

For some basic characteristics for VI and flashpoint, Mobil is not tops in the 10w30 and 5w30 (the most commonly used weights used)
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html