Cobra 13" BBK vs more expensive choices I guess
12-20-2004, 10:13 AM
#1
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Weak sauce. You should get a real kit from TET with AP Racing brakes. Used by 95% of the JGTC cars.
Edit: This is split thread from Geo's 13" Cobra rotor/300z caliper bbk pics. I decided his thread didn't deserve to be whored up. But at the same time, it's an interesting subject. Jeff92se.
12-20-2004, 10:14 AM
#2
WTF???????? Yeah, it only costs about 10 million dollars and won't significantly improve your braking. Spend the difference on upgrading the rears.
Weak sauce.
You should get a real kit from TET with AP Racing brakes. Used by 95% of the JGTC cars.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Weak sauce. You should get a real kit from TET with AP Racing brakes. Used by 95% of the JGTC cars.
12-20-2004, 10:20 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
WTF???????? Yeah, it only costs about 10 million dollars and won't significantly improve your braking. Spend the difference on upgrading the rears.
BTW, upgrading the rears won't do much. Confirmed by the gurus at TET.
12-20-2004, 10:22 AM
#4
Ditto on this setup. Then again I've upgraded the rears. Why won't upgrading the rears work? You should keep the same brake bias if possible.
I've tried both. Just front bbk and front bbk + upgraded rears. Definately upgrad the rears if possible.
I've asked TET about this about 3-4 times. If the front braking on the TET kits increase the front brake so much, then the bias on the fronts is that much more front biased. No way around it. So getting the rears upgraded is highly suggested.
I've tried both. Just front bbk and front bbk + upgraded rears. Definately upgrad the rears if possible.
I've asked TET about this about 3-4 times. If the front braking on the TET kits increase the front brake so much, then the bias on the fronts is that much more front biased. No way around it. So getting the rears upgraded is highly suggested.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Haha, calm down Jeffy boy. The kit is very reasonably priced for what it comes with. The braking is insane! Don't knock it till you've tried it.
12-20-2004, 10:43 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I've asked TET about this about 3-4 times. If the front braking on the TET kits increase the front brake so much, then the bias on the fronts is that much more front biased. No way around it. So getting the rears upgraded is highly suggested.
At low speeds, upgraded rears may "seem" to help. On the track, or when stopping from highspeed runs, it is of no benefit, and can actually make the situation worse.
12-20-2004, 10:47 AM
#6
After a certain point, all that happens is you lock the front brakes. I've tried. it. After upgrading the rears, my braking is much flatter and there is much less front end brake dive. Also most if not all brake makers will suggest balancing the fr/r brake bias anytime a brake change is performed. This is the reason why I upgrade mine and Matt93se went to great lengths to make a kit for the 4gen+ maximas. It's also the reason why there are brake bias adjusters on the market. I fail to see how a severly front biased brake system would be of any additional benefit.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
From their extensive R&D, a rear upgrade won't be of much benefit unless downforce is generated to provide sifficient grip in the rear. The harder you brake, the more weight is transferred to the front, and the lighter the rear gets. The lighter the rear gets, the easier it is to spin out if more braking force is applied to the rear.
At low speeds, upgraded rears may "seem" to help. On the track, or when stopping from highspeed runs, it is of no benefit, and can actually make the situation worse.
At low speeds, upgraded rears may "seem" to help. On the track, or when stopping from highspeed runs, it is of no benefit, and can actually make the situation worse.
12-20-2004, 11:03 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
After a certain point, all that happens is you lock the front brakes. I've tried. it. After upgrading the rears, my braking is much flatter and there is much less front end brake dive. Also most if not all brake makers will suggest balancing the fr/r brake bias anytime a brake change is performed. This is the reason why I upgrade mine and Matt93se went to great lengths to make a kit for the 4gen+ maximas. It's also the reason why there are brake bias adjusters on the market. I fail to see how a severly front biased brake system would be of any additional benefit.
Cobra rotors are a joke.
12-20-2004, 11:56 AM
#8
Um yeah. You want me to post some technical information?
Cobra rotors are a joke huh? Hmm how about some tech info backing that up? They are 13" and plenty strong/thick. But they are heavier than stock rotors.
I fail to see how you can talk ONLY about the front brakes. Your only comment that the cobra bbk was somehow inferior. Yet you don't add any tech info to back that up.
Cobra rotors are a joke huh? Hmm how about some tech info backing that up? They are 13" and plenty strong/thick. But they are heavier than stock rotors.
I fail to see how you can talk ONLY about the front brakes. Your only comment that the cobra bbk was somehow inferior. Yet you don't add any tech info to back that up.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
Think what you want, but there's no way you can compare without trying the AP's. The original point was about front brakes, so that's what i was talking about.
Cobra rotors are a joke.
Cobra rotors are a joke.
12-20-2004, 03:22 PM
#9
Now: Info from StopTech's site.
1) What actually does the braking. Just general info:
Long, long ago in a magazine far, far away, a few renegade brake engineers rallied together to bring forward the following message:
“You can take this one to the bank. Regardless of your huge rotor diameter, brake pedal ratio, magic brake pad material, or number of pistons in your calipers, your maximum deceleration is limited every time by the tire to road interface. That is the point of this whole article. Your brakes do not stop your car. Your tires do stop the car. So while changes to different parts of the brake system may affect certain characteristics or traits of the system behavior, using stickier tires is ultimately the only sure-fire method of decreasing stopping distances.”
However, there’s more to the story. Yes the tires stop the car, but improper brake balance can make a complete mess out of even the best components.
Front and rear bia expainations:
As braking force is continuously increased, one end of the car must eventually break traction. If the front wheels lock up and turn into little piles of molten rubber first we say that the car is “front biased”, as the front tires are the limiting factor for deceleration. In the not-so-desirable situation where the rear tires are the first to lock we say that the car is “rear biased”, but the driver would probably have a few more choice adjectives to add. In either case, however, one end of the car has given up before the other, limiting the ultimate deceleration capability of the car.
Just like the car that pushes its way through corners all day long, a car which is heavily front biased will be slow and frustrating, but relatively easy and benign to drive. On the other hand, like the oversteer monster that people are afraid to even drive around the paddock, a car which is severely rear biased will be a scary, twitchy ride resulting in a bad case of the white-knuckle syndrome. Envision an imaginary co-pilot yanking up on the park brake handle in the middle of every corner, and you begin to get the idea. While a rush to drive at speed, it will be horribly slow on the stopwatch.
The car with perfectly balanced brake bias will, however, be the last one to hit the brakes going down the back straight. By distributing the braking forces so that all four tires are simultaneously generating their maximum deceleration, stopping distance will be minimized and our hero will quickly find his way to victory lane. Just like neutral handling, balanced brake bias is our ticket to lower lap times.
Why just front bbks can be bad: Note that all the bbks available now have big rotors AND a combo of more pistons, larger pistons or both.
The most dramatic front-bias impacts are usually brought about by “big brake kits” which are not properly matched to the intended vehicle. Any time that a bigger front rotor is installed, there is a simultaneous need to decrease the effective clamping force of the caliper (installing smaller pistons is the easiest method) to offset the increased torque created by larger rotor effective radius. The objective is to maintain a constant amount of brake corner output (torque) for a given brake line pressure as Figure 6 illustrates. Unfortunately, too many upgrades do not take this factor into account, and those poor cars end up with both bigger rotors and larger pistons which serve to drastically shift the bias even more forward. While rock-solid stable under braking, stopping distances will go up dramatically.
This is why I run upgraded rear brakes and why Matt93se offers the rear upgrade to the 4gen+ maximas.
Entire article is here:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...erformance.htm
1) What actually does the braking. Just general info:
Long, long ago in a magazine far, far away, a few renegade brake engineers rallied together to bring forward the following message:
“You can take this one to the bank. Regardless of your huge rotor diameter, brake pedal ratio, magic brake pad material, or number of pistons in your calipers, your maximum deceleration is limited every time by the tire to road interface. That is the point of this whole article. Your brakes do not stop your car. Your tires do stop the car. So while changes to different parts of the brake system may affect certain characteristics or traits of the system behavior, using stickier tires is ultimately the only sure-fire method of decreasing stopping distances.”
However, there’s more to the story. Yes the tires stop the car, but improper brake balance can make a complete mess out of even the best components.
Front and rear bia expainations:
As braking force is continuously increased, one end of the car must eventually break traction. If the front wheels lock up and turn into little piles of molten rubber first we say that the car is “front biased”, as the front tires are the limiting factor for deceleration. In the not-so-desirable situation where the rear tires are the first to lock we say that the car is “rear biased”, but the driver would probably have a few more choice adjectives to add. In either case, however, one end of the car has given up before the other, limiting the ultimate deceleration capability of the car.
Just like the car that pushes its way through corners all day long, a car which is heavily front biased will be slow and frustrating, but relatively easy and benign to drive. On the other hand, like the oversteer monster that people are afraid to even drive around the paddock, a car which is severely rear biased will be a scary, twitchy ride resulting in a bad case of the white-knuckle syndrome. Envision an imaginary co-pilot yanking up on the park brake handle in the middle of every corner, and you begin to get the idea. While a rush to drive at speed, it will be horribly slow on the stopwatch.
The car with perfectly balanced brake bias will, however, be the last one to hit the brakes going down the back straight. By distributing the braking forces so that all four tires are simultaneously generating their maximum deceleration, stopping distance will be minimized and our hero will quickly find his way to victory lane. Just like neutral handling, balanced brake bias is our ticket to lower lap times.
Why just front bbks can be bad: Note that all the bbks available now have big rotors AND a combo of more pistons, larger pistons or both.
The most dramatic front-bias impacts are usually brought about by “big brake kits” which are not properly matched to the intended vehicle. Any time that a bigger front rotor is installed, there is a simultaneous need to decrease the effective clamping force of the caliper (installing smaller pistons is the easiest method) to offset the increased torque created by larger rotor effective radius. The objective is to maintain a constant amount of brake corner output (torque) for a given brake line pressure as Figure 6 illustrates. Unfortunately, too many upgrades do not take this factor into account, and those poor cars end up with both bigger rotors and larger pistons which serve to drastically shift the bias even more forward. While rock-solid stable under braking, stopping distances will go up dramatically.
This is why I run upgraded rear brakes and why Matt93se offers the rear upgrade to the 4gen+ maximas.
Entire article is here:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...erformance.htm
12-20-2004, 03:45 PM
#11
Cobra rotors are a joke eh? My lap times would like to argue that point...
Cobra rotors and z32 calipers are not as good as a more expensive and lighter big brake upgrade, but they are definately not useless, and will provide almost the same improvement that a more expensive brake upgrade will, at a fraction of the cost.
Cobra rotors and z32 calipers are not as good as a more expensive and lighter big brake upgrade, but they are definately not useless, and will provide almost the same improvement that a more expensive brake upgrade will, at a fraction of the cost.
12-20-2004, 03:51 PM
#12
Another supporting post from Krismax. He experiences parallel mine (although he has a different rear upgrade, we are both upgraded)
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=343518
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=343518
12-20-2004, 07:54 PM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 283
i have ap racing bbk
i only bought for looks, but when i need it , its there. here is the pics scroll down http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=363463
12-20-2004, 10:14 PM
#15
You really shouldn't let those guys use your screen name. They post ***** the forums advertising TET using your name. Sorta weak. Especially when I was apparently talking directly to them and they don't even reply.
Originally Posted by Triple8Sol
FYI: Previous posts in this thread were TET, not me. I run redneck "Nascrap" inspired Wilwoods anyways hahaha...
12-21-2004, 11:25 AM
#18
Neal, you finally installed the Z32 calipers? See a difference? Ever consider upgrading the rears at some point?
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Cobra rotors are a joke eh? My lap times would like to argue that point...
Cobra rotors and z32 calipers are not as good as a more expensive and lighter big brake upgrade, but they are definately not useless, and will provide almost the same improvement that a more expensive brake upgrade will, at a fraction of the cost.
Cobra rotors and z32 calipers are not as good as a more expensive and lighter big brake upgrade, but they are definately not useless, and will provide almost the same improvement that a more expensive brake upgrade will, at a fraction of the cost.
12-27-2004, 10:43 AM
#20
No I never installed the Z32 calipers, I ruined the calipers by trying to use the maxima fitting in the z32 caliper. I have some other things to do before I think about more involved brake upgrades for my new car. I will just be doing larger front rotors and possibly calipers initially on it.
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