shmad

i downshift (to brake, not to race) all the time. my primary mode of stopping is engine braking. i normally downshift to 3rd, slowly get off the clutch, then downshift into 2nd, slowly let off the clutch, then apply the brakes. i dont rev match at all. so this is bad for the tranny? as in my tranny gonna die tomorrow bad? i just hit 100k on the car, and only 13k of the mileage is mine. should i stop doing this? rev matching to slow down, IMO, seems to be counterproductive to slowing down. should i keep downshifting?

aznprid972

iTrader: (26)

you're burning your clutch a lot more this way. i rather pay for new brakes than a new clutch. at least rev match while you down shift

ewuzh

iTrader: (20)

Goodness, please rev match if you're going to downshift. It's not necessarily bad for the tranny. It's bad for your clutch! You're putting a lot more wear on it than normal. I would say double the normal rate of wear.

Chunger

iTrader: (1)

You are heading for head work: valve stem seal wear.

I'll make it simple... Brake pads are cheaper than a headjob.

Mr.Duck

iTrader: (8)

its actually bad for your tranny also, by rev-matching you will be saving a lot of pressure off of the syncros

dayglo

i think rev matching is good for trani and the engine coz it matches the two up doesnt it? its pretty hard imo :\ im new at it though
i also brake mostly instead of gearing down except going 50mph, then i down shift a gear then brake the rest of the way

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

its not bad for the clutch or the tranny. acceleration is alot more stress than deceleration. it helps to match the revs though because its smoother.

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

the syncros are what line the gears in the tranny up...they never have any stress on them...they are not a bearing or gear...they sit inbetween the gears and when you shift they move the gears just ever so slightly so they line up. for example...put your car in first gear. feel that first little click before it is all the way in...that is the gear hitting the syncro before it attaches to the other gear. in no way shape or form will downshifting stress out a syncro.

Bobo

I've been downshifting a manual transmission for 35 years and have never had a problem. Granted I would never do it at high rpm's. I have 57,700 miles on my OEM brake pads, mostly highway driving, and they will probably see at least 85,000 miles before they're changed as they still have 40% plus to the wear indicator.

ewuzh

iTrader: (20)

Well you rev match the downshift though right?

Bobo

I never heard the term until I got on this thread. I just drive the car. When I downshift the revs do go up, but not much, maybe 1,000 rpm at the most, and I probably never do it at speeds in excess of 30 to 40 mph after I've eased off the gas when coming to a stop light. I have a limited-slip differential if that matters.

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

Rev-matching saves your synchros, double-clutching will save your tranny. But you don't have to rev-match all the time. Only when you must slow down your car aggressively for any reason, usually done when racing or when you are entering a turn really fast. Engine braking will keep you from loosing control thus you need to rev-match and downshift.

*spell-checked*

maximazation

iTrader: (11)

i dont downshift anymore, just to save gas.

1FSTMAX

iTrader: (29)

ummm why downshift? Last time I checked our cars have brakes to stop the car!

90stanza

i down shift out of habit i usauly stop after third and just use the brakes

shmad

ive downshifted for braking ever since i started driving manual, and nobody has ever told me to do otherwise. when i was revmatching earlier today, it was totally counterproductive to slowing down. before, as i would let off the gas and downshift, the car would slow down considerably. now, when revmatching, the car barely slows down (as expected). revmatching=no help in braking.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well can yo do it? Sure. Given our trannies are like glass, I'd rather replace pads than clutches, diff and input shaft bearings. But that's just me I guess.

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

Is this the first time you ever did it........if so you need more practice. And noone ever nails it during the first few attempts. Down-shifting is a good way to slow your car down while keeping control of it. It's not to replace braking like some people perceive it. Ever tried slowing down suddenly by mashing on your brakes then realizing that you are not slowing down quickly enough? So you downshift, rev-matching, and you slow the car down quickly enough so you can apply brakes and stop the car effectively w/o skidding or loosing control.

Just practice some more, work on your reaction time.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Um what? If one has to downshift enough to equal the force of "mashing the brakes", you are going to over rev the engine or tear up the tranny.

Think about it a bit. What can you do faster? Downshift or mash the brakes?

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

I see your point, I know I usually react by braking first. The point of downshifting is not to equal the force of braking. Its to assist in braking aggressively w/o loosing control. But why do most people loose control of their car as they try to brake, especially in the rain? Downshifting helps. You do what you wanna do.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

What again? "aggresive braking with dowshifting"=tear up your tranny.

You think downshifting in the rain helps??? Um yeah. Come on man, think

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

You must think I do this while trying to slow down from 100mph or something. If that method tears up my tranny, then why is my tranny still on original clutch and original input shaft bearing at 137k miles? You do what you do, I do what I do. End of story. Not gonna turn this into a debate.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Note. Whether you downshift or brake in the rain, if you go beyond the traction limits of the tires, you will lose control. I'd say you have less control if you down shift as you don't have the option of letting off the brake.

Go ahead and tear up your tranny.

jblinga

iTrader: (1)

My thoughts exactly!

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

You wish!!! Like I said, my car has 137k miles and still on original clutch and my last tranny check up showed no signs of eminent failure. I guess my method doesn't work huh? And note, I don't enter a turn or decide to brake the last minute, I brake early to even avoid breaking the traction limitation of my car.

Even if I was to ever need transmission work, my homeboy owns a tranny show so labor is free and I only pay for parts at his 40% discount for being a shop.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Then you aren't downshifting enough to brake any amount.

Well goodie for you.

frankd121

iTrader: (1)

rev matching will extend the life of your clutch and put less stress on the syncros. It takes a little practice to get good at it, but its well worth it.

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

Like I said before, downshifting shouldn't replace braking. It does assist in braking. So no, I don't need to downshift to the point where I end up tearing up my transmission. I don't drive my car like its a racecar, unlike many of the guys here.

Bobo

Well given that at least 80% of my 57,700 miles are highway with no downshifting to speak of, and the downshifting I have done, without rev matching, has been done in the city at less than 40 mph and probably closer to 30 mph, I'm not going to get my shorts in a knot. I will just be more careful. My brakes have 40% plus left to the wearbar and I have LSD. So to quote an erudite scholar: What me worry?

SiCkBLaCKMaX99

iTrader: (1)

need some help in the rev matching department any real not sacrcastic pro manual drivers wanna help me out. i have been downshifting while braking around corners only in races and i feel it prob was the reason i blew my first tranny and paid 3800 to fix

HomerMAC

iTrader: (5)

hmm well 2 summers ago i was in india.. and let me tell u about the roads there.. and i noticed the drivers only down shift when comming aorund crazy mountain turns rev match ... also they down shift revmatch when entering city intersections (major junctions) .... but when jsut braking they jsut brake.. and these people drive stick all thier life.. they dont know what an auto tranny is..

they dont apply clutch until the car is like almsot stopped.. and i asked them why do they not press clutch earlier.. ans "we dont want to ride the clutch".. also when asked how come u rev before downshifting.. "becuase on turns or something where u dont want to reallly slow down toomuch .. it helps keep control"

also almost everythign there is rear wheel drive.. so it helps to not have rear wheels run free while in turn...

and i asked several cousins/ taxidrivers/ cbus driver and truck driver.. and they all used manual all their life.. and those were the ans... so does that help...


engine breaking is okay if ur going on highway at 70 and wanna come down a bit i guess.. but slowing down dramatic i would guess u would use the break ...


PS.. i have an AUTO . ... = ) HEH

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

If you race, i would suggest ordinarily drive without downshifting to slow down. Since, I race, I am going to be beating up my tranny anyway, so any help I can give it, I do it. I also double-clutch all the time while in ordinary driving, because I am already into 70k, on a car I bought with 55k on it, with the same clutch. While racing on the other hand, all bets are usually off, but auto-x I'm usually just in 2nd the whole time anyway with very little downshifting to 1st. On the track, the rev-matching makes a difference, so if you want to practice, have at it, but at that point it's a feel thing anyway.

sachmo12345

learn to revmatch its not hard just hit the gas and drop it down i have learned to rev match prefectly 90% of the time. Its also cool cus most people cant do it and it just makes you a little bit better than other manual drivers.

so just go out and practice

azianjiu

iTrader: (4)

it seriously isn't that hard guys, you just stab at the gas before you put the clutch out. After a few times your instinct should just know how much gas to put on it.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

are you talkin about double or single clutching when rev-matching?

ewuzh

iTrader: (20)

I suspect single clutch rev match. All you do extra when you rev match is just hit the gas pedal in between the downshift to get the revs up. Eventually you'll learn how much to press the gas pedal so that the revs match up perfectly to the speed of the lower gear.

azianjiu

iTrader: (4)

a double clutch is the same thing except you first put it in neutral, let out the clutch, rev to the proper rpms, put the cluthc back in, put it into gear, and then let out the clutch again

azianjiu

iTrader: (4)

I have never actually done a double clutch, I think I should try sometime

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

yea ive single - clutched rev-matched alot, but i think what people are trying to say (if im reading correctly) is that this does not do for the tranny what double clutching and revmatching does. am i right?

scrhale

when I think about it ... double clutching seems to do the exact same thing as rev matching. But when I think about it it seems that you rev match OBVIOUSLY on the downshift and double clutch when you after shifting up. I never understood why double clutching is better then just ripping it into the next gear? I was always confused about this stuff. Can anyone correct me cause I know I am wrong somewhere.