Those who had only WSP stage 1 SFCs and then went to stage 2
12-05-2004, 01:11 PM
#1
Those who had only WSP stage 1 SFCs and then went to stage 2
Question for those of you who had stage 1 subframe connectors and then decided to upgrade to stage 2, or for those of you who have removed stage 2 at some point and compared it to just stage one. I need to get SFCs for my new max and since I had stages 1 and 2 installed at the same time on my other car I don't know how much each stage did to stiffen the chassis, just that I know I loved the result of what I had installed. anyone have any input?
12-18-2004, 07:23 PM
#2
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 285
I'm interested in this too, but more because I'm scared of screwing around with the b-pipe to install stage 2&3 and getting rubbing that would cause a lot of noise. Also, I actually called Warpspeed twice to order them. I think the first time was early August, and the second time early September. Neither time did they have them available because they said they were reworking them. They're definitely my next mod when I feel like spending the dough.
12-22-2004, 09:54 AM
#4
I bought both stages but installed Stage 1 first. I did notice a difference Stage 2 made after it was installed. On washboard surfaces there is less vibration felt. Its not a huge leap from Stage 1.
Stage 1 provided the most noticeable difference.
bhmax: I had issues with the cat/bpipe flange hitting the stage 2 crossbars when it was first installed. It would bang when I drive and hit bumps and take corners hard, etc. I took the car back to the muffler shop and the guy used a machine to bend the lateral bar in the center slightly to give clearance for the b-pipe and the flange. The diagonal bars bolt onto the lateral bar fine. I do rub the lateral bar every once in awhile traversing over driveways and oversized speedbumps if I dont slow to a crawl and go at an angle but the exhaust pipe never hits the stage 2 bars. I dont think it compromised the rigidity much if at all because I felt no difference after they bent the lateral bar.
Stage 1 provided the most noticeable difference.
bhmax: I had issues with the cat/bpipe flange hitting the stage 2 crossbars when it was first installed. It would bang when I drive and hit bumps and take corners hard, etc. I took the car back to the muffler shop and the guy used a machine to bend the lateral bar in the center slightly to give clearance for the b-pipe and the flange. The diagonal bars bolt onto the lateral bar fine. I do rub the lateral bar every once in awhile traversing over driveways and oversized speedbumps if I dont slow to a crawl and go at an angle but the exhaust pipe never hits the stage 2 bars. I dont think it compromised the rigidity much if at all because I felt no difference after they bent the lateral bar.
12-22-2004, 10:02 AM
#5
Originally Posted by VeeQueue
bhmax: I had issues with the cat/bpipe flange hitting the stage 2 crossbars when it was first installed. It would bang when I drive and hit bumps and take corners hard, etc. I took the car back to the muffler shop and the guy used a machine to bend the lateral bar in the center slightly to give clearance for the b-pipe and the flange. The diagonal bars bolt onto the lateral bar fine. I do rub the lateral bar every once in awhile traversing over driveways and oversized speedbumps if I dont slow to a crawl and go at an angle but the exhaust pipe never hits the stage 2 bars. I dont think it compromised the rigidity much if at all because I felt no difference after they bent the lateral bar.
12-22-2004, 03:28 PM
#7
correct.. take it to a muffler shop that has a 4 post drive-on lift. DO NOT have it done by one that lifts from the frame of the car- it flexes the frame and the last thing you want to do is stress the unibody and then weld on the SFCs.. you'll end up with doors that don't close smoothly and all kinds of other nasty issues.
as for the differences between stage I and II, I felt a noticeable difference with the Stage II on the car, but I think the stage I was about 70% of the total benefit. I would still say both sections are worth their money though. I was VERY pleased with the differences they make.
Just be sure you're not auto X ing and plan to stay in a street touring class... the stage II section will throw you into SM or SP classes.
as for the differences between stage I and II, I felt a noticeable difference with the Stage II on the car, but I think the stage I was about 70% of the total benefit. I would still say both sections are worth their money though. I was VERY pleased with the differences they make.
Just be sure you're not auto X ing and plan to stay in a street touring class... the stage II section will throw you into SM or SP classes.
12-22-2004, 06:11 PM
#11
Ive been thinking about these, but I really dont want the added weight. I was leaning tward filling the frame/body with foam to achieve the same effect with far less weight. OF course the foam is a PITA to work with and costs about the same. But if i get the correct density then the results will be close to the WS connectors.
How much do the SF connectors weight?
How much do the SF connectors weight?
12-22-2004, 07:51 PM
#14
Originally Posted by vsamoylov
so is it worth it to get stage 2 or is stage 1 enough?
12-23-2004, 09:06 AM
#15
The weight gain is nothing compared to the handling benefits these provide.. want to lose the 35lb out of the car? lose the beer gut (if you look like me anyway). get lighter wheels. get a lighter battery. remove your sunroof.
weight isn't the only critical number in a car's performance... learning to drive better will shave more time and speed than losing 35lb will.
weight isn't the only critical number in a car's performance... learning to drive better will shave more time and speed than losing 35lb will.
12-25-2004, 01:50 PM
#19
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by bhmax
Also, I actually called Warpspeed twice to order them. I think the first time was early August, and the second time early September. Neither time did they have them available because they said they were reworking them.
01-17-2005, 10:37 AM
#26
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I ran my car both ways, Stage I and Stage II and then jsut Stage I. Honestly, I could not feel a huge difference at all. Stage I was a night and day difference though. I left my Stage II off for the remainder of ownership because it made underbody accessibility much easier. For most people, I think Stage I will suffice. Stage II would probably help a lot if you welded it all together, but then how would you get access to the exhaust 
01-23-2005, 01:30 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 994
i just started another thread asking about these before i stumbled across this one. basically im wondering on what the biggest difference is as far as the overall driving experience. i really dont care about the handling impovments, just wondering if anyone can verify if these sfc helped to eliminate some squeaks and such in the car, and how much did the ride of the car suffer.. when i say ride, i mean like when you guys are hitting bumps. would u say it is a much more stiff and uncomfortable ride ? i had a rsb, and fstb on my old max, with h&r's, kyb's and 18's.. i learned to hate the ride i got from all that.. on this car now all i have is the springs and struts with 18's (that i may be downsizing soon).. if i put these on am i gonna be thrown around in the car when i hit potholes more than i already do? are they going to get rid of alot of these little squeaks and rattles inside the car?? any help appreciated
01-23-2005, 02:34 PM
#31
Originally Posted by kevlo911
Man I hope it is cheaper than that.
And Dave B, the guy putting mine in actually asked me if I wanted the cross pieces welded to the frame.. somehow not realizing that it would then be impossible to get to the exhaust..
01-23-2005, 04:26 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Stuntin' 101
i just started another thread asking about these before i stumbled across this one. basically im wondering on what the biggest difference is as far as the overall driving experience. i really dont care about the handling impovments, just wondering if anyone can verify if these sfc helped to eliminate some squeaks and such in the car, and how much did the ride of the car suffer.. when i say ride, i mean like when you guys are hitting bumps. would u say it is a much more stiff and uncomfortable ride ? i had a rsb, and fstb on my old max, with h&r's, kyb's and 18's.. i learned to hate the ride i got from all that.. on this car now all i have is the springs and struts with 18's (that i may be downsizing soon).. if i put these on am i gonna be thrown around in the car when i hit potholes more than i already do? are they going to get rid of alot of these little squeaks and rattles inside the car?? any help appreciated
01-23-2005, 05:00 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by VQuick
You have nothing to worry about. A stiffer chassis means a better ride, almost definitely. A stiffer chassis allows the suspension to work better. The car will feel more sold, and you should have noticeably less vibration and rattling. Lately, all auto manufacturers have been going to great lengths to stiffen the chassis of their cars, from the new Corvette to luxury cars, so that tells you it improves both handling and ride quality.
01-23-2005, 05:44 PM
#34
No, I do not have SFCs yet but they are very high priority on my mod list...
If you ask me, your #1 problem is your 18s. On NYC roads that's gonna be rough. But if you get SFCs, no matter what your setup, everything I've read suggests the ride and feel of the car will improve drastically.
Read these threads if you don't believe me:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs (esp the last post)
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs (entire thread has excellent info)
Especially note the following:
If you ask me, your #1 problem is your 18s. On NYC roads that's gonna be rough. But if you get SFCs, no matter what your setup, everything I've read suggests the ride and feel of the car will improve drastically.
Read these threads if you don't believe me:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs (esp the last post)
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....highlight=sfcs (entire thread has excellent info)
Especially note the following:
Originally Posted by Smokin' X-press
Finally got the subframe connectors Stage 1 and 2 installed on Friday. My suspension mods prior to this included Eibach, Tokico Blue, FSB and RSB. Anyone with a similar set up would concur that the ride was really bumpy esp going over pot holes, bumps or ruts in the road etc. Well all that crappy feeling is gone after the install of the SFCs. The ride quality is totally different...the car feels a lot more calm and composed when going over bad roads. It feels that the suspension is way well balanced and configured to the car's chassis. I made it a point to drive on bad roads after this to see how it felt and all that shaking and creaking that used to come on driving on bad roads is gone. For the $375 I spent on the parts and install, I think this is probably my best suspension/handling mod ever.
Originally Posted by Dave B
Now adding SFCs made the car handle even better because there is far less movement in the body of the car. Stiff chassis always equals better handling and better ride quality. There's a reason auto makers strive for the stiffest chassis. Stiff chassis also mean you can run softer suspensions and get good handling numbers. BMW typically runs very soft springs and firm struts in most of their cars because their chassis' are so stout. GM was able to run 25% softer struts and springs in the C5 because the chassis was so much more rigid.
The only vehicle you want to have a flexible chassis is a 4X4 rock crawler.
The only vehicle you want to have a flexible chassis is a 4X4 rock crawler.
01-23-2005, 07:25 PM
#38
Also I came across this today. It's a more concise explanation.
"In any high-performance car, it is impossible to make the chassis too stiff. The stiffer the chassis, the higher its natural frequency, making the energy imparted to it by bumps less likely to excite the body's structure. A stiffer chassis enables the use of stiffer springs and shocks without hurting the ride. This is because a stiff, non-flexing chassis transfers more force into the suspension where it can be dissipated by the springs and shocks instead of transferring the force to the occupants. A stiff chassis is also more responsive to roll rate tuning for balancing understeer and oversteer. This is one of the reasons why automotive engineers are continually investigating ways to stiffen chassis without adding weight."
From http://sportcompactcarweb.com/projec...scc_proj300zx/
Yeah, I can't WAIT to get SFCs on my Max.
"In any high-performance car, it is impossible to make the chassis too stiff. The stiffer the chassis, the higher its natural frequency, making the energy imparted to it by bumps less likely to excite the body's structure. A stiffer chassis enables the use of stiffer springs and shocks without hurting the ride. This is because a stiff, non-flexing chassis transfers more force into the suspension where it can be dissipated by the springs and shocks instead of transferring the force to the occupants. A stiff chassis is also more responsive to roll rate tuning for balancing understeer and oversteer. This is one of the reasons why automotive engineers are continually investigating ways to stiffen chassis without adding weight."
From http://sportcompactcarweb.com/projec...scc_proj300zx/
Yeah, I can't WAIT to get SFCs on my Max.
01-23-2005, 08:19 PM
#40
i think I will head up there this summer and have all 3 stages installed and have them fix my exhuast. I need to install my headers first. But it looks like you can still get to your exhuast with these installed from the photos.