Cattman headers, worth it?
06-15-2004, 04:25 AM
#41
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
Have YOU seen a Cattman header vs. aftermarket y-pipe dyno? No? Then you're the one that should've thought first. I'm challenging your ASSumption that these headers do "almost" nothing performance-wise. They cant prove that it helps but you can't prove that it doesn't. I understand your skepticism, but just wait for the dyno as opposed to bad-mouthing it like you have proof. 
06-15-2004, 04:50 AM
#42
This thread is kind of amazing to me. Dude is getting **** on for being skeptical about the gains from headers by people who have **absolutely no** evidence to back them up. What, exactly, makes your opinion so much more valuable than his? *** dynos? Yea, you know what? For $800 I don't think I'm going to be worrying too much about what people's *** dyno says. If I worried about *** dynos my car would be full of resistors, giant ground wires, my knock sensor would be mounted to the roof of my car, I would have an electric fan in my intake...and none of it would be doing anything at all. Seems to me that the *** dyno tends to be influenced significantly by the cost of the mod as well.
I am NOT knocking people who beleve in the headers, just people who are giving dude a hard time for NOT believing in them without proof.
Now, I thought I remembered some dynos being posted on here that showed that they weren't making all that much power (I thought it was even less that 8HP) over a Y-Pipe in an NA Max. I must be mistaken given the tone of this thread. What we need is for someone to post their before and after quarter mile times, or before and after dyno...that is the ONLY thing that will settle the bickering. When that happens, there is no recrimination or anger necessary as well...there is nothing wrong with BELIEVING in a mod and there is nothing wrong with being SKEPTICAL about something that costs $800 before proof is shown.
I would be extremely interested in numbers on an NA, non-mevi Max. My flex section is going and I need to do something soon. However, I'm not about to sink $800 + another $350 for the install into a mod which may or may not give me gains over a $180 mod that I can install myself. Anyone who has a problem with that can go ahead and paypal me the price difference, since apparently a $970 overall price difference doesn't mean anything to some people here.
I am NOT knocking people who beleve in the headers, just people who are giving dude a hard time for NOT believing in them without proof.
Now, I thought I remembered some dynos being posted on here that showed that they weren't making all that much power (I thought it was even less that 8HP) over a Y-Pipe in an NA Max. I must be mistaken given the tone of this thread. What we need is for someone to post their before and after quarter mile times, or before and after dyno...that is the ONLY thing that will settle the bickering. When that happens, there is no recrimination or anger necessary as well...there is nothing wrong with BELIEVING in a mod and there is nothing wrong with being SKEPTICAL about something that costs $800 before proof is shown.
I would be extremely interested in numbers on an NA, non-mevi Max. My flex section is going and I need to do something soon. However, I'm not about to sink $800 + another $350 for the install into a mod which may or may not give me gains over a $180 mod that I can install myself. Anyone who has a problem with that can go ahead and paypal me the price difference, since apparently a $970 overall price difference doesn't mean anything to some people here.
06-15-2004, 06:14 AM
#43
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
What we know about Cattman headers:
1) They made 22whp on a supercharged Maxima, however the 22whp gain happened over approximately a 500rpm area. That kind of gain wouldn't even show up on the track. I also believe this guy didn't have a y-pipe prior.
2) A 4th gen owner in Arizona with a beige auto (can't remember his name), went from a y-pipe to headers and tested them at the track. I believe the difference in ET was around .1 seconds, but oddly his trap speed was basically the same. IMO, the car is really no quicker because increased trap speed would show increased power. No change in trap speed = no change in power. Ceasar has also done track testing with the headers and he hasn't seen any improvements, but conditions have become warmer at his track so his ET/MPH may have slipped a little.
3) No one has done a y-pipe to Cattman header dyno comparison.
4) The headers are not made by Cattman, but instead by a company in New Zealand. Years ago Emax used these New Zealand headers on his I30 5 speed and his numbers on the dyno and at the track were no better than the Y-pipe. Cattman says these headers are of a better design now.
5) The headers look sweet
6) Headers supposedly sound sweet. I've seen in cabin videos of Ceasar's Maxima with headers and I don't hear anything special, but the audio pick up may not be good.
7) The headers are a pain to install
8) The headers have not proved themselves at the track.....yet
9) We can't decide anything until a few dyno comparos and more track testing is done.
10) Cattman headers supposedly fit perfect. A rarity in the aftermarket world.
1) They made 22whp on a supercharged Maxima, however the 22whp gain happened over approximately a 500rpm area. That kind of gain wouldn't even show up on the track. I also believe this guy didn't have a y-pipe prior.
2) A 4th gen owner in Arizona with a beige auto (can't remember his name), went from a y-pipe to headers and tested them at the track. I believe the difference in ET was around .1 seconds, but oddly his trap speed was basically the same. IMO, the car is really no quicker because increased trap speed would show increased power. No change in trap speed = no change in power. Ceasar has also done track testing with the headers and he hasn't seen any improvements, but conditions have become warmer at his track so his ET/MPH may have slipped a little.
3) No one has done a y-pipe to Cattman header dyno comparison.
4) The headers are not made by Cattman, but instead by a company in New Zealand. Years ago Emax used these New Zealand headers on his I30 5 speed and his numbers on the dyno and at the track were no better than the Y-pipe. Cattman says these headers are of a better design now.
5) The headers look sweet
6) Headers supposedly sound sweet. I've seen in cabin videos of Ceasar's Maxima with headers and I don't hear anything special, but the audio pick up may not be good.
7) The headers are a pain to install
8) The headers have not proved themselves at the track.....yet
9) We can't decide anything until a few dyno comparos and more track testing is done.
10) Cattman headers supposedly fit perfect. A rarity in the aftermarket world.
06-15-2004, 06:31 AM
#44
Originally Posted by Dave B
4) The headers are not made by Cattman, but instead by a company in New Zealand. Years ago Emax used these New Zealand headers on his I30 5 speed and his numbers on the dyno and at the track were no better than the Y-pipe. Cattman says these headers are of a better design now.
THANK YOU for bringing what few facts we have to this thread. Hopefully we can get some dyno #'s sometime.
06-15-2004, 08:27 AM
#46
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Kind of a strange argument you're making. I would think the burden of proof is on Cattman and the owners of the headers to show that there are definite gains on a NA Maxima. I haven't seen any, yet, but maybe I missed it. I have seen dynos where Cattman's headers added over 22 hp to a supercharged Maxima, however.
Originally Posted by Big D
Then why is it that replacing them with more open, free flowing ones we get ALMOST no gains whatsoever?
Another point i wanted to make is that most owners of the Cattman headers don't have the MEVI. As i see it, this mod would help in the 4000+ RPM to beyond redline. Without a MEVI, the engine won't make much power past 5500 RPM no matter what exhaust restriction is removed because the engine can't breathe. This would translate to marginal HP gains shown on the dynos plus not much of an increase in trap speed. A dyno of someone with MEVI+aftermarket y vs. MEVI+Cattman headers would be much more telling of what these headers can really do.
06-15-2004, 08:38 AM
#47
Originally Posted by Dave B
What we know about Cattman headers:
3) No one has done a y-pipe to Cattman header dyno comparison.
4) The headers are not made by Cattman, but instead by a company in New Zealand. Years ago Emax used these New Zealand headers on his I30 5 speed and his numbers on the dyno and at the track were no better than the Y-pipe. Cattman says these headers are of a better design now.
5) The headers look sweet
6) Headers supposedly sound sweet. I've seen in cabin videos of Ceasar's Maxima with headers and I don't hear anything special, but the audio pick up may not be good.
7) The headers are a pain to install
3) No one has done a y-pipe to Cattman header dyno comparison.
4) The headers are not made by Cattman, but instead by a company in New Zealand. Years ago Emax used these New Zealand headers on his I30 5 speed and his numbers on the dyno and at the track were no better than the Y-pipe. Cattman says these headers are of a better design now.
5) The headers look sweet
6) Headers supposedly sound sweet. I've seen in cabin videos of Ceasar's Maxima with headers and I don't hear anything special, but the audio pick up may not be good.
7) The headers are a pain to install
8) The headers have not proved themselves at the track.....yet
9) We can't decide anything until a few dyno comparos and more track testing is done.
10) Cattman headers supposedly fit perfect. A rarity in the aftermarket world.
06-15-2004, 08:45 AM
#48
A dyno of someone with MEVI+aftermarket y vs. MEVI+Cattman headers would be much more telling of what these headers can really do.
06-15-2004, 09:26 AM
#49
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
Have YOU seen a Cattman header vs. aftermarket y-pipe dyno? No? Then you're the one that should've thought first. I'm challenging your ASSumption that these headers do "almost" nothing performance-wise. They cant prove that it helps but you can't prove that it doesn't. I understand your skepticism, but just wait for the dyno as opposed to bad-mouthing it like you have proof.
A dyno on a fully modded car won't do **** for me either. We need a stock car with a Y then with the headers. CATTMAN should've done this in the first place instead of posting that BS dyno.
06-15-2004, 10:29 AM
#50
Originally Posted by Big D
Then why is it that replacing them with more open, free flowing ones we get ALMOST no gains whatsoever?
06-15-2004, 10:31 AM
#51
Cattman Headers:
This dyno was before ceramic coating...which would be good for another ~2hp at least.
(only wanted to bring up the actual dyno results...)
The following dyno chart compares the headers with a stock y-pipe on a rather tired 97 SE with 100k+ miles. Note that the tested headers were not ceramic coated, and this will have a significant effect on heat retention and tubing wall friction (which will likely be good for a couple more horsepower).
Although peak horsepower increased by 16.4hp and peak torque by 14.9 ft/lbs, this does not describe how the power curve was extended by 500+ rpm instead of falling off a cliff. The Cattman headers added 16.5-18.6 more hp from 4800-6200 rpm and 15.5-18.5 more ft/lbs of torque from 4600-5800 rpm.
Although peak horsepower increased by 16.4hp and peak torque by 14.9 ft/lbs, this does not describe how the power curve was extended by 500+ rpm instead of falling off a cliff. The Cattman headers added 16.5-18.6 more hp from 4800-6200 rpm and 15.5-18.5 more ft/lbs of torque from 4600-5800 rpm.
This dyno was before ceramic coating...which would be good for another ~2hp at least.
(only wanted to bring up the actual dyno results...)
06-15-2004, 10:48 AM
#52
Originally Posted by MrEous
Cattman Headers:
This dyno was before ceramic coating...which would be good for another ~2hp at least.
(only wanted to bring up the actual dyno results...)
This dyno was before ceramic coating...which would be good for another ~2hp at least.
(only wanted to bring up the actual dyno results...)
06-15-2004, 10:52 AM
#53
Why quote me if yours is the next post?
I know a comparison was needed...but some people posted they hadn't seen any dyno graphs of before/after headers.
Believe me, if there was anything I was more sure about it is that everyone wants to see before/after ypipe to header dynos. I was the 2nd prototype for the Stone Racing Headers but didn't have an aftermarket y-pipe for the before. So yes, I know this man.haha
I know a comparison was needed...but some people posted they hadn't seen any dyno graphs of before/after headers.
Believe me, if there was anything I was more sure about it is that everyone wants to see before/after ypipe to header dynos. I was the 2nd prototype for the Stone Racing Headers but didn't have an aftermarket y-pipe for the before. So yes, I know this man.haha
06-15-2004, 10:57 AM
#54
I quoted you so you knew I was talking to you.
Anyway, I not saying you need a aftermarket Y-pipe to header dyno, I'm saying if you or someone else can post a stock Y vs. aftermarket Y dyno then when can, be it half assed, compare the gains of each over stock.
Anyway, I not saying you need a aftermarket Y-pipe to header dyno, I'm saying if you or someone else can post a stock Y vs. aftermarket Y dyno then when can, be it half assed, compare the gains of each over stock.
06-15-2004, 11:27 AM
#55
But that sort of comparison is flawed because the test subjects aren't the same cars and most likely aren't using the same correction factors. I know your point but everyone here wants 'exact' science.
06-15-2004, 11:59 AM
#56
Originally Posted by Big D
When the hell did I say they don't do nothing? And no, you're wrong. There is no dyno for them meaning that until there is you're the one who should think first. You know how they say innocent until proven guilty? Well, thiis is like no gain of power til proven on a dyno. I did not badmouth these headers, the shorties yes. These apparently do gain power but it's not really worth it to many. I believe Ceasar that these are great but that doesn't really say the power gains. Just keep your mouth shut.
A dyno on a fully modded car won't do **** for me either. We need a stock car with a Y then with the headers. CATTMAN should've done this in the first place instead of posting that BS dyno.
06-15-2004, 03:17 PM
#58
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
You said they "get ALMOST no gains whatsoever." I'm just wondering what you're basing that on, that's all. Maybe you saw something I didn't.
I'm pretty sure that the headers won't show much of a difference over a y-pipe with the USIM manifold because the engine can't breathe past 5500 RPM making extensive exhaust mods pretty useless. That's why i think a MEVI+Cattman vs. MEVI+aftermarket y-pipe would make more sense.
I'm pretty sure that the headers won't show much of a difference over a y-pipe with the USIM manifold because the engine can't breathe past 5500 RPM making extensive exhaust mods pretty useless. That's why i think a MEVI+Cattman vs. MEVI+aftermarket y-pipe would make more sense.
06-15-2004, 04:31 PM
#60
Originally Posted by Big D
I really can't remember saying that the cattman headers "get ALMOST no gains whatsoever." I don't remember saying that, really.
MrEous I know the comparison would be flawed as I said "half assed". But I think the conversion factors would not matter that much because we would not be comparing a header to a Y-pipe, but each of those vs. stock. The way I see it a gain is a gain, just post a dyno of a stock Y vs. an aftermarket Y and it'll show us something don't you think.
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