Technosquare's explanation why intakes do NOT work on Maximas...
08-11-2005, 03:59 PM
#121
Guest
Posts: n/a
This thread has turned into a monster. Lets bring in a y-pipe and a muffler in as subjects too. 
08-11-2005, 04:00 PM
#122
Please explain in what conditions would the resonator ever be at a positive charge given the engine is in NA form?? It's always under some type of vacuum
Originally Posted by larryseibel
you took my words out of context...what i was saying was it does not have a positive charge of air at WOT but it is under vacuum like the rest of the intake tubing...sorry if i mislead you
08-11-2005, 05:19 PM
#124
Originally Posted by larryseibel
yeah i know how much air it uses at WOT...
try putting your hand over the t/b and opening it all the way w/ your other hand...it will dam near suk your arm in! plus, i think you are forgetting that when the t/b is open there is a vacuum in the intake and all the intake plumbing so no...the resonator is not filled w/ air at WOT. so after you stomp on the gas, the resonator does nothing except quiet the sound. how do i know its small? my car has one and i have seen it. i ran my best 1/4 w/ an intake...whatever one is better i dont know but air flow doesnt lie. more air=more fuel=more horsepower. period.
Correct me if I'm wrong people but didn't BrianV's dyno with his CAI (before he went boosted) drop lower in the high rpms than the stock box? I mean the drop was freakin huge.
08-11-2005, 06:29 PM
#125
Guest
Posts: n/a
other than the intake debate, i'm amazed how this thread grew to 5-6 pages in less than 48 hours.......lol
08-11-2005, 06:30 PM
#126
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 33
Forgive me for intruding on the discussion at hand, but to address the original issue about aftermarket intakes and stock ecu's;
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. The computer receives input signals from the various sensors (MAF, O2, TPS), and according to these inputs, the computer delivers output signals to the various mechanical components of the vehicle. These various mechanical components (such as the radiator fan, ABS control solenoid, or in this particular case, FUEL INJECTORS). Allow me to illustrate an easy example;
Radiator Temperature Sensor; in essence, a voltage drop detector, the temp sensor is fed a specific current from the ecu, and depending upon the temperature conditions of the sensor, a certain impedance (voltage DROP) will return to the ecu (meaning, as the temperature sensor sits inside the radiator, a tiny amount of electrical current is arcing through 2 diods, with coolant acting as a resistor. As the temperature of the coolant increases/decreases, the amount of electrical current it "resists" increases/decreases, resulting in a VOLTAGE DROP. This VD is returned to the ECU and is interpreted as a TEMPERATURE VALUE). It is called a VD because the ECU sends X amount of current and expects X-"VD" to return. Let's say, for the sake of ease, that when the VD is +1, the ECU sends an output signal to the RADIATOR FAN ( I bet this is all starting to make sense now ). The RADIATOR FAN will turn on, and stay on, until the TEMPERATURE SENSOR returns of VOLTAGE DROP of less than +1.
This simple harmony is repeated all throughout the ECU and the vehicle's various systems. However, let's say, for the sake of ease, that the ECU is programmed to expect a VD from the TEMP SENSOR in the range of +2 to 0. All of a sudden, the TEMP SENSOR returns of VD of +10. This is out of parameter. The ECU logs this with a specific DTC (diagnostic trouble code), and upon logging a DTC, the ECU prompts an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp), or check engine light.
Ok - now that this has been explained, back to the intake.
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. It receives inputs from the MAF, as well as a host of other fuel related components. Depending upon these inputs, as well as driver inputs, it follows (usually) one of two presets. A short term and a long term fuel map. Short term fuel maps usually last an average of 16 injector cycles. Long term fuel maps can last as many as 128 times the short term map. An input signal from the MAF is one of the determinants for the fuel map. The fuelmap determines the injector pulsewidth (the duration of the fuel injection, or the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders). The ECU follows a pre-determined (preprogrammed) fuel delivery schedule (fuelmap), which accounts for a variance ( plus or minus and/or errouneous ).
Since the MAF input signal to the ECU is a vital component towards determining which fuelmap to follow;
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
- the originally contested statement of;
"One of the major problems on this car was a feedback system that compensates for modifications. The oxygen sensors detects fuel mixture and will tell the ECU to richen up or lean out the mixture. This correction factor was way too wide, so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!"
The "feedback system" that "compensates for modification" which is being referred to is the entire explanation of the fuel deliver system (above). This ECU fuel map was never made with "compensating for modification" in mind. The statement is misleading at best, and easily falsifiable.
The oxygen sensor does not detect fuel mixture, and does not "tell" the ECU what to do. The O2 sensor is another VD sensor. It's purpose is to detect the exhaust mixture. This input, combined with other inputs, is another component the ECU uses to determine which fuelmap to use, amongst other tasks.
I hope this information has been helpful.
DISCLAIMER - the example of a VD sensor I used was overly simplefied for the purspose of explaining the principle behind VD sensors. The actual VD sensors are much more complicated and vary greatly in application and design. The same goes for the fuelmap example. This overly simpllified example is not EXACTLY how the maxima ECU operates, but is thie principle behind all modern EFI engines, including the maxima's.
END Objective point of view
I personally feel the above contested statement is more of a marketing tool, that's use is to sway people into purchasing a product. This information it provides bears a slight ring of truth, but is not ment to be wholly informative or beneficial in anyway. This tactic alone is enough to turn me off to a particular product, regardless of it's claims...
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. The computer receives input signals from the various sensors (MAF, O2, TPS), and according to these inputs, the computer delivers output signals to the various mechanical components of the vehicle. These various mechanical components (such as the radiator fan, ABS control solenoid, or in this particular case, FUEL INJECTORS). Allow me to illustrate an easy example;
Radiator Temperature Sensor; in essence, a voltage drop detector, the temp sensor is fed a specific current from the ecu, and depending upon the temperature conditions of the sensor, a certain impedance (voltage DROP) will return to the ecu (meaning, as the temperature sensor sits inside the radiator, a tiny amount of electrical current is arcing through 2 diods, with coolant acting as a resistor. As the temperature of the coolant increases/decreases, the amount of electrical current it "resists" increases/decreases, resulting in a VOLTAGE DROP. This VD is returned to the ECU and is interpreted as a TEMPERATURE VALUE). It is called a VD because the ECU sends X amount of current and expects X-"VD" to return. Let's say, for the sake of ease, that when the VD is +1, the ECU sends an output signal to the RADIATOR FAN ( I bet this is all starting to make sense now ). The RADIATOR FAN will turn on, and stay on, until the TEMPERATURE SENSOR returns of VOLTAGE DROP of less than +1.
This simple harmony is repeated all throughout the ECU and the vehicle's various systems. However, let's say, for the sake of ease, that the ECU is programmed to expect a VD from the TEMP SENSOR in the range of +2 to 0. All of a sudden, the TEMP SENSOR returns of VD of +10. This is out of parameter. The ECU logs this with a specific DTC (diagnostic trouble code), and upon logging a DTC, the ECU prompts an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp), or check engine light.
Ok - now that this has been explained, back to the intake.
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. It receives inputs from the MAF, as well as a host of other fuel related components. Depending upon these inputs, as well as driver inputs, it follows (usually) one of two presets. A short term and a long term fuel map. Short term fuel maps usually last an average of 16 injector cycles. Long term fuel maps can last as many as 128 times the short term map. An input signal from the MAF is one of the determinants for the fuel map. The fuelmap determines the injector pulsewidth (the duration of the fuel injection, or the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders). The ECU follows a pre-determined (preprogrammed) fuel delivery schedule (fuelmap), which accounts for a variance ( plus or minus and/or errouneous ).
Since the MAF input signal to the ECU is a vital component towards determining which fuelmap to follow;
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
- the originally contested statement of;
"One of the major problems on this car was a feedback system that compensates for modifications. The oxygen sensors detects fuel mixture and will tell the ECU to richen up or lean out the mixture. This correction factor was way too wide, so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!"
The "feedback system" that "compensates for modification" which is being referred to is the entire explanation of the fuel deliver system (above). This ECU fuel map was never made with "compensating for modification" in mind. The statement is misleading at best, and easily falsifiable.
The oxygen sensor does not detect fuel mixture, and does not "tell" the ECU what to do. The O2 sensor is another VD sensor. It's purpose is to detect the exhaust mixture. This input, combined with other inputs, is another component the ECU uses to determine which fuelmap to use, amongst other tasks.
I hope this information has been helpful.
DISCLAIMER - the example of a VD sensor I used was overly simplefied for the purspose of explaining the principle behind VD sensors. The actual VD sensors are much more complicated and vary greatly in application and design. The same goes for the fuelmap example. This overly simpllified example is not EXACTLY how the maxima ECU operates, but is thie principle behind all modern EFI engines, including the maxima's.
END Objective point of view
I personally feel the above contested statement is more of a marketing tool, that's use is to sway people into purchasing a product. This information it provides bears a slight ring of truth, but is not ment to be wholly informative or beneficial in anyway. This tactic alone is enough to turn me off to a particular product, regardless of it's claims...
08-11-2005, 06:32 PM
#127
Originally Posted by deezo
...and it's not just about airflow with the stock setup. It's about "air charging" the engine's air intake system. The resonator acts as a capacitor to charge the pistons by supplying "on the spot" air needed by the engine. The resonator holds air as opposed to a CAI or Hybrid which holds nothing but the air that is travelling from the filter.
A lot of people used to complain about stomping on the gas and getting a slight delay in acceleration when running with CAI and Hybrids which could be caused by not having a resonated intake on an NA engine.
A lot of people used to complain about stomping on the gas and getting a slight delay in acceleration when running with CAI and Hybrids which could be caused by not having a resonated intake on an NA engine.
Jeff92se
this is why i said in the first place that the resonator doesnt charge air
A. the resonator is under vacuum like the rest of the intake
B. if the resonator did hold air it would supply about as much air for one second of WOT...maybe not even
08-11-2005, 06:36 PM
#128
Originally Posted by deezo
BS. Show me some stats for both. I figure you must have a way to measure this.
You have no proof as to what you're talking about. I want to see documented proof that the CAI is better overall than the stock setup. This is what the debate is really about.
Correct me if I'm wrong people but didn't BrianV's dyno with his CAI (before he went boosted) drop lower in the high rpms than the stock box? I mean the drop was freakin huge.
You have no proof as to what you're talking about. I want to see documented proof that the CAI is better overall than the stock setup. This is what the debate is really about.
Correct me if I'm wrong people but didn't BrianV's dyno with his CAI (before he went boosted) drop lower in the high rpms than the stock box? I mean the drop was freakin huge.
i never said that a cai is better...in fact i admit that i dont know which one is better. i simply stated the fact that more air=more fuel=more power. i said which everone flows more is the better one! read all my posts and i never said a cai is superior.
08-11-2005, 06:45 PM
#129
if the ecu has to default to failsafe mode it usually sets a CEL
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
I hope this information has been helpful.
...
the oxygen sensor detcts only oxygen so in theory when adding perf. parts where there will be more oxygen entering and exiting the engine the o2 sensor will read a higher oxygen content in which the ecu will add fuel to avoid a lean condition. more air and fuel = more power...in theory
Originally Posted by Feed
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
I hope this information has been helpful.
...
the oxygen sensor detcts only oxygen so in theory when adding perf. parts where there will be more oxygen entering and exiting the engine the o2 sensor will read a higher oxygen content in which the ecu will add fuel to avoid a lean condition. more air and fuel = more power...in theory
08-11-2005, 08:05 PM
#130
Originally Posted by Feed
Forgive me for intruding on the discussion at hand, but to address the original issue about aftermarket intakes and stock ecu's;
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. The computer receives input signals from the various sensors (MAF, O2, TPS), and according to these inputs, the computer delivers output signals to the various mechanical components of the vehicle. These various mechanical components (such as the radiator fan, ABS control solenoid, or in this particular case, FUEL INJECTORS). Allow me to illustrate an easy example;
Radiator Temperature Sensor; in essence, a voltage drop detector, the temp sensor is fed a specific current from the ecu, and depending upon the temperature conditions of the sensor, a certain impedance (voltage DROP) will return to the ecu (meaning, as the temperature sensor sits inside the radiator, a tiny amount of electrical current is arcing through 2 diods, with coolant acting as a resistor. As the temperature of the coolant increases/decreases, the amount of electrical current it "resists" increases/decreases, resulting in a VOLTAGE DROP. This VD is returned to the ECU and is interpreted as a TEMPERATURE VALUE). It is called a VD because the ECU sends X amount of current and expects X-"VD" to return. Let's say, for the sake of ease, that when the VD is +1, the ECU sends an output signal to the RADIATOR FAN ( I bet this is all starting to make sense now ). The RADIATOR FAN will turn on, and stay on, until the TEMPERATURE SENSOR returns of VOLTAGE DROP of less than +1.
This simple harmony is repeated all throughout the ECU and the vehicle's various systems. However, let's say, for the sake of ease, that the ECU is programmed to expect a VD from the TEMP SENSOR in the range of +2 to 0. All of a sudden, the TEMP SENSOR returns of VD of +10. This is out of parameter. The ECU logs this with a specific DTC (diagnostic trouble code), and upon logging a DTC, the ECU prompts an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp), or check engine light.
Ok - now that this has been explained, back to the intake.
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. It receives inputs from the MAF, as well as a host of other fuel related components. Depending upon these inputs, as well as driver inputs, it follows (usually) one of two presets. A short term and a long term fuel map. Short term fuel maps usually last an average of 16 injector cycles. Long term fuel maps can last as many as 128 times the short term map. An input signal from the MAF is one of the determinants for the fuel map. The fuelmap determines the injector pulsewidth (the duration of the fuel injection, or the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders). The ECU follows a pre-determined (preprogrammed) fuel delivery schedule (fuelmap), which accounts for a variance ( plus or minus and/or errouneous ).
Since the MAF input signal to the ECU is a vital component towards determining which fuelmap to follow;
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
- the originally contested statement of;
"One of the major problems on this car was a feedback system that compensates for modifications. The oxygen sensors detects fuel mixture and will tell the ECU to richen up or lean out the mixture. This correction factor was way too wide, so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!"
The "feedback system" that "compensates for modification" which is being referred to is the entire explanation of the fuel deliver system (above). This ECU fuel map was never made with "compensating for modification" in mind. The statement is misleading at best, and easily falsifiable.
The oxygen sensor does not detect fuel mixture, and does not "tell" the ECU what to do. The O2 sensor is another VD sensor. It's purpose is to detect the exhaust mixture. This input, combined with other inputs, is another component the ECU uses to determine which fuelmap to use, amongst other tasks.
I hope this information has been helpful.
DISCLAIMER - the example of a VD sensor I used was overly simplefied for the purspose of explaining the principle behind VD sensors. The actual VD sensors are much more complicated and vary greatly in application and design. The same goes for the fuelmap example. This overly simpllified example is not EXACTLY how the maxima ECU operates, but is thie principle behind all modern EFI engines, including the maxima's.
END Objective point of view
I personally feel the above contested statement is more of a marketing tool, that's use is to sway people into purchasing a product. This information it provides bears a slight ring of truth, but is not ment to be wholly informative or beneficial in anyway. This tactic alone is enough to turn me off to a particular product, regardless of it's claims...
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. The computer receives input signals from the various sensors (MAF, O2, TPS), and according to these inputs, the computer delivers output signals to the various mechanical components of the vehicle. These various mechanical components (such as the radiator fan, ABS control solenoid, or in this particular case, FUEL INJECTORS). Allow me to illustrate an easy example;
Radiator Temperature Sensor; in essence, a voltage drop detector, the temp sensor is fed a specific current from the ecu, and depending upon the temperature conditions of the sensor, a certain impedance (voltage DROP) will return to the ecu (meaning, as the temperature sensor sits inside the radiator, a tiny amount of electrical current is arcing through 2 diods, with coolant acting as a resistor. As the temperature of the coolant increases/decreases, the amount of electrical current it "resists" increases/decreases, resulting in a VOLTAGE DROP. This VD is returned to the ECU and is interpreted as a TEMPERATURE VALUE). It is called a VD because the ECU sends X amount of current and expects X-"VD" to return. Let's say, for the sake of ease, that when the VD is +1, the ECU sends an output signal to the RADIATOR FAN ( I bet this is all starting to make sense now ). The RADIATOR FAN will turn on, and stay on, until the TEMPERATURE SENSOR returns of VOLTAGE DROP of less than +1.
This simple harmony is repeated all throughout the ECU and the vehicle's various systems. However, let's say, for the sake of ease, that the ECU is programmed to expect a VD from the TEMP SENSOR in the range of +2 to 0. All of a sudden, the TEMP SENSOR returns of VD of +10. This is out of parameter. The ECU logs this with a specific DTC (diagnostic trouble code), and upon logging a DTC, the ECU prompts an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp), or check engine light.
Ok - now that this has been explained, back to the intake.
The computer's (ECU) fuelmap is dynamic. It receives inputs from the MAF, as well as a host of other fuel related components. Depending upon these inputs, as well as driver inputs, it follows (usually) one of two presets. A short term and a long term fuel map. Short term fuel maps usually last an average of 16 injector cycles. Long term fuel maps can last as many as 128 times the short term map. An input signal from the MAF is one of the determinants for the fuel map. The fuelmap determines the injector pulsewidth (the duration of the fuel injection, or the amount of fuel injected into the cylinders). The ECU follows a pre-determined (preprogrammed) fuel delivery schedule (fuelmap), which accounts for a variance ( plus or minus and/or errouneous ).
Since the MAF input signal to the ECU is a vital component towards determining which fuelmap to follow;
It is possible, that if an MAF sensor signal remains out of parameter for enough time, due to the installation of an aftermarket intake manifold, that a restrictive, or more LEAN fuel map can be used. In some cases, many ECU's have a failsafe "LIMP" mode, or bascially, FLAT fuelmap, which applied in cases of multiple Misfires and erroneus TPS and cam sensor errors.
This adds a smidge of validity to the statement that installation of an aftermarket intake can stifle, or "hurt" performance.
- the originally contested statement of;
"One of the major problems on this car was a feedback system that compensates for modifications. The oxygen sensors detects fuel mixture and will tell the ECU to richen up or lean out the mixture. This correction factor was way too wide, so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!"
The "feedback system" that "compensates for modification" which is being referred to is the entire explanation of the fuel deliver system (above). This ECU fuel map was never made with "compensating for modification" in mind. The statement is misleading at best, and easily falsifiable.
The oxygen sensor does not detect fuel mixture, and does not "tell" the ECU what to do. The O2 sensor is another VD sensor. It's purpose is to detect the exhaust mixture. This input, combined with other inputs, is another component the ECU uses to determine which fuelmap to use, amongst other tasks.
I hope this information has been helpful.
DISCLAIMER - the example of a VD sensor I used was overly simplefied for the purspose of explaining the principle behind VD sensors. The actual VD sensors are much more complicated and vary greatly in application and design. The same goes for the fuelmap example. This overly simpllified example is not EXACTLY how the maxima ECU operates, but is thie principle behind all modern EFI engines, including the maxima's.
END Objective point of view
I personally feel the above contested statement is more of a marketing tool, that's use is to sway people into purchasing a product. This information it provides bears a slight ring of truth, but is not ment to be wholly informative or beneficial in anyway. This tactic alone is enough to turn me off to a particular product, regardless of it's claims...
08-11-2005, 08:12 PM
#131
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by g4nismo
i didn't bother to read what u posted but just wanted to say thats almost as long as my last paper i wrote for english
Maybe he just did a paper on the subject and decided to copy and paste it into the thread? I was thinking the same thing you were thinking.
08-11-2005, 08:17 PM
#132
I read it, and I thought it was good info (Feed).
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
08-11-2005, 08:34 PM
#133
i have a warpspeed 2.5 in catback exhaust. about 8 months ago i installed a cold air intake, and i noticed the acceleration between 70mph-120 was very aggressive, but once i got to 120mph it would slow down tremedously now with the stock intake it keeps going until it redlines in 3rd gear which is 130mphwith the o/d off (automatic) then when i cut the over drive back on it sails to 140 easly, with the cold air intake it was extremely hard to do, also with the cai after a while the car would run sluggish slower take offs idle not as smooth ect. last week i switch back to stock intake with a k&n drop in filter and man what a difference!!!!! take off high end power ect.. but the acceleration was alittle less aggressive than the cai but i sure can tell you they didnt design the scoop for nothing!! its a big difference i rather use the stock set up. yes the more air the more power but it has to be done the right way in other words one part works with another once you change that one part it throws some other things out of wack. but with the stock intake SMOOTH LIKE BUTTER AND POWER! WITH THE CAI ROUGH NOT SMOOTH BUT A LITTLE MORE AGRESSIVE ACCELERATION!
08-11-2005, 08:39 PM
#134
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
I read it, and I thought it was good info (Feed).
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
lol
we argue about silly things like this all the time and i must say, it is quite getting banal
08-11-2005, 08:45 PM
#136
thats why i posted, draw a conclusion from your own personal experience!! make s more sense to look at it that way all the data in the world could never compestate personal experience!! experience is the best teacher. i was told this in my first yr in high school back in 1987 DRAW FROM YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!!
08-11-2005, 11:16 PM
#139
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by g4nismo
bet this will last 2 more pages, 3 tops, unless someone locks it....
08-12-2005, 12:06 AM
#140
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
Originally Posted by g4nismo
i didn't bother to read what u posted but just wanted to say thats almost as long as my last paper i wrote for english
i read it and it was pretty well writen and the info was pretty good. we need more people with that kind of IQ making ideas instead of a bunch of blabbers that talk out their *** like its the truth
08-12-2005, 05:00 AM
#142
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
I read it, and I thought it was good info (Feed).
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
I'm just stating what I read and how I understood it and Larry is contesting the facts.
08-12-2005, 05:29 AM
#143
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
I also think you guys are all retarded for arguing the power difference between intakes since you are making this thread 28 pages long over about 2hp difference...
we where merely debating the facts and fictions of a cai and stock airbox. there was no name calling or personal insults therefore it was never an argument. i thought that was what the org. was for.
by the way deezo...if you still think that the resonator "holds air" and "charges the intake manifold" then i would suspect you are the one "kicking around nonsense."
08-12-2005, 05:46 AM
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,327
I really can't see how adding an intake will add horsepower because the computer will compensate. The only way to check without a dyno is regular driving. If your gas mileage goes down (and tire pressure the same etc.) then you probably added horsepower. The 5th gen gets more horsepower but it's gas mileage suffers.
The only reason I would put on an aftermarket intake (mainly a CAI) is to give the appearance of more room in the engine compartment, plus I can't stand plastic.
The only reason I would put on an aftermarket intake (mainly a CAI) is to give the appearance of more room in the engine compartment, plus I can't stand plastic.
08-12-2005, 05:55 AM
#145
I haven't read through this whole thread but I will mention that the custom intake and MAF on my car, and one other persons car, certainly did make more power. At least that is what the dynojet 248c clearly said, butt dynos and baseless theory's don't count. Tuning the A/F is an integral part of this.
08-12-2005, 08:05 AM
#147
Got pics?
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
I haven't read through this whole thread but I will mention that the custom intake and MAF on my car, and one other persons car, certainly did make more power. At least that is what the dynojet 248c clearly said, butt dynos and baseless theory's don't count. Tuning the A/F is an integral part of this.
08-12-2005, 08:07 AM
#148
Originally Posted by g4nismo
why don't someone e-mail a nissan engineer or something and ask them about this once and for all
Most engineers know little about real world practicality. And even if someone could get an intelligent response it won't affect the facts as posted by dozens of real world tests done by members of this forum.
08-12-2005, 08:19 AM
#149
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by g4nismo
why don't someone e-mail a nissan engineer or something and ask them about this once and for all
08-12-2005, 01:48 PM
#150
Originally Posted by larryseibel
by the way deezo...if you still think that the resonator "holds air" and "charges the intake manifold" then i would suspect you are the one "kicking around nonsense."
You can't just believe something works one way without verifying it and the way to verify is to read. Where did you get your info from?
If I'm kicking around nonsense, then I'm reading nonsense.
08-12-2005, 02:01 PM
#151
this is funny between my exhaust ,intake (with secret intake mod),TB, ecu,pulley ,midpipe and y-pipe i have been told by myself or others that these mods do nothing or not that much.
But if this is true how come i run a 13.35@103.75 on DR's.
people if i started plucking these parts off my car you would see what they do.
But if this is true how come i run a 13.35@103.75 on DR's.
people if i started plucking these parts off my car you would see what they do.
08-12-2005, 07:03 PM
#152
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,183
Um ... you have 00VI, ECU, and Y-Pipe. We all know those make the biggest differences. Exhaust helps a little and I am sure a lot more if you are FI, but this is an NA thread.
I have heard people say UDP doesn't do anything ... that is true if you are talking about HP but then again it doesn't add HP but allow faster revs like a flywheel. Midpipe is part of the intake so I wouldn't count it as a separate mod.
Krismax I wish you were the father of 00VI and me :'( ... I need 00VI real bad but am too noobish to install myself.
I have heard people say UDP doesn't do anything ... that is true if you are talking about HP but then again it doesn't add HP but allow faster revs like a flywheel. Midpipe is part of the intake so I wouldn't count it as a separate mod.
Krismax I wish you were the father of 00VI and me :'( ... I need 00VI real bad but am too noobish to install myself.
08-12-2005, 07:13 PM
#153
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Whitemax
I have heard that there are certain losses with intakes over the stock steup. Wouldnt suprise me if it were true.....
-dexter
08-12-2005, 07:35 PM
#154
Maybe I should have said you are silly for discussing an alleged 2hp difference ad nauseum? Regardless I just think it's funny that you guys are drawing such a line in the sand over something that is almost immeasurable.
I think the difference between different intakes and the stock airbox are so small as to be almost undetectable even with back to back dynos.
I think the difference between different intakes and the stock airbox are so small as to be almost undetectable even with back to back dynos.
08-13-2005, 07:59 AM
#155
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Maybe I should have said you are silly for discussing an alleged 2hp difference ad nauseum? Regardless I just think it's funny that you guys are drawing such a line in the sand over something that is almost immeasurable.
I think the difference between different intakes and the stock airbox are so small as to be almost undetectable even with back to back dynos.
I think the difference between different intakes and the stock airbox are so small as to be almost undetectable even with back to back dynos.
I don't see the logic in why people shouldn't talk about differences in 2 or 3 and people with 30 or 60 hp should talk about it. What's important to you is not important to these guys.
08-13-2005, 08:03 AM
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
yes, and intakes are important, cause that's all I know so far. 
Gotta have something to talk about in here.
Gotta have something to talk about in here.
08-13-2005, 10:22 AM
#157
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by larryseibel
the oxygen sensor detcts only oxygen so in theory when adding perf. parts where there will be more oxygen entering and exiting the engine the o2 sensor will read a higher oxygen content in which the ecu will add fuel to avoid a lean condition. more air and fuel = more power...in theory
Hmmmm....I see your point. But perhaps there is some ambiguity between Oxygen and Atmosphere...
The oxygen sensor detects the ratio between unburned hydrocarbons vs post-combustion atmospheric content, also known as exhaust gas. Amongst many other byproducts of combustion, yes, there exists oxygen, but the oxygen sensor does not detect oxygen itself. The Oxygen sensor is a voltage detector. Depending on lean/rich condition of the air/fuel mixture (pre-combustion), the exhaust gas will have a greater or lesser amount of un-burned hydrocarbons present. The Oxygen sensor detects this hydrocarbon content in the form of a voltage drop. If there exists an abundance of hydrocarbons in the exhaust gas, there is incomplete combustion, meaning either too much fuel or not enough air (rich condition), and vice versa.
The inconsistency between our two statements exists in the "more" and the "air/oxygen". There exists aproximately 19-21% oxygen in the atmosphere, depending upon where you live. I would consider this a constant. The amount of "air" entering/exiting the engine is determined by the condition of your combustion; ie sparkplugs, valve clearance, timing, fuel octane, etc... The most important of these, and the only thing the ECU can readily control is the air/fuel mixture. This is the oxygen sensors's main purpose, for emissions control and power delivery.
So, you are correct in your statement, "more air and more fuel = more power". However, the previous statement regarding oxygen content and oxygen sensors, indicated to me that there was a possibility that the "meat and potatoes" backing up "more air/fuel" could have been in question.
Not trying to argue or flame, or be condescending. Just trying to contribute as much information to the cause as possible.
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