Stock MIDpipe Vs. Frankencar Midpipe Dyno Inside
#81
Originally Posted by michaelnyden
I just tried the swap as well...only took it around the block....(I have the frankencar with apexi filter)....sound is competely gone now...so I can listen to the exhaust more...didn't notice till now how wierd the WSP mandrel y pipe sounds...and I have a resonated b pipe from them too....still sounds kinda raspy or buzzy in a way....but it's suddle....of course to me suddlety is always magnified!!! low end seems remarkably better....didn't get a chance to really open it up to see the top end...maybe I should compare maf data...of before and after using my auterra...
#82
Originally Posted by super6
i actually feel like i lost some low end, my car used to pull damn hard even at 3000, well not damn hard but hard for low rpms. top end seems the same, the aftermarket pipe just looks and sounds so damn good!!!!
#84
I apologize if I missed this but I also think the benefit of the stock midpipe is in the insulation....when testing midpipes on my '93 Altima I had noticed the aluminum midpipe was much warmer inside the tubing than the thicker accordian pipe....That and the fact that I missed the lowend tq more than I cared for the top end pull, esp w/auto gearing....
Jeremy
Jeremy
#86
Originally Posted by TheMax95
I think you guys are putting too much tought behind all of this. For what?....2-3 horsepower?? Whatever, I mean you guys aren't going to feel it when you drive so who cares. My 2cents.
-Paul
-Paul
#88
It does? How?
Originally Posted by super6
what about the fact that the resonator actually drops the velocity within the intake? i would think this would not be a good thing, actually lessoning the ram air effect as someone mentioned here.
#89
Originally Posted by super6
what about the fact that the resonator actually drops the velocity within the intake? i would think this would not be a good thing, actually lessoning the ram air effect as someone mentioned here.
#90
so...this whole thread...is about air intakes...
which we all know add about +/- 5hp and alot of sound...
and no air intake i'm aware of on a maxima ever changed anyone's 1/4 times...
so basically the engineers who made our intakes know more(designed it better) then the aftermarket companies!!! *gasp* who would have thought.
maybe it's me but i think there is WAY to much time thought about air intakes on this forum.
all i see air intakes as are a way of making a car sound fast. while it's really just as slow as it was stock. but hey...it sounds fast right?
which we all know add about +/- 5hp and alot of sound...
and no air intake i'm aware of on a maxima ever changed anyone's 1/4 times...
so basically the engineers who made our intakes know more(designed it better) then the aftermarket companies!!! *gasp* who would have thought.
maybe it's me but i think there is WAY to much time thought about air intakes on this forum.
all i see air intakes as are a way of making a car sound fast. while it's really just as slow as it was stock. but hey...it sounds fast right?
#91
great info!
ok ive been doing some reading, since this topic became very intresting and found this awsome info, this is A+++ stuff! im not even sure i understand all of it, so if someone inteligent would care to elaborate im sure we can all benift!
page...http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ionsystems.pdf
if anyone would like to take the time to read it it is highly infomative. there are actually some formulas (which i am not about to do, lol) you can use to figure out exactly which pipe would be better. plus other info on how a V6 is affected by the resonator.
page...http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ionsystems.pdf
if anyone would like to take the time to read it it is highly infomative. there are actually some formulas (which i am not about to do, lol) you can use to figure out exactly which pipe would be better. plus other info on how a V6 is affected by the resonator.
#93
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
It does? How?
Originally Posted by mzmtg
The carefully calculated volume of the resonator is what creates the ram effect.
but people are right this is a lot of comotion over 1 or 2 extra hp at max! we know those 8 hp claims for an intake gotta be cr@p. maybe ill go back to the berk midpipe just for the look of it.
#94
Originally Posted by super6
i could be wrong, i just figure the smother and longer the pipe the better flow, or velocity. the pipe with the resonator and accordian section seemsto break up the flow, although it may be true that the extra "stored" air may be a benift. honeslty i dont know. if i would i wouldnt be here trying to learn
If tuned right, the oscillations line up with the opening of the intake valves, resulting in the ram effect.
As mentioned earlier, there's more to it than just a perceived flow capacity.
#95
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (89)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 6,255
Disclaimer: This information was provided and based on my dyno which was performed on a dynojet dyno. By no means does this mean that you should throw away your midpipes if you think +/- 5hp is insignificant then keep your midpipe.
This was just ment to inform those who cared.
P.s you can always spend $130 an hour for a dyno like i did and try intake setups back to back if you think this information is inaccurate and wrong but i have another org member who was there and also withnessed this first hand.
This was just ment to inform those who cared.
P.s you can always spend $130 an hour for a dyno like i did and try intake setups back to back if you think this information is inaccurate and wrong but i have another org member who was there and also withnessed this first hand.
#96
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (89)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 6,255
Originally Posted by super6
i could be wrong, i just figure the smother and longer the pipe the better flow, or velocity. the pipe with the resonator and accordian section seemsto break up the flow, although it may be true that the extra "stored" air may be a benift. honeslty i dont know. if i would i wouldnt be here trying to learn
but people are right this is a lot of comotion over 1 or 2 extra hp at max! we know those 8 hp claims for an intake gotta be cr@p. maybe ill go back to the berk midpipe just for the look of it.
but people are right this is a lot of comotion over 1 or 2 extra hp at max! we know those 8 hp claims for an intake gotta be cr@p. maybe ill go back to the berk midpipe just for the look of it.
Remeber this is not ment to tell anyone to do anything, i am just sharing some information i thought would be useful.
#97
Originally Posted by Shift_my vq
Exactly, I didn't want to start this ball rolling. But I'm not a firm believer in any of this. I'm not doubting you get 1 hp more and less air turbulance, but I have a buddy that owns a dyno. And the room for variance in a dyno is much more than people think. I have witnessed a 02 grand am gt stock. Dyno, Get off the dyno. Cool down re strap dyno agin and gain 6 horse power. Same cool down time. Re strap dyno agin and loose 4 horse power and be plus 2 from original. I also think that the fact that he did the stock intake first has something to do with numbers if cool down time was not exact. I personaly use the stock intake with a jwt filter. I'm not doubting the fact, just the numbers.
#98
Dave IMHO, what is the determining factor of the factory resonator? Placement is pretty solid. Can't really change it. But the 3-gen resonator is quite different than the 4-gen version. We just have a hole at the bottom of the accordian tube and a resonator chamber below. 4-gens have a box around the accordian tube and a resonator below. If one were to make their own resonator, should it be bigger than oem, same as oem or smaller?
Originally Posted by Dave B
I too have seen the dyno numbers change 3-4whp on the same car, same day, same dyno, just different pulls. BUT! and a huge but at that is there is a VERY CLEAR difference in the shape of curves with and without the resonator. It's not just an elevated curve. That's the key, not the peak numbers.
#100
As for those of you that don't "feel" anything when going back to the stock resonator, you've got to give the ECU time to learn it's part throttle settings. You're also probably use to the excessive wail and rasp on the midpipe. I've tested every style of intake possible and it's clear that keeping the resonator does improve streetability in terms of part throttle acceleration, tip-in acceleration, and upon entry into a gear at WOT.
#101
Originally Posted by Dave B
As for those of you that don't "feel" anything when going back to the stock resonator, you've got to give the ECU time to learn it's part throttle settings. You're also probably use to the excessive wail and rasp on the midpipe. I've tested every style of intake possible and it's clear that keeping the resonator does improve streetability in terms of part throttle acceleration, tip-in acceleration, and upon entry into a gear at WOT.
#102
Originally Posted by Dave B
As for those of you that don't "feel" anything when going back to the stock resonator, you've got to give the ECU time to learn it's part throttle settings.
-Cyrus
#103
Originally Posted by Vyrus
Under that same premise wouldn't this dyno be illegitimate since sufficient time was not provided for the ECU to adapt to the Frankencar intake?
-Cyrus
-Cyrus
#104
so are dynos not able to measure some hp increases or decreases?
people say the same runs in the same day can vary, because of engine temp, ambient air temp, etc.
is there any chance the dyno graph posted could simply be showing the inability of a dyno to register small increases/decreases based on the idea that each run is 'a little different' ?
people say the same runs in the same day can vary, because of engine temp, ambient air temp, etc.
is there any chance the dyno graph posted could simply be showing the inability of a dyno to register small increases/decreases based on the idea that each run is 'a little different' ?
#106
Originally Posted by krismax
I confused the 350z has no resonator but the g35 does same engine? What does 00-03 maximas have later 3.0 to 3.5?
5.5 gens including the Altima have resonators too. The 5.5 gen guys have noted that the stock intake is what's best at the track and around town.
#107
Keep up the discussion everyone. Until spring I'm done testing on mine but all info meanwhile is welcome. Oh, and I'd kill to just spend $100 per 2-3 hp. I'm already underwater with the Auterra, PDA, manometer, CryO2 kit(s), Apexi, Autospeed subscrip, static vs dyn pressure tests, and battery relocation just for the intake stuff. Santa please bring me some fwtq.
#108
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (89)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 6,255
Originally Posted by BEJAY1
Keep up the discussion everyone. Until spring I'm done testing on mine but all info meanwhile is welcome. Oh, and I'd kill to just spend $100 per 2-3 hp. I'm already underwater with the Auterra, PDA, manometer, CryO2 kit(s), Apexi, Autospeed subscrip, static vs dyn pressure tests, and battery relocation just for the intake stuff. Santa please bring me some fwtq.
i hear you on that i would pay if they could give me more hp and tq.
#109
Originally Posted by Dave B
I've seen dynos of G35 sedans with the stock resonator and then the 350Z non-resonated pipe and there is no difference in power. Just sound. A lot of sedan owners still believe that the 350Z pipe gives them 5hp though. I guess it's hard to suck up your pride and admit that $120 tube didn't do anything I'd venture to say the lack of the resonator on the Z is simply a marketing ploy to make the 350Z sound sweet at WOT.....which it does.
5.5 gens including the Altima have resonators too. The 5.5 gen guys have noted that the stock intake is what's best at the track and around town.
5.5 gens including the Altima have resonators too. The 5.5 gen guys have noted that the stock intake is what's best at the track and around town.
When the 350z pipe went on the g35 the power went up.Thats why im very confused with all of this.
I do know that thing is called a oil seperator on our cars im very sure of that.
#111
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (89)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 6,255
Originally Posted by krismax
Dave i have to say thats why im so confused i was at a dyno and watched them put a z tube on a g35 and it gained around 5 hp every time this was a dynopack known to show very small changes like small sparkplug gap changes and lights commin on in real time .
When the 350z pipe went on the g35 the power went up.Thats why im very confused with all of this.
I do know that thing is called a oil seperator on our cars im very sure of that.
When the 350z pipe went on the g35 the power went up.Thats why im very confused with all of this.
I do know that thing is called a oil seperator on our cars im very sure of that.
#113
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (89)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 6,255
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
The 6th gen is a lot more straight as well, though it does have one resonator, still not as large asd the 4-5.5 g.
this is what my brothers dyno on his 6speed G35 Coupe looked like before Z tube and after Z tube. The stock G35 tube us pretty straight through but does have chambers for sound control. At the time the car was all stock with just intake tubes being changed.
run 002 is stock tube
run 003 is Z tube
For giggles this is my best dyno Vs. his best stock dyno
i have all mods listed in my sig in this dyno
#115
5.5g max has a VERY similar resonator compared to the 3.0, and the 6th gens intake res. is very differen't, that's all I'm saying, trying to understand why different applications are employed and seeing the differences.
#116
...just to update I put the stock resonator back on tonight. Sound is a little quieter but it howls under WOT and sounds 'clearer'...more muscular. The Frankencar midpipe gave it a hollow sound at WOT in the higher rpms. I can also hear the exhaust a little better.
Running cone filter with stock resonator...fyi.
Running cone filter with stock resonator...fyi.
#118
omg i'm so confused, i hear this and that and don't know wht to decide.
lets say you have a y-pipe and the weather is cold for couple months. would a stock w/ k&n filter box be better than lets say place racing cold air intake?
lets say you have a y-pipe and the weather is cold for couple months. would a stock w/ k&n filter box be better than lets say place racing cold air intake?
#119
Originally Posted by g4nismo
omg i'm so confused, i hear this and that and don't know wht to decide.
lets say you have a y-pipe and the weather is cold for couple months. would a stock w/ k&n filter box be better than lets say place racing cold air intake?
lets say you have a y-pipe and the weather is cold for couple months. would a stock w/ k&n filter box be better than lets say place racing cold air intake?
#120
Originally Posted by sryth
Don't worry about which intake to get. The difference is not as grand as you would think. The bottom line is: If you're looking to go fast, spend your money elsewhere.
-Paul