Dyno horsepower gains using synthetic oil!
06-29-2004, 04:54 PM
#41
Originally Posted by stevesxm
well........ maybe you're right.... i just don't happen to think so and nothing in my experience tells me you are. ill dig out my test notes and publish them for you . i punched up that link where they they test drive that car and do the oil sampling and find that completely unscientific and unconvincing.... simply not an apples to apples test... and i punched up probably 15 different "objective test" sites...only to find them as advertising for amsoil.... so... nothing to convince me yet... but who knows... IF the test data they quote in their ads ...especially the 4 ball test and temp shear results are valid and accurate then you would have to say that in the most critical areas of lube, they have the clear and un ambigous edge...
but having said that, that is exactly what drove me to do our own testing... REDLINE , for instance made similar claims and provided similar data.... yet at 800 miles on a 10 : 1 race motor , three tests, six different motors, the redline motor showed measureable bore, bearing and camshaft wear and the mobile one motor showed effectively zero....
the little scratches that we cause in the bearings with the dial bore guage during initial set up...(effectively pencil lines) were still present...
so.... let me dig up the data and do a little research and ill get back to you...
lets see if there were any genuinely independent lab tests done anywhere that support either contention.
oh..one test result that i DO remember is that i ran a single cylinder motor with a 5 hp electric motor and a watt hour meter . 10 tests , ams oil, m1 and castrol syntec.... alternating oils , 1hr test , 10 times... M1 8 % less electricty over amsoil and 14 % over syntec...
mk 9 hewland 4 and 5 speed racing gearboxes.... at least 50 different customers using every lube known to man... including amsoil....and these are non syncro crash boxes that are filled with bits of brass from the shift foks and bits of broken gear all the time...
ring and pinion life with the M1 virtually forever never replaced one with some over 2500 hrs
red line about 400 hours on avg
normal pertroleum 90 wt about 600 on avg
other good synthetics inc amsoil.... 1000 and 1400 depending....
but thats just me , i guess
but having said that, that is exactly what drove me to do our own testing... REDLINE , for instance made similar claims and provided similar data.... yet at 800 miles on a 10 : 1 race motor , three tests, six different motors, the redline motor showed measureable bore, bearing and camshaft wear and the mobile one motor showed effectively zero....
the little scratches that we cause in the bearings with the dial bore guage during initial set up...(effectively pencil lines) were still present...
so.... let me dig up the data and do a little research and ill get back to you...
lets see if there were any genuinely independent lab tests done anywhere that support either contention.
oh..one test result that i DO remember is that i ran a single cylinder motor with a 5 hp electric motor and a watt hour meter . 10 tests , ams oil, m1 and castrol syntec.... alternating oils , 1hr test , 10 times... M1 8 % less electricty over amsoil and 14 % over syntec...
mk 9 hewland 4 and 5 speed racing gearboxes.... at least 50 different customers using every lube known to man... including amsoil....and these are non syncro crash boxes that are filled with bits of brass from the shift foks and bits of broken gear all the time...
ring and pinion life with the M1 virtually forever never replaced one with some over 2500 hrs
red line about 400 hours on avg
normal pertroleum 90 wt about 600 on avg
other good synthetics inc amsoil.... 1000 and 1400 depending....
but thats just me , i guess
Dear heavens we are over complicating this.
Just go to the website link Jeff posted with the Camaro and the wear levels of Mobil and Amsoil, or head over to www.bobistheoilguy.com and look at user's Royal Purple/Amsoil/Mobil results. I find a good Royal Purple showing rare. To be fair, I see more Mobil 1 good results than Amsoils, particularly because some people take Amsoil's promises too literally. So many factors affect real world longevity, but RP has consistently not held up well from a viscosity and additive retention standpoint, even with Jiffy Lube intervals.
My impressions do not pertain to RP's Racing oil 21, which actually looks to be a better oil than the regular RP, but I would never recommend using it on a daily driver......
06-30-2004, 01:55 PM
#43
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1
I have read with much interest the discussion between AMSOil users and Mobile 1 users. Many areas of thought have been discussed as to the benefits and strengths between the two. I have some questions I would like for someone to consider and answer if possible.
I use the AMSOIL Tri-guard system with the AMSOIL 100% synthetic oil. The emphasis of this system is filtering. There is an oil foam air filter, and a dual oil filtering system. One filter is a standard filter, but the second filter is what I call a “Scrubber” filter that filters out water, and impurities down to the 10 micro level. This number may be low or high but does not affect the questions that I have.
1. If oil holds small particles and other byproducts in suspension that don't get caught by normal filters, does the addition of a "scrubber" filter affect the change interval and protection of moving parts.
2. Assuming that additives are used up. It seems to me that oil can no longer provide the protection it did when the oil and its additives were fresh.
My question here is, if additives are being depleted, what good will it do to have a "scrubber" filter? My oil may look good and clean, but it may not be protecting my engine at the level it did when fresh.
3. Where do these additives go? Do they bind themselves to the dirt then get trapped in the filter? Do they evaporate?
4. My AMSOIL dealer told me that you could use the same oil indefinitely by changing the filters at 15K intervals, and having an oil analysis done at 50K intervals.
I have been truly impressed with the "scrubber" filter's ability to clean the oil. After changing the filters, my oil returns to its "Fresh out of the bottle look" after a few days. However, I would not think it wise to run oil without its additives.
So, does addition of better filtering change any of your positions or data? Has anyone tested the Tri-guard system for comparisons with standard (one oil filter/paper air filter elements)?
I use the AMSOIL Tri-guard system with the AMSOIL 100% synthetic oil. The emphasis of this system is filtering. There is an oil foam air filter, and a dual oil filtering system. One filter is a standard filter, but the second filter is what I call a “Scrubber” filter that filters out water, and impurities down to the 10 micro level. This number may be low or high but does not affect the questions that I have.
1. If oil holds small particles and other byproducts in suspension that don't get caught by normal filters, does the addition of a "scrubber" filter affect the change interval and protection of moving parts.
2. Assuming that additives are used up. It seems to me that oil can no longer provide the protection it did when the oil and its additives were fresh.
My question here is, if additives are being depleted, what good will it do to have a "scrubber" filter? My oil may look good and clean, but it may not be protecting my engine at the level it did when fresh.
3. Where do these additives go? Do they bind themselves to the dirt then get trapped in the filter? Do they evaporate?
4. My AMSOIL dealer told me that you could use the same oil indefinitely by changing the filters at 15K intervals, and having an oil analysis done at 50K intervals.
I have been truly impressed with the "scrubber" filter's ability to clean the oil. After changing the filters, my oil returns to its "Fresh out of the bottle look" after a few days. However, I would not think it wise to run oil without its additives.
So, does addition of better filtering change any of your positions or data? Has anyone tested the Tri-guard system for comparisons with standard (one oil filter/paper air filter elements)?
07-01-2004, 12:52 PM
#44
Originally Posted by grray
I have read with much interest the discussion between AMSOil users and Mobile 1 users. Many areas of thought have been discussed as to the benefits and strengths between the two. I have some questions I would like for someone to consider and answer if possible.
I use the AMSOIL Tri-guard system with the AMSOIL 100% synthetic oil. The emphasis of this system is filtering. There is an oil foam air filter, and a dual oil filtering system. One filter is a standard filter, but the second filter is what I call a “Scrubber” filter that filters out water, and impurities down to the 10 micro level. This number may be low or high but does not affect the questions that I have.
1. If oil holds small particles and other byproducts in suspension that don't get caught by normal filters, does the addition of a "scrubber" filter affect the change interval and protection of moving parts.
2. Assuming that additives are used up. It seems to me that oil can no longer provide the protection it did when the oil and its additives were fresh.
My question here is, if additives are being depleted, what good will it do to have a "scrubber" filter? My oil may look good and clean, but it may not be protecting my engine at the level it did when fresh.
3. Where do these additives go? Do they bind themselves to the dirt then get trapped in the filter? Do they evaporate?
4. My AMSOIL dealer told me that you could use the same oil indefinitely by changing the filters at 15K intervals, and having an oil analysis done at 50K intervals.
I have been truly impressed with the "scrubber" filter's ability to clean the oil. After changing the filters, my oil returns to its "Fresh out of the bottle look" after a few days. However, I would not think it wise to run oil without its additives.
So, does addition of better filtering change any of your positions or data? Has anyone tested the Tri-guard system for comparisons with standard (one oil filter/paper air filter elements)?
I use the AMSOIL Tri-guard system with the AMSOIL 100% synthetic oil. The emphasis of this system is filtering. There is an oil foam air filter, and a dual oil filtering system. One filter is a standard filter, but the second filter is what I call a “Scrubber” filter that filters out water, and impurities down to the 10 micro level. This number may be low or high but does not affect the questions that I have.
1. If oil holds small particles and other byproducts in suspension that don't get caught by normal filters, does the addition of a "scrubber" filter affect the change interval and protection of moving parts.
2. Assuming that additives are used up. It seems to me that oil can no longer provide the protection it did when the oil and its additives were fresh.
My question here is, if additives are being depleted, what good will it do to have a "scrubber" filter? My oil may look good and clean, but it may not be protecting my engine at the level it did when fresh.
3. Where do these additives go? Do they bind themselves to the dirt then get trapped in the filter? Do they evaporate?
4. My AMSOIL dealer told me that you could use the same oil indefinitely by changing the filters at 15K intervals, and having an oil analysis done at 50K intervals.
I have been truly impressed with the "scrubber" filter's ability to clean the oil. After changing the filters, my oil returns to its "Fresh out of the bottle look" after a few days. However, I would not think it wise to run oil without its additives.
So, does addition of better filtering change any of your positions or data? Has anyone tested the Tri-guard system for comparisons with standard (one oil filter/paper air filter elements)?
My opinion is completely different regarding Amsoil and the use of bypass filtration. I don't consider that a typical usage for the purposes of discussion here. Many, including myself, have tried Amsoil's 25k/35k intervals with standard filtration. Most, if not all, have lead to elevated bearing wear, increased oxidation, high insolubles, and "plus one" viscosity increase (i.e. 30W turning to a 40W).
I have no doubt bypass filtration would alleviate these issues and allow almost indefinite use of Amsoil with changes on the order of years instead of months.
07-01-2004, 03:44 PM
#45
Originally Posted by deezo
Light weight oil will give you less resistance than thicker oil. HP will be freed up when using lighter weight oil.
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