Technosquare's explanation why intakes do NOT work on Maximas...
08-11-2005, 09:03 AM
#81
It does help a lean situation, it adds/takes away from fuel at your request. A/F on MAXIMAS (this is Maxima.org ya know) is typically rich for 4th gens, but the JWT leans it out, almost a bit too much, still it does add power along with the timing advance, some on here have added 20+ fwtq in an automatic 4th gen w/ ONLY the aid of a safc
My pount is--->We're talking about TS telling us that intakes do nothing for hp, when they do, granted tehy could do much more when a/f is adjusted, and thats why tehy want to sell us their ecus, when we can compensate for a/f with a safc-II.
and as far as tioming & a/f is concerned, and their relation, still waiting for some insight on that so that will jsutify more of what TS is telling us.
My pount is--->We're talking about TS telling us that intakes do nothing for hp, when they do, granted tehy could do much more when a/f is adjusted, and thats why tehy want to sell us their ecus, when we can compensate for a/f with a safc-II.
and as far as tioming & a/f is concerned, and their relation, still waiting for some insight on that so that will jsutify more of what TS is telling us.
08-11-2005, 09:09 AM
#83
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
My pount is--->We're talking about TS telling us that intakes do nothing for hp, when they do, granted tehy could do much more when a/f is adjusted, and thats why tehy want to sell us their ecus, when we can compensate for a/f with a safc-II.
It seems that everything that couldn't be done back then can be done and vice versa.
08-11-2005, 09:12 AM
#84
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Originally Posted by deezo
Notice I'm talking about the filter though................... 
Sorry, just being a wiseguy. No harm intended deezo.
08-11-2005, 09:13 AM
#85
Originally Posted by deezo
Yeah but remember a loooooong time ago when people said the SAFC did nothing for NA performance?
It seems that everything that couldn't be done back then can be done and vice versa.
It seems that everything that couldn't be done back then can be done and vice versa.
08-11-2005, 09:18 AM
#86
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I'd love to see this 20hp gain from just correcting a rich A/F. I will actually consider installing one if I saw 10hp to the wheel. As deezo mentioned, I am one of those people that think a SAFC will do nothing for a N/A. Especially considering I don't have what you call a heavily modded max. Maybe a few more mods are required before you see significant gains from a SAFC?
08-11-2005, 09:25 AM
#87
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
A/F on MAXIMAS (this is Maxima.org ya know) is typically rich for 4th gens.
08-11-2005, 09:30 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by MaxxAddict
Why would nissan do this? Warranty reasons? Cheaper? Gas mileage is suffering when you run rich.
Better safe than sorry is my guess. I believe all cars are tuned to run a little rich right out of the factory.
08-11-2005, 09:34 AM
#90
Originally Posted by 99Automagic
I'd love to see this 20hp gain from just correcting a rich A/F. I will actually consider installing one if I saw 10hp to the wheel. As deezo mentioned, I am one of those people that think a SAFC will do nothing for a N/A. Especially considering I don't have what you call a heavily modded max. Maybe a few more mods are required before you see significant gains from a SAFC?
Adding the SAFC (like 96Sleeper did) to a modified ECU will show gains. I just think the SAFC won't do a ton. This is why I'm considering the SMT6...
08-11-2005, 09:44 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by deezo
But.............
Adding the SAFC (like 96Sleeper did) to a modified ECU will show gains. I just think the SAFC won't do a ton. This is why I'm considering the SMT6...
Adding the SAFC (like 96Sleeper did) to a modified ECU will show gains. I just think the SAFC won't do a ton. This is why I'm considering the SMT6...
SMT6 would be the only option for me. Since I have a 99, but that's not the killer here, from what I've read, there's a way around that finally. It's the fact that I have an auto. I just don't know enough to tinker with a program that gives me the power to royally fark my car up. Hopefully you, or someone else will play with it a while and simplify the program for people like me.
08-11-2005, 10:34 AM
#93
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Checked the dyno section. For those who use some sort of afc, they already have alot of mods to go along with it. Like I was saying before, maybe a few more mods are required to see significant gains from a safc.
08-11-2005, 11:29 AM
#94
Ok, so what you're asking is will a safc-II add significant gains being the ONLY mod ... when the thread is about intakes 
and ECU's.
I've done a total of 9 dyno runs, each set with more and more mods, and each set becoming more and more lean (stock ECU 3.5L) So yeah, that's the general idea, I thoguht you would know that, more mods = more need for tuning.
and ECU's. I've done a total of 9 dyno runs, each set with more and more mods, and each set becoming more and more lean (stock ECU 3.5L) So yeah, that's the general idea, I thoguht you would know that, more mods = more need for tuning.
08-11-2005, 11:50 AM
#95
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Ok, so what you're asking is will a safc-II add significant gains being the ONLY mod ... when the thread is about intakes and ECU's.
I've done a total of 9 dyno runs, each set with more and more mods, and each set becoming more and more lean (stock ECU 3.5L) So yeah, that's the general idea, I thoguht you would know that, more mods = more need for tuning.
and ECU's. I've done a total of 9 dyno runs, each set with more and more mods, and each set becoming more and more lean (stock ECU 3.5L) So yeah, that's the general idea, I thoguht you would know that, more mods = more need for tuning.
BUT, when you get tuned to run more rich, don't you lose HP? When my bro's car was dyno tuned after the supercharger, the tuner said that he could have squeaked out a few more horses, but didn't wanna run him too lean. I suppose that if you want to maintain the life of your vehicle, it's best to not worry about a few lost HP.....
08-11-2005, 11:53 AM
#96
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Oh I understand the theory of more mods=more lean, well, the normal bolt on mods anyway, hense a need for some sort of tuning device.
Was wondering if a SAFC could stand on it's own with decent gains, like say a Y. But when you said "gained N/A with safc", I thought that's what you meant, and I was sort of disagreeing with that.
Since all i have is a Y and a intake, I wouldn't see much gains at all with a safc. I figure the improved in/out air flow with the two mods brought the A/F out of the "rich" area, which explains why our cars improve so much with this combo, considering these cars are tuned to run rich straight from the factory. I'm sure I could tweak it so it's absolutely flat on a graph, but I believe minimal adjustments would be needed to acheive that.
The SAFC talk
just came to be somehow. I have no clue how? Maybe someone brought it up.
Still interesting.
Was wondering if a SAFC could stand on it's own with decent gains, like say a Y. But when you said "gained N/A with safc", I thought that's what you meant, and I was sort of disagreeing with that.
Since all i have is a Y and a intake, I wouldn't see much gains at all with a safc. I figure the improved in/out air flow with the two mods brought the A/F out of the "rich" area, which explains why our cars improve so much with this combo, considering these cars are tuned to run rich straight from the factory. I'm sure I could tweak it so it's absolutely flat on a graph, but I believe minimal adjustments would be needed to acheive that.
The SAFC talk
just came to be somehow. I have no clue how? Maybe someone brought it up.
Still interesting.
08-11-2005, 01:11 PM
#97
[QUOTE]
Ya think 
Depends on what your tune is (A/F ratio) Most likely for N/A anywhere 13:1-13.5:1. People use differnet ratios 
Some use more righ tunes tos ee more consistent results etc.
Boost vs non-boosted = apples & oranges.
An hour in the All motor Forum, and an hour in the F/I forums would do you 2 well. Maybe you don't have that sort of time, if not, then you need to make time if you want to learn about these devices first hand, and want them installed on your vehicle.
You may state " I do not plan on going F/I" but the concept still remains the same, it's good to know as much as possible on both subjects before going at either one ...
If not, leave it at a y-pipe and call it good.
so if you have many mods installed, you're probly running lean, and you ought to get tuned.
BUT, when you get tuned to run more rich, don't you lose HP?
Some use more righ tunes tos ee more consistent results etc.
When my bro's car was dyno tuned after the supercharger, the tuner said that he could have squeaked out a few more horses, but didn't wanna run him too lean. I suppose that if you want to maintain the life of your vehicle, it's best to not worry about a few lost HP.....
An hour in the All motor Forum, and an hour in the F/I forums would do you 2 well. Maybe you don't have that sort of time, if not, then you need to make time if you want to learn about these devices first hand, and want them installed on your vehicle.
You may state " I do not plan on going F/I" but the concept still remains the same, it's good to know as much as possible on both subjects before going at either one ...
If not, leave it at a y-pipe and call it good.
08-11-2005, 01:33 PM
#98
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[QUOTE=NmexMAX]
Thanks a lot for helping me out. Maybe I'll check out that forum later on if I have time. Hopefully then I won't have to pester y'all cuz I'll come back with newfound knowledge!
Ya think
Depends on what your tune is (A/F ratio) Most likely for N/A anywhere 13:1-13.5:1. People use differnet ratios Some use more righ tunes tos ee more consistent results etc.
Boost vs non-boosted = apples & oranges.
An hour in the All motor Forum, and an hour in the F/I forums would do you 2 well. Maybe you don't have that sort of time, if not, then you need to make time if you want to learn about these devices first hand, and want them installed on your vehicle.
You may state " I do not plan on going F/I" but the concept still remains the same, it's good to know as much as possible on both subjects before going at either one ...
If not, leave it at a y-pipe and call it good.
Depends on what your tune is (A/F ratio) Most likely for N/A anywhere 13:1-13.5:1. People use differnet ratios
Some use more righ tunes tos ee more consistent results etc. Boost vs non-boosted = apples & oranges.
An hour in the All motor Forum, and an hour in the F/I forums would do you 2 well. Maybe you don't have that sort of time, if not, then you need to make time if you want to learn about these devices first hand, and want them installed on your vehicle.
You may state " I do not plan on going F/I" but the concept still remains the same, it's good to know as much as possible on both subjects before going at either one ...
If not, leave it at a y-pipe and call it good.
Thanks a lot for helping me out. Maybe I'll check out that forum later on if I have time. Hopefully then I won't have to pester y'all cuz I'll come back with newfound knowledge!
08-11-2005, 01:37 PM
#99
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Pestering and asking questions is how you learn. I'll ask anyone about a god damn intake again if need be. Another y-pipe question? I will if some weird thought pops into my head and need answers.
Another y-pipe question? I will if some weird thought pops into my head and need answers.
08-11-2005, 02:26 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by 99Automagic
Pestering and asking questions is how you learn. I'll ask anyone about a god damn intake again if need be. Another y-pipe question? I will if some weird thought pops into my head and need answers.
Another y-pipe question? I will if some weird thought pops into my head and need answers.As I've gotta older (yes, i know im only 21) I've discovered that people aren't gonna spoon feed you.
08-11-2005, 02:37 PM
#103
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Trying to figure something out is a given. I do the search thing and the stickies. I was kidding about the intake and y-pipe thing. I think it's a simple enough subject so I won't have to ask anymore. BUT, if some strange idea pops into my head regarding them,...damn right I'm gonna ask.
08-11-2005, 02:50 PM
#105
Originally Posted by deezo
Probably. It's not a huge difference in HP so that should tell you how much better a CAI is in high end HP. Plus, we've seen the dynos of where to HP dropped lower in the high end than with a stock box. This was years ago.
The engine cares.
Do you?
How do you know it's small? One thing I do know that it is constant.
Why ask me the questions? Ask the engineers. I came to this conclusion from reading the info and I'm not going to say they don't know what they're talking about.
I ran my fastest stock time with the stock setup so I guess the stock setup on my car flows better. Damn the flow, it works better.
The engine cares.
Do you?
How do you know it's small? One thing I do know that it is constant.
Why ask me the questions? Ask the engineers. I came to this conclusion from reading the info and I'm not going to say they don't know what they're talking about.
I ran my fastest stock time with the stock setup so I guess the stock setup on my car flows better. Damn the flow, it works better.
yeah i know how much air it uses at WOT...try putting your hand over the t/b and opening it all the way w/ your other hand...it will dam near suk your arm in! plus, i think you are forgetting that when the t/b is open there is a vacuum in the intake and all the intake plumbing so no...the resonator is not filled w/ air at WOT. so after you stomp on the gas, the resonator does nothing except quiet the sound. how do i know its small? my car has one and i have seen it. i ran my best 1/4 w/ an intake...whatever one is better i dont know but air flow doesnt lie. more air=more fuel=more horsepower. period.
08-11-2005, 02:53 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
And probably get flamed.
I guess getting flamed makes people nervous?
08-11-2005, 03:01 PM
#107
the resonator does nothing except quiet the sound.
I guess getting flamed makes people nervous?
08-11-2005, 03:12 PM
#109
Originally Posted by larryseibel
yeah i know how much air it uses at WOT...try putting your hand over the t/b and opening it all the way w/ your other hand...it will dam near suk your arm in!
plus, i think you are forgetting that when the t/b is open there is a vacuum in the intake and all the intake plumbing
so no...the resonator is not filled w/ air at WOT.
so after you stomp on the gas, the resonator does nothing except quiet the sound. i ran my best 1/4 w/ an intake...whatever one is better i dont know but air flow doesnt lie. more air=more fuel=more horsepower. period.
08-11-2005, 03:20 PM
#110
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
True. But how do you get your hand on the TB opening when running at wot?
Actually there is more vacuum when the tb is closed. As you open the tb more, the less vacuum there is.
How could there NOT be air in the resonator at any time??
This was corrected already.
Actually there is more vacuum when the tb is closed. As you open the tb more, the less vacuum there is.
How could there NOT be air in the resonator at any time??
This was corrected already.
actually...there is more vacuum in the intake manifold but there is barely any vacuum in the intake plumbing at idle. you really should do your homework. how can the intake tubing have vacuum when the t/b is closed...the only amount of vacuum is whetever little the IAC is letting in. and i didnt say there wasnt air in the resonator, i said it doesnt hold air after WOT because it is under vacuum like the rest of the intake plumbing. do you really think that the resonator is supplying the intake w/ stagnant air at all times?
08-11-2005, 03:32 PM
#112
Didn't you just say put your hand over the TB?? Ever take the vacuum reading at idle vs wot?? Which is higher??
Did you stutter??
It's not huh??
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
Did you stutter??
the resonator is not filled w/ air at WOT
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
Originally Posted by larryseibel
actually...there is more vacuum in the intake manifold but there is barely any vacuum in the intake plumbing at idle. you really should do your homework. how can the intake tubing have vacuum when the t/b is closed...the only amount of vacuum is whetever little the IAC is letting in. and i didnt say there wasnt air in the resonator, i said it doesnt hold air after WOT because it is under vacuum like the rest of the intake plumbing. do you really think that the resonator is supplying the intake w/ stagnant air at all times?
08-11-2005, 03:39 PM
#113
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Didn't you just say put your hand over the TB?? Ever take the vacuum reading at idle vs wot?? Which is higher??
Did you stutter??
It's not huh??
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
Did you stutter??
It's not huh??
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
no i didnt say take a vacuum reading at WOT and idle...i know which one is higher. i said put your hand over the t/b to see how much air your car is using. just as a demonstration so that you can get the idea.yes the intake manifold is making the most vacuum at idle like i just said...but there is a diffrence in the vacuum readings between the intake manifold and the intake plumbing! the intake manifold is going to have a lot of vacuum at idle due to the t/b being closed and the pistons trying to "suck" as much air in as possible...but the intake plumbing will have very little vacuum due too it is only letting a very liilte bit of air in. namely what the IAC is letting in.
08-11-2005, 03:41 PM
#114
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Didn't you just say put your hand over the TB?? Ever take the vacuum reading at idle vs wot?? Which is higher??
Did you stutter??
It's not huh??
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
Did you stutter??
It's not huh??
The engine is making the most vacuum at idle. Whether you believe it or not.
Read and learn.
This is an article about a intake bypass valve, but its pretty interesting...
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0104scc_tested/
Just a good read to really understand what kinda vacum the intake path can create.
As for vacume at idle, just listen dude...ur telling me the car isnt sucking in air to keep the engine @ idle, its still running, and it still needs air...
08-11-2005, 03:49 PM
#115
Originally Posted by XeroX
This is an article about a intake bypass valve, but its pretty interesting...
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0104scc_tested/
Just a good read to really understand what kinda vacum the intake path can create.
As for vacume at idle, just listen dude...ur telling me the car isnt sucking in air to keep the engine @ idle, its still running, and it still needs air...
why do you say that i say things i never said...i never said the car isnt suking in air at idle! i said it is only suking in air past the IAC!!!!!!!!! are you really going to argue that? and the vacuum reading is diffrent in the intake manifold and the intake plumbing at idle! are you really going to argue w/ that?
08-11-2005, 03:51 PM
#117
Originally Posted by larryseibel
no i didnt say take a vacuum reading at WOT and idle...i know which one is higher. i said put your hand over the t/b to see how much air your car is using. just as a demonstration so that you can get the idea.yes the intake manifold is making the most vacuum at idle like i just said...but there is a diffrence in the vacuum readings between the intake manifold and the intake plumbing! the intake manifold is going to have a lot of vacuum at idle due to the t/b being closed and the pistons trying to "suck" as much air in as possible...but the intake plumbing will have very little vacuum due too it is only letting a very liilte bit of air in. namely what the IAC is letting in.
Another good read...kinda justifies your claim...
08-11-2005, 03:54 PM
#119
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
How about you just explain the "resonator is not filled with air at WOT" first.
you took my words out of context...what i was saying was it does not have a positive charge of air at WOT but it is under vacuum like the rest of the intake tubing...sorry if i mislead you
08-11-2005, 03:54 PM
#120
Originally Posted by larryseibel
why do you say that i say things i never said...i never said the car isnt suking in air at idle! i said it is only suking in air past the IAC!!!!!!!!! are you really going to argue that? and the vacuum reading is diffrent in the intake manifold and the intake plumbing at idle! are you really going to argue w/ that?
i wasnt trying to put words in your mouth, i was mearly trying to make sense of the words that came out of YOUR mouth...or fingers...
