2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

thats true.. those muscle cars all you have to do is put intake and headers and get soo much horses... i guess our motors have its limits..

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

More like the stock units were designed very well.

MaxxAddict

LOL. yea! Ford: a little over 200bhp out of 5.0L is HORRIBLE!

On a similar note, one of the disadvantages of a maxima = lack of upgradeability.

sdoherty_tjm

i wasnt saying that you need a better maf, i was saying that why would the ecu have anything to do with the air its letting in. if its all done by equations the ecu doesnt get overloaded, unless the numbers are outside its paramaters, which must be pretty high, since 6 psi of boost would add a 1/4 of the maximum amount of air going through the intake when N/A, and you dont really need to change anything for that amount of boost. so if they were right that something was wrong and you need some better equipment to get power from CAI then it would be more likely an MAF than an ecu. the ecu just needs the numbers, and the maf supplies them. and i was also saying that how much extra air coming wont matter that much, because all the CAI is doing is making the engine get the air it needs. but if you think about it, freeing up intake wouldn't do to much if the exhuast is stock and limits it just as the intake does. so with their logic you would have to counteract every mod with the other end to make it so that everything is all "no limits"

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

The ECU manipulates what the MAF tells it and compensates... A SACF manipulates what the ECU thinks the MAF is telling it.


Chain

----Air----MAF---signal to ECU---> injector cycle delta(a/f compensation)

----Air----MAF---SAFC adjust----signal to ECU---> injector cycle delta(a/f compensation)

MaxxAddict

like the venom 400 chip?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

No one on here has ever had any gains with the Venom 400, unless you count the less weight in their wallets as weight savings.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Anyone else just note the loss in street cred?

MaxxAddict

LOL. my point was doesn't the venom 400 chip screw with the a/f settings and trick the ECU into thinking that more air is coming in?

Or am I confusing different devices?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

noted ...

venom =

SAFC and otehr piggy backs are user adjustable, and are adjusted when A/f readings are plotted accordingly.

This thread is about TS telling us we wont see anything with an intake due to tuning set-backs, and what the ECU does when adding aftermarket induction devices. Thing is, we can get a piggyback fuel converter to adjsut for less than buying an entire new reprogrammes ECU for twice that of a piggyback ....

Unless SR20DEN can get to the West Coast, and talk to Tadashi, then the entire reflash will be worth it, (provided it does show gains), but until then, I'm sticking with the L-spec + SAFC option.


I have dynos when my car was closer to stock, and with each and every mod I've added, it's got more and more lean ... (again on a 3.5L) Hecne why I bought a SAFC


On this forum, we think it's best to stay away from jet and venom

What I just wrote is all 3.5L biased

MaxxAddict

Chill man. I'm learning.

MaxxAddict

VERY interesting.

So, correct me if I am wrong, but I think we have 3 types of ECU "modifications" for maximas:

buy a whole new reprogrammed ECU = JWT, TS

buy a SACF piggybacker = Greddy emanage?

buy a crappy unit which screws with TPS and makes you think you have increased hp = venom 400?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Forget the venom 400.

You forgot an important aspect.

Buy a TS Lspec with extended rev limit, install a separate piggy back for fuel... read my posts

Lspec does nothing for A/F or timing, only rev & speed limit and "throttle flap closing fix"

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Well, I won't agree with that exactly, remember Ford wants you to buy the car. So while the kid that thinks a 5.0 is "rockin like dokken", the insurance company sees a low 200hp number and while more expensive than a max, it's cheaper than a lot of other cars.
Also remember that when Ford was making Cobras it killed a lot of people, they probably intentionally suffocate some power.
Also remember that Ford has a hand in aftermarket parts, so why go big out of the box.
All of us have seen those morons with automatic Corvettes that probably don't ever speed, and Mustangs the same. A good number of people want to THINK their fast, while never actually testing that theory.
Just like the people with SUV's that NEVER take it off-road, WTF is the point of owning one?
Talking big and knowing how to drive big are 2 different things, more people die in a year a of street racing than organized racing.

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

yeah but after the initial stomp on the gas does the stock air box flow as well as a cai? who cares that it holds air...do you know how much air your car uses at WOT? that small amount in the resonator is pulled in and used in less than 1 second when the gas pedal is romped on. so back to the original question...which one flows better?

chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

I just swapped back from injen style CAI to stock midpipe and popcharger and the butt dyno tells me stock midpipe all the way. Low end resposne is much better as we all know who have done this. That plus the fact that the CAI was hot to the touch being made out of aluminum as opposed to stock being plastic. My next step is to build a pipe out of PVC into the fender. IMHO any "CAI" crafted of any kind of metal alloy defeats the purpose of getting cold air.

Majestic

iTrader: (9)

My custom stainless CAI on my old camry was always cool to the touch for some reason.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Funny. I can drive around, stop, open the hood and touch the cai pipe. It's cold to the touch. Plastic will be just as hot and will get soft when hot. Good luck with it.

HomerMAC

iTrader: (5)

ive been thinking about this alot.. instead of the scop that comes up above the radiator.. bend and use soem pipes ainto opening in the bumper or something.. with MESH or something to prevent ... rat... or soemthing form getting in.. at highway speeds wouuld push in some air.. and ofcourse.. get a 00vi .. and a pathfinded TB... and u should get some nice numbers..

2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

im not a fan of cai, i mean for one puddles, and 2, doesnt it take longer for the air to reach the IM?

i have a aluminum midpipe with a filter, basically a shortram intake system, but when i hit the gas, i could feel the car just pulling harder around 4k rpm compared to stock

Ninos_Maxima

iTrader: (5)

maybe they where talking about the midpipe thing, a while ago a guy did a dyno with stock midpipe and aftermarket midpipe, it was a loss of power in midrange I think. cant remember but someone with the search functi0n can find it

dayglo

if the topic has change sry but im posting about the first page's topic

i notice that when i put my short ram on, ill feel a difference. after a while it will feel sluggish like the ecu has adjusted to the airflow. i put my stock box back on and it feels like new again with more pull. i for one think that the ecu does compensate for the amount of air. over a couple of days or something
btw, i noticed this a long time ago...and said to myself ' i think the computer has adjusted itself to save fuel again"
i for one think the ecu would do something like try and save gas and not make use of so much air

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Probably. It's not a huge difference in HP so that should tell you how much better a CAI is in high end HP. Plus, we've seen the dynos of where to HP dropped lower in the high end than with a stock box. This was years ago.


The engine cares.
Do you?



How do you know it's small? One thing I do know that it is constant.


Why ask me the questions? Ask the engineers. I came to this conclusion from reading the info and I'm not going to say they don't know what they're talking about.

I ran my fastest stock time with the stock setup so I guess the stock setup on my car flows better. Damn the flow, it works better.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

It's actually in the low to midrange. It took me a while to see it because I was sold on the fact that it raised the high end HP a bit. I switch back to a modified stock box because I want HP through the band, not just at the high end.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

You mean like a stock air box with a pop charger?

MaxxAddict

HUH? How can that be? Unless you use the bottom end of the air box as an anchor/resting place for the cone filter...

99Automagic

That's the way I have it setup. Left the snorkel and the bottom part of the stock box. It holds my apexi filter in place and I figure it is an extra source of cold air when the car is moving. I personally feel this is a better setup than the completely stock box. When I reverted back to stock from my Frankencar midpipe, I noticed a better low end, but a loss, or a feeling of loss at the high end. So I stuck a cone filter on, mated with the stock midpipe to see the effects. My *** tells me it's pulling harder at high rpms now. So far, this is my favorite. No loss of low end and the engine don't choke at the high end.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Maybe I'm not describing it right, I'll try to take a picture later.

MaxxAddict

interesting. I believe there are two things to consider though:

1. you have an auto. that could be an biasing factor, especially for us 5speeds.

2. Maybe you THOUGHT you lost top end due to the lack of your intake screaming?

Damn, I wish we had access to unlimited dynos comparing the different intake scenarios. Would put all these debates to rest.

MaxxAddict

I think you are confusing terms here. Do mean having a completely stock intake setup except for a cone filter stuck on in place of the airbox?

That setup is called a popcharger.

chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

Maybe its the difference of yours going into the fender away from the engine as opposed to the injen style I had on which is so close to the engine attracting all that heat. I got at it about a half hour after driving yesterday and it was very hot.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Injen = CAI that sits in between exhaust manifold and radiator

99Automagic

1. Yes the lag from an aftermarket intake is very noticable in an auto, hense the go back. NEVER use a AF mid-pipe if you're auto. I'm a firm believer in that now.

2. Maybe...it seemed like it took longer to reach the higher rpms with the stock air box, felt like the engine was choking and not pulling as hard. But as I said "my *** tells me" it's pulling harder.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

No. I had that setup but when totally back to the whole stock setup with some modifications to the stock panel filter box. However, I am running an aftermarket filter for better flow.

MaxxAddict

............

nosispower

How many more intake arguments are we going to have before someone dynos their car with and without an intake?

MaxxAddict

My suggestion:

We nominate someone to do dyno runs with ALL types of intake setups. Obviously we would split the cost and reimburse this fine individual for his days worth of troubles.

99Automagic

No argument here. Just discussing. We kindas veered off in another direction, but still interesting talk none the less.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Interesting talk that has been discussed in great detail, and now, it boecmes like splitting hairs.

Back on track ...

TS wants your money ... when a SAFC-II for 1/2 the pirce will do the same, (relative to the subject of this thread, no we;re not talking rev limiters now)

Now, in defense of TS, what does timing have to do in relation to wot, a/f, etc. ??? This is interesting and has not been discussed thus far.

99Automagic

You sure a SAFC will give you the gains a reprogrammed ecu will? It doesn't do anything more than fix the lean/rich problem. To my understanding, it's the timing advance that gives the gains, which a SAFC cannot do. Please correct me, I'm sure I'm wrong somewhere.

Second thought, The SAFC only cures the "rich" problem. It does nothing for a lean situation. I guess balancing out a rich a/f could get you some gains, but it's very small. At least that was the case for my brother's car. But it's not a max. He also has a bit more options for adjustments because his engine is boosted.