19maxima95

iTrader: (1)

I've narrowed down these 2 products: Tokiko HP struts and KYB GR-2 Struts.

Does anyone have any experience with these 2 different struts? If so, please share your information here. I'm pretty new at all these different products, so I would like to see some pro's and cons.

Thanks!

19maxima95

iTrader: (1)

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chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

Tokico Blues are meant as a replacement for stock and are not meant for lowering.

19maxima95

iTrader: (1)

I purchased a set of maxspeed springs, I'm not really looking for performance, just a smoother ride.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Same thing with GR-2s.

Neither will be great, but either one will be better than stock with lowering springs. I'd say get the Blues.

Stuntin' 101

if your looking for a smoother ride, you NEED to get adjustables. the maxspeed springs you have are a harsh spring to begin with. about 50% stiffer than your stock springs. the toy. blues WILL blow on a lowered spring, and the gr-2's are probably the HARSHEST strut you can buy. i would not even consider them if i were you.. i would recommend getting a set of illumina's. they are expensive, but you get what you pay for. im on h&r springs, which are only 30% stiffer than stock, and use to have gr-2's.. the ride was horrible. i swaped them out for illumina's and the difference was night and day. if ride quality is a factor for you, i would also suggest swapping the maxspeed springs you have to a less harsh spring, and pairing them with an adjustable strut like the illumia's or at least a set of kyb agx's. i wish a never bought the gr-2's i had.. there should be a sticky saying to not even consider buying them.. they were on the car with lowered springs, and bigger rims for a few years. all they did was make everything in the car rattle, and ruin 2 sets of rims. now the majority of money i spend goes to fixing all the things those struts helped to ruin on my car. learn for other people's mistakes..

Stuntin' 101

just to add.. there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, to lower your car, and have a "smoother" ride than stock. if you would like me to get into more detail, or you have other questions, just keep posting

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

The reason you had a rough ride with those GR-2s is that they don't have enough damping force to control stiffer-than-stock springs. I had GR-2s on my SE when I had the stock springs, and they rode just as smoothly as the stock shocks.

Bad struts also won't cause bent rims. Weak rims, low-profile tires, low tire pressure, and hyper-stiff springs (i.e. stiffer than what 90% of people will ever see in their lives) can cause bent rims when you hit a pothole or something. But if anything, bad struts would make things easier on your rims because they would provide no resistance to wheel movement when you hit a bump.

Also, there could be a way to lower your car and have a better ride than stock. You just need the softest lowering springs you can find, really good struts, a lot of chassis stiffening, and the lightest wheels and tires possible. With a stiff chassis and minimal unsprung weight, your suspension would soak everything up nicely and keep things smooth.

Stuntin' 101

i have about $5000 worth of bent rims in the garage due to gr2's.. the problem with gr2's is that they are too stiff, especially combined with a much stiffer spring. its not because they dont have enough dampening force, its because they hardly dampen anything at all. why do you think they are the cheapest strut you can buy that wont blow on a lowered spring.
if you think putting a spring thats 50% stiffer than stock on your car combined with the stiffest strut known to mankind (gr's2) wont bend rims, your sadly mistaken.. think about what you just said again for a minute.. your saying that an aftermarket suspension that about 65% stiffer than you original is going to have more give, and travel than the 30 psi of air pressure in your tire.. also.. if the tire is flexing enough for the edge of the rim to even make contact with a solid object that can bend it (moderate pothole) the problem isnt "weak rims"
your comparing your experience with gr2's on a stock spring, and probably on stock size rims and tires too..

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Wow... I'm not even sure if you know what you meant by all that.

First off, you're contradicting yourself. How can struts that "hardly dampen anything at all" be "the stiffest strut known to mankind"?

Secondly, GR-2s don't magically get stiffer or softer with different springs, wheels, and tires. You were saying that they were terrible struts, period -- which I'm sure was true in your case, but it's not necessarily true in other cases. But either way, no matter how rough your ride is with them, they won't somehow turn your car into a maniacal rim-bending psycho machine. You probably just hit some really punishing bumps which woulda bent your rims no matter what struts you had, but it felt extra horrible because the struts were a bad match for the springs with the rims you had. I can see how that'd make you think the struts bent the rims. All I'm saying was that that's not the case.

And FYI, GR-2s blow all the damn time on lowering springs.

Stuntin' 101

you are definately one person that should not be giving advice..
i can tell the person that started this thread this much.. ive had 2 4th gen maximas for about the last 8 years or so.. with that, iave had about 3 differt suspension set-ups. i went through a set of giovanna rims ($$$), and a set of enkie v1's ($$$$$$$), both sets bent. i changed ONLY my struts, from kyb gr-2's to illumina's and i have yet to bend another rim. also the difference in ride is like night and day between the two struts. im also lowered, and on bigger rims.

speak to some of the older members on this board and they will all tell you that gr2's are one of the worst riding struts you can buy.(beause they've been there and done that with these cars already. alot of the younger guys are still learning)

86maxima96

iTrader: (10)

wow, IBTL. both of you have kinda weak cases, just because it's hard to tell what you are saying... but that's just me.

anyway, 19maxima95: my advice to you is to go with Illuminas initially. worth the investment. otherwise, Blues. (are you lowering? you didn't mention that earlier.)

stevieb92

My wife and I have just installed the Tokico Illuminas on her 99 SE and the ride is great!!! The adjustability is awesome as well...

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I remember your expensive story stuntin' 101, but d00d makes a good point. Your blamming the struts for your bent rims, but your forgetting what state your driving around in, I'm seen Ny's roads, they arent friendly to any rims let alone larger rims.

GR-2 can ride rough, they are stiffer, but wont be the sole cause of bent rims.

Stuntin' 101

all i can tell you is i have bent a rim yet since the struts were changed..

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

And the GR2's werent helping your case but getting rid of them helped, but I'm sure they werent the cause completly.

Point being with Maxspeed springs, no matter what struts/shocks your choose it wont be smoother than stock, the best thing to do is try to pair it with struts that will minize the amount of roughness you'll get with those springs. Illuminas on a very soft setting or maybe even AGX on 1 all around should yield a pretty decent ride.

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

I am currently on H&R's with GR2's. Yes the ride isn't as good as stock, but I feel that it is still considered comfortable. The only problem is when winter comes around. They feel stiffer in the winter and in colder climates. I put them on in Feb. and it was harsh, but now it is nice.
Another note: I AM ON STOCK 15's...so that may be the reason for the nicer ride with the GR2's. I am getting some 16's next week, i'll let you know how the ride is after that...

So to help you choose between the original question of either hp's and gr2's...tough call with the maxspeeds you are using...may be better to save for illuminas...But it's totally up to you...
Good luck with this great debate...

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

I was just considering putting on a set of H&R's and I have a newer set of Blues, are these struts known to blow out easily with lower springs? What about Eibach Springs?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

H&Rs are good soft springs, but I believe any springs that will lower the car, arent best for the Blues.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

We still don't know what rims and tires Stuntin' is now on... they're obviously different from the ones he had before he switched to Illuminas. Maybe they haven't been bent yet because they're stronger or lighter than what was on there before.

Anyway, I've said what I needed to say. I hope at least someone is literate and smart enough to judge the debate for themselves.

Also, no matter what we think about Stuntin's horrible rim-eating experiences, I think we've all pretty much agreed that GR-2s and Blues aren't really appropriate for lowering springs.

Count me as one more vote for saving up for Illuminas.

19maxima95

iTrader: (1)

All good points on what struts to use. I decided on the Tokiko Hp's with my maxspeed springs. I will let you all know how it rides, seeing that I'm riding on the 2005 350z rims.

Thanks all

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Still have brand new Tokico Illluminas and Tein H-techs for sale for the 4th gen Max and I30. $575 shipped. $25 less if picked up in person.

McNasty360

I just put in a set of Tokico Blues that came with lowering springs. I hear a lot of people on here saying that they aren't made to be lowered, but tokico sells a complete lowering kit based around those shocks. I thought the ride was too harsh at first, but I have become accustomed to it and the shocks never bottom out, even on the harshest bumps, and I live in Brooklyn. I just figure that a harsher ride comes with the territory when it comes to lowering.

pacodsp

For us younger guys out there just starting, what lowering kits would you (all) suggest? I want to drop my car an inch to an inch and a half and I was looking at Eibach Pro Kits the most. I want do lower it and possibly upgrade ths suspension as well, so I figured it couldnt hurt to ask so I dont go through 3 sets (as well as to find out if doing both at the same time would be worth it, or if I should just lower it without messing with the suspension). This would be my first major modification and I would like to make sure I get the job done right.

(Im not sure if it helps, but currently all my gear is still stock.)

Stuntin' 101

h&r springs.. same drop, but only 30% stiffer than stock as opposed to the 50% eibachs are, and tokico illumia struts. they are adjustable, so u can make them harder or softer. this way YOU CONTROL what your ride is like, and youru not just stuck with what they give you. especially if you decide to go with bigger rims.

also , if i had to do it all over again.. the VERY FIRST THING i would have bought BEFORE i lowered my car is a set of subframe connectors. if you plan on keeping you car for a long time, and dont have the best of roads in you area, definatley look into these. these will prevent the " after effects " of installing a very tight suspension and having the roads beat up your car for a few years.. im trying to get them made to fix the problems, i should have gotten them to avoid the problems all together. they will also make you car ride alot better and less harsh once its lowered.

Stuntin' 101

i bent a set of giovanna corsica's with nitto tires..
i bent a set of enkie v1's with toyo proxies.

the giovannas i think use to cost about 400 a peice, and the nittos werent all that much.. mabye 125 a peice or so

the enkie's cost $525 for each rim, and the tires were $200 a peice..

i swapped the struts, bought alessio rims (about 600 for all four) and falcon tires (150 each)

i have yet to bend a rim or get a flat since the kybs were swapped out and i added my NASA desinged 600 set of rims.

Stuntin' 101

your on 15 " rims ya dope.. the sidewall on you tires has about as much flex and travel as you strut does.. slap on some 18's with a 40 series tire and then tell me your car rides good..

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

I would agree with you Stuntin that the gr2s help contribute to bent rims, but not the only thing. If the strut is harsh that means it doesn't valve fast enough when you fall in a dip. A true racing suspension/ coilovers are stiffer , alot of people like the gr2 for the control, aka stiffness in turns. Plus Ny is a whole nother animal. People that have never drove there can swear up and down by country road methods but that aint gonna cut it, driving in NY is NO JOKE ( I grew up there), the potholes there are no joke. Try avoiding a pothole by switching lanes on the BQE during rush hour.. (Mission impossible theme plays) Personally in NY I wouldn't ride on anything less than 45 series tires. Even 45s are a stretch.

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

please don't call me a dope...i did write that in my post that the ride might be due to the 15's so i know i am on 15's and i noted that in my post....
i am beginning to think that the org is full of mean people instead of people trying to help eachother out...

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I had Tokico HPs on my heavy@ss 2002 with Progress springs (drop 1.8F 1.5R) and the struts didn't blow after about 7K of usage, PLUS they had come used with 10k miles on em from someone else who used em with Maxspeeds on his 00-01, PLUS now they're on Soonerfan's 2002 with H&Rs for about 2-3k miles and have still yet to blow. So, in my case, I've yet to see any issues with HPs on lowering springs.

As for ride quality and optimum handling, get Illuminas or AGXs, cuz only then will you be able to match the dampening of the struts to the springs ya have. The ride was a little bouncy with the Progress springs for me because the struts were too "soft". From what I know, HPs have decent compression damping, but too little rebound damping (so they kinda spring back quicker), which makes them bouncy with lower drops. Ever since I got em Illuminas with the Progress springs, its been a world of improvement in both departments.

Wisky97SE

iTrader: (1)

I had the Tokico Blues paired up with Eibachs on my Maxima and it rode like crap. The Tokico Blues did not provide enough dampening to match the Eibachs spring rate. My friend has Progress / KYB AGX and his Maxima rides better than mine did.

My setup on the IS300 is TEIN Htechs (very mild drop, similar to stock spring rate) with Koni Yellow struts and I am extremely satisfied with the way it rides and handles. The closest match for the Maxima to this setup would be H&Rs paired with Koni Yellows.

soccstv

I just purchased the illuminas w/ tein s-techs. just waiting for ups to arrive at my door with them. can't wait to install them!

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Got my rears today, unfortunately I didn't have enough flow to get all 4, will get the fronts after Nopi.

pacodsp

Thanks for helping a n00b out guys!!! Looks like Im going to stop looking at eibachs and go with the H&r's. As for my struts, Im going to look more closely into tokico illumia (Stuntin' 101's suggestion) vs Koni Yellows (Wisky97SE101's suggestion).


Stuntin', thanks for the suggestion of a adding a subframe connector. I do plan on keeping my car for a while (however, I dont see myself changing the rims on it anytime soon), so I will look into this much deeper. I may hit you up with a question in the near future.


Thanks again for the help. Being my first major mod, I just want to get the job done right

Stuntin' 101

now you got it...

retrospex

iTrader: (1)

i hate to add more flame to this fire, but i'd like to know if the illumina shocks/struts set with the springs is something to consider when i decide to purchase suspension components for my car, or should i get h&r springs (as what i'm seeing is quite popular) and some other shocks/struts. by the way i too live in nyc (queens) and my max still has stock rims, tires, and suspension (SE -1998)... thanks

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

I'd suggest coilovers if you have the cash. They're a little stiff though.

....Or, it means the valving is too soft, which means it does nothing to prevent bounce or cushion you from impacts. Coilovers are stiffer because of the springs, not the shocks. The only reason coilovers have stiff shock valving is because it takes a lot more force to control a stiff spring.

And shocks don't provide stiffness in turns... springs do. Shocks just keep the motion caused by the springs under control so you don't get bounced around.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

You cannot go wrong with Illuminas. As for springs, it depends if you want the lowered look or not and how much bump action you can tolerate. SE stock springs would be a good match with them if you decide that the lowered look is not your thing and you want to save some bread and butt.

If you got the jack, however, then you might consider something like Tokico coilovers to solve both issues.

Stuntin' 101

h&r, and illumina's.. its cheaper to do it it once, and do it rite, then it is to do it over. some people may like coilovers. yes they look nice cause u can adjust them down low, but there are alot of sacrafices that also come along with having coilovers.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

scarificies like what