Having a little argument on another forum. Some kid is saying that '00 Civic Si's handle better then a 97 Max. I beg to differ. I need to clear some things up here. I've heard that our cars have a great suspension system for stock.

Either I'm wasting my 4th of July weekend time, or this kid I'm arguing with is a blatant moron(which most people think he is anyways).

What are your opinions about our cars suspension/handling?

 

i think our suspension is ok, could be better

 

Never actually been in an Si, but I would bet they have way better handling than us. Handling is definitely the max's weak point. of course for $400-$800 that can be remedied. They'd have to put in more than that to equal our engines. Just my $.02.

 

Yea, he might have you on this one. Our handling is not all that great.

 

well some clarification is in order - do you mean ride comfort or road course performance?

No idea on the former, though given the stock wheel gap I would hazard a guess that our stock suspension is very much "cushy". So if ride comfort is what your Si friend was raving about then yeah you win.

Otherwise,

But what do we care about Civics anyways, unless they're blown?

 

Yeah, I'd tend to say any Honda in general has better handling than a Maxima. Throw on the suffix Si and should be a deciding factor. The Prelude Si handles as if it's on rails, I'd think the Civic borrows some of that. C'mon now, double wishbones compared to a beam axle??? The only thing a Maxima can do is handle g's, but as far as doing a slalom it's a real slacker.

I see a lot of people pick up 4th gens for ridiculous prices, ones that you would never see for a Civic. So that's the difference, even though our cars don't handle as well, we have a better motor and more money in the bank!

 

Hmm, thanks for the replies everyone. I thought our suspension was good, so I suppose it is just average. Oh well, what can ya do?

 

well our suspension is good, but remember, our cars weren't really meant for performance, we make it a performance car.
they only handle better because they are not as heavy and smaller.
what the hell, who cares about those honda's!

"If a fast car makes you die fast, drive a HONDA and live forever."

 

Actually I would say our handling is BELOW average. Solid axle rear suspension in a FWD car is just unexcusable. I really hate the way my car handles.

 

From an overall handling perspective incl weight there's little comparision. Civics rock
I hate to admit it but in Street Touring it is THE CAR to have for the past couple years.

Heck, this weekend's Natl Tour in Indiana finished out like this. (Reads like a spec class)

1 90 Honda Civic Si Heyward Wagner
2 89 Honda Civic Si White Andy Hollis
3 89 Honda Civic SI Black Dan Meller
4 89 Honda Civic Si White Tad Kaminski
5 89 Honda Civic Si White Doug Allen
6 90 Honda Civic White Robert Seelig
7 89 Honda Civic Red Colin Fiedler
8 89 Honda Civic Red Prim Craig Mankiewicz
9 90 Honda Civic SI Red Kevin Mcilvain
10 90 Honda Civic Si Mitch Wagner
11 00 Toyota Celica Gts Whit Ryan Barnard
12 03 Toyota Celica White Troy Howland
13 89 Honda Civic Red/Yello Bruno Tabacchi

Sure you can mod the Maxima's handling but same goes for Honda/Acura. In fact lots of good parts probably trickled down from the NSX, and Integra TypeR. Until the 350Z neither Nissan/Infiniti had a killer performer here in the U.S.

Your friend has tons of aftermarket support too.
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/02civicsi.html
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/civicsi.html

 

this is rediculous....of course I have full suspension, awesome tires, and LTB, and subframe connectors....although haven't installed the LTB or subframes yet....I can out handle any civic si I have encountered....a lot of them with fully modded suspension...and these are autocross guys....I think it is more....that a lot of maxima guys buy the wrong suspension....tune it wrong, then run some heavy wheels with less that great tires and then on top of it run the wrong psi...and then on top of all that, not know how to specifically drive a FWD sedan properly....there is a reason why I am even with 300zx twin turbo's in canyons...and fully suspension modded MR2's in autocrossing...but it's all things considered...and just practice practice practice moreover!

my buddy's coilovered integra gsr posses no real threat too me on streets of willow!

 

Fully suspensioned MR2s pose no threat?? These cars are great handling vehicles to begin with, I would think they are deadly with some upgrades to the handling department.

I would say a 3rd Gen Maxima would own the 4th Gen easily in handling, just because of the independent rear suspension. Our cars stock, SUCK, plain and simple. Huge wheel gap that floats more than any boat I've seen, that poor beam in the back isn't going to make matters any better. But with a few suspension upgrades the car does come alive better.

Hanging with 300ZXTT and MR2s?? That I don't know of, maybe those drivers are newbies or maybe your hanging with N/A MR2s. I just don't see a properly equipped 300ZXTT or MR2 not being able to run away from a modified Maxima, through the twisties. Those two cars are a hell of a lot more nimble than a Maxima will ever be. And I can understand the Integra GSR not running away from you, the Max has enough power to keep up.

 

our stock suspension blows...

 

i agree our suspension is below avg remember this was the top of the line for nissan.

when i bough my car i was hoping better suspension when i noticed the rear beam i was dissapointed even my old 91 accord has idependent rear set up very good btw for the 2 years i drove the car it was very resposive in stock set up

i don't know why our suspension is so bad cuz even stock is not that comfortable and when you mod it it feels way to stiff
right now i'm using agx 2/3 on stock se spring even in 1/1 the ride is horrible i wish theres a way to fix this

btw agx,stock se springs,ES bushing(all),new control arms,new sway bar links,new oem struts, new boots,alignment(4 times) new tires new inner and outer tie rods, new struts bearings

 

I wouldn't trust one word you say simply because you have possibly the worst grammar I've ever seen. Is that one sentence?

 

as for the SI outhandlin the max i bet my money on the Si anyday not to mention the king of comfort and handling BMW M3
had the opportunity to drive my boos M3 2 months ago all i have to say that thing with just a few mods is a beast right now is putting 425 at the wheels on stock suspension(theres no need to unless going to compete) hope some day to buy a car half that good

 

Wheel gap, beam, and all, the 4th gen SE outhandles the 3rd gen SE in both slalom and lateral g's. The only advantage the 3rd gen has is that it can handle transition bumps better, but keep in mind we're not RWD so hitting bumps in mid corner isn't near as eventful as dealing with it when you're driving an F-Body or Stang (ie liveaxle rear). The beam axle in the Maxima is a torsion beam with trailing arms, coil over shocks, and a lateral link that keeps perfect camber thru the turns. This isn't the same kind of beam axle you'll find in a minivan. The biggest downside to the beam is that it does give up some ride quality. The reknowned handling Golf GTI and all Golfs use torsion beams.

Does the 4th gen's handling suck compared to the Civic Si? That's debatable because on paper they generate the same kind of handling numbers. The Hondas are far more composed during manuvers though.

With H&Rs, adjustable struts, subframe connectors, and sticky tires (most important), my Maxima has some pretty amazing handling and I feel the only thing really holding my car back is the steering ratio. Would it own a modified Civic in the auto-X? Doubtful because the Civics are smaller and are far easier to manuver in tight courses. Many of my friends own modified Civics and Del Sols and those cars do handle quite well and their small size and good steering allows you to point and shoot them anywhere.

 

I'm running agx rear on set 6 with Stillen bolt on sway bar and new SE springs and GR2 stock springs on front and I find that for FWD this setup is tolerable( coming from RWD GTO66,67/Chevelle70 days).It is FWD so there is trade offs in handling based on this.However,for the given price of the car (compared to a Lexus 300 or Audi 2.8) the max has a lot to offer,if your willing to mod it's default.......

 

Our Max's suspension/handling isn't too bad, but as the majority of the people on here have done, they have modded the suspensions and have even lowered for better response. If you were comparing stock Si to stock Max, then I'd have to go w/ the Si, but put the Si against an Altima 2.5S, then the 2.5S would get my vote

 

The problem with our suspension is the rear beam. It's great as long as road doesn't have anybumps in it. But once it start just getting a little bit bumpy your rear end will tend to kick out like ****. So yeah another thing is the stock suspension sucks major ***, third of all front of the car is significantly heavier then the back. On the braking I hate the way the car feels, but when I start coming out of the apex rear end gets weight trasfered to the back so it stays put.

Stock to stock suspension SI will kill max.

 

i agree 10x

also i dont think the weight of our car really helps as far as providing crisp handling. even tho our car is lighter than alot of cars in/out of our class, when hitting turns it feels very heavy. the chasis of our car doesnt really feel solid IMO also, unless it is an isolated incident wih my car. i feel the body flex significantly just under medium light turns. my car (not the dash) creaks and moans also when hitting turns as if it isnt that solid.i think our car can out handle other cars in our class but the civic si is a nice lil car when it comes to handling, i actually enjoy driving it around the various back roads out in my area, if only it came with the h22 engine, that would be a kick *** car.

 

If it came with the H22 engine it would handle significantly worse than it does with the B16.

 

first and foremost, the 300ZX TT is 3600lbs in curb weight not including driver..which makes a tremendous difference in the handling department...!!!just look at the new lotus elise slated to arrive in the US shortly, under 2000 pounds and only 195 width tires...that are by far not the most grippy out there....then why is being heralded as possibly the best handling car to ever be produced and sold in the US shores by all the magazines? simple...weight...or I should say lack thereof....secondly...the modded MR2 IS driven by a novice auto X driver...so I will give him that...but the weakest point of our maxima's is not so much as the beam axle as you think it is...anyone who has taken their 4th gen to the track has learned this, it is simply chassis rigidity and weak suspension tuning stock....properly tuned....our cars with a 5spd are rather light and if you fix the weakest link which is shockingly not the beam axle....(ie. aforementioned lack of chassis rigidity) then our cars are gold! I have been to the track with one other 3rd gen SE '94....with full tokico suspension....struts beautifully dialed in and tire pressures dialed in as well...they do not do as well over the 4th gen as one may think...suprisingly...where they do kill us is street handling....ie. imperfect roads....this is where all wheel independent suspension does wonders....going to a properly paved..smooth track....and the benefits of such a suspension are far less prominent over the 4th gen setup....

 

Hondas have that upper control arm as far as i can see. they can keep their better stock handling. Have you ever seen a honda with a rim wider then 7.5??? Ill take my suspension system over a hondas any day.

 

Yeah that sucks if you want to run in the straight line, but you will still have hard *** time trying to catch a hatch with just shocks and springs on the track.

 

uhhhhhhhhh wrong. another ingnorant person. Just because it got bigger displacment it doesn't mean that it weight alot more. I don't rememeber the weight difference but it's missarable, it like 30-45 pound in the whole swap. Plus h22 has to sit lower then any b series in a civic. Nothing that some different spring rates won't fix.

 

maxima stock handling isn't bad considering that the max is a lifted sedan.

you can jack a SI so easily. don't bother with that dude.

 

well it depends wat you plan to do wit the max. if u drive around town and buy groceries, then its fine. its nice and comfy, handles the road and has enough ground clearence to ford small rivers.( that was a joke) but if u take a family sedan and put it in the hands of some of us on this forum then its not good enough to handle wat we want it to do.but i say if u mod for mod a si may out handle a max but then it may also depend on tranny and drivers.

 

I agree with michaelnyden....if you stiffen up the max's chassis and get some sticky tires, it significantly improves handling. I've never seen another car that had as much improvement from a FSTB as my max. From the factory, the frame is way to sloppy.
Drop it a bit and get adjustable shocks...and now you've got a fun car to drive.
(P.S. Sub-frame connectors are on my list!)

 

I dont understand this... Every honda i have ever seen handles like crap. Some may be fast but thats only in a straight line. If we are comparing hatchbacks then i would rather have a VW or a Mini over a honda. Im not much for 1/4 mile anyway... I see it like i see Nascar... pretty much pointless.