kyb gr-2's ALL STRUTS?
08-26-2004, 07:11 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 127
kyb gr-2's ALL STRUTS?
I ordered KYB gr-2's from ebay. Got them about a week ago. When i was going around to different shops to get estimates to get them installed some where telling me that they are struts in the front and the rear. Is this true? What i got from ebay was struts for upfront and shocks for the rears.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT
Will this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT
Will this work?
08-26-2004, 07:27 AM
#4
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The difference between struts and shocks is that struts are a load bearing suspenison part, as in the car could not be driven without them. Shocks are not a load bearing part, a car could be driven without them although it may be a rough ride, shocks don't support the load of the vehicle.
08-26-2004, 07:30 AM
#5
Originally Posted by usmcbigguns
I ordered KYB gr-2's from ebay. Got them about a week ago. When i was going around to different shops to get estimates to get them installed some where telling me that they are struts in the front and the rear. Is this true? What i got from ebay was struts for upfront and shocks for the rears.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT
Will this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT
Will this work?
The rears are not struts because by design the wheel is supported by the trailing arm/beam assembly. The rear coilover assembly supports the trailing arm/beam assembly but not the wheel directly.
Struts aren't called "struts" because there is a spring sitting atop the damper; thats a misconception. Go look look at a pre-88 Honda Civic/pre 90 Acura Integra front suspension. Their front STRUT suspension doesn't even have a coilspring; they use torsion bars. The rears are not "struts" because the wheel/hub is bolted to the trailing arm/beam.
How the wheel is attached to the suspension determines what a damper is referred too. Anytime a coil is sitting atop a damper the assembly is called a coilover.
08-26-2004, 07:43 AM
#6
Originally Posted by VeeQueue
The rears are not struts because by design the wheel is supported by the trailing arm/beam assembly. The rear coilover assembly supports the trailing arm/beam assembly but not the wheel directly.
Since, according to you, they aren't struts?
08-26-2004, 08:04 AM
#7
Originally Posted by mzmtg
So you're saying the car could be driven without the rear damper assemblies in place?
Since, according to you, they aren't struts?
Since, according to you, they aren't struts?
08-26-2004, 09:02 AM
#8
Originally Posted by VeeQueue
Sigh, again its how the wheel is supported/located. If you remove the rear damper assembly the body will be sitting on top of the tire/wheel but it the wheel will still be upright. If you still want to believe the rear damper assembly is still a "strut" I suggest you grab an old automotive HS textbook or do a search online if you need more clarification because obviously I cant help.
From this page: http://www.monroe.com/tech_support/tec_faq.asp#1
Q: What is the difference between shock absorbers and struts?
A. Struts and shocks are very similar in function, but very different in design. The job of both is to control excessive spring motion; however, struts are also a structural component of the suspension. Struts can take the place of two or three conventional suspension components and are often used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes.
A. Struts and shocks are very similar in function, but very different in design. The job of both is to control excessive spring motion; however, struts are also a structural component of the suspension. Struts can take the place of two or three conventional suspension components and are often used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes.
Tom: What's the difference between a strut and a shock absorber? About a hundred bucks, Gregory.
Ray: "Shock absorbers" are physically separated from the car's springs. A "strut," on the other hand, is a shock absorber with a spring that fits around it. Struts are common these days because they save space. But they cost more because the springs have to be removed before the "shock absorber" part of the strut can be replaced. And removing springs is a job that requires special tools--most importantly, a Bronko Nagurski football helmet!
Ray: "Shock absorbers" are physically separated from the car's springs. A "strut," on the other hand, is a shock absorber with a spring that fits around it. Struts are common these days because they save space. But they cost more because the springs have to be removed before the "shock absorber" part of the strut can be replaced. And removing springs is a job that requires special tools--most importantly, a Bronko Nagurski football helmet!
Shock absorbers and struts are quite similar in some ways. They both dampen the bounce of the tire and stabilize the vehicle.
McPherson Struts, however, are an integral part of the front and/or rear suspension of the vehicle. The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking.
Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar. They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment. Also, if broken will not keep the vehicle from being driven.
A broken McPherson strut may keep the vehicle from being driven because of the potential loss of steering control.
Struts are much more expensive than shocks because they are more a part of the vehicle and take the place of many components that must be used in the conventional front suspension.
McPherson Struts, however, are an integral part of the front and/or rear suspension of the vehicle. The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking.
Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar. They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment. Also, if broken will not keep the vehicle from being driven.
A broken McPherson strut may keep the vehicle from being driven because of the potential loss of steering control.
Struts are much more expensive than shocks because they are more a part of the vehicle and take the place of many components that must be used in the conventional front suspension.
I think it's pretty clear that our cars have struts at all 4 corners, with McPherson type struts up front.
08-26-2004, 10:49 AM
#9
Originally Posted by mzmtg
I think it's pretty clear that our cars have struts at all 4 corners, with McPherson type struts up front.
Ray: "Shock absorbers" are physically separated from the car's springs. A "strut," on the other hand, is a shock absorber with a spring that fits around it.
How reliable can cartalk.com be if they cant even elaborate in detail the various strut types. Ok so a strut to this Ray guy is a "shock absorber with a spring that fits around it." First off since he's describing a Macpherson strut assembly (The car in question is a 86 Celica therefore he is) then his description is wrong since the coilspring sits ON TOP not "fit around it". By that definition there is no spring perch on the Celica's strut (which there is). And if its "around" the spring then its not physically attached now is it? If he is referring to the cartridge then he shouldve mentioned that but I dont think so. However if you look at the first line and say well again shocks are "physically seperated" then why cause all this confusion with using the word "around" vs " on top"?
When these articles mention "structural" they are basically saying "whats holding up the wheel?" On our front supension the damper is called a strut because the wheel bolts onto the strut via knuckle which is directly bolted onto the strut tower. There are no other suspension pieces supporting the wheel. the lower control arm "locates"/positions it but the damper itself is the main member. The damper/knuckle is considered a unit. If you remove this unit there is no way to position/locate the wheel.
"main structural" suspension member does not always have to apply to the verical plane but also horizontal plane. Look at truck suspensions rigid axles, our own 4th gen maximas etc.
On our rear suspension what is holding the wheel is the beam. You used the example by removing the coilover assembly. If you do that in the rear the wheels are still located by the beam/trailing arm. Use the 3rd generation Maxima as an example.
What seperates the rear suspension of the 3rd gen vs. 4th gen? Why are 3rd gen rear suspensions called "strut suspensions" and the rear of the 4th gen suspensions are called "beam suspensions" They both have coilover assemblies in the back, right? The difference is the rear wheels are bolted directly to the coilover assembly and this same assembly is the main member. If you remove the coilover assembly on the 3rd gen there is no way to bolt the wheel to the car.
On our cars the beam w/ fixed trailing arms is the MAIN suspension assembly in the rear. If you remove the coilover assembly on a 4th gen the beam/trailing the wheel is still attached to the car via the beam.
Same thing w/ Hondas/Acuras (I used to own Honda/Acuras.) People call 88-00 Civic/ 90-01 Integra front suspension coilover dampers as "Struts". Its coilover assembly has the same look (coil sitting on the damper) But the front suspension is called an unequal length/ a-arm suspension because the wheel is held up by the upright aka knuckles located by an upper arm and a lower arm. Yes, the coilover assembly does keep the body off the wheel but it is not a structural member.
The problem lies with the many definitions out there (what holds the car up etc). Obviously the coilsprings (and dampers if its a coilover assembly) hold up the car because without them the body will be sitting on the floor. To accurately determine whats what you have to look at the entire suspension as a whole and how the wheel is bolted/located.
If i can get my scanner to work I will scan some textbook pages or something if you'd like further clarification. I know you cant take my word for it that the rear coilover assembly on 4th gen Maximas isn't a "strut" .
yes, its boring at work today
08-26-2004, 11:08 AM
#11
Originally Posted by mzmtg
The bottom line is that the rear damper assembly is a structural suspension member. The suspension does not support the body if it is missing.
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
Omg ok fine I give up lol.
08-26-2004, 11:55 AM
#13
easy answer to an easy question come on people sometimes you get so confusing with your answers
pic of fronts and rears
plus info on how to install
pic of fronts and rears
plus info on how to install
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