Just picked up an Alutec FSTB from Paradox Systems's sale. It was $85 shipped. Here's the link:

http://www.paradox-systems.com/produ...products_id=28

I've been eyeing this thing for a while because it's beefy and broad, like a lot of JDM bars (I always thought the USDM ones looked pretty flimsy). I'm on Ksport coilovers with no chassis stiffening whatsoever, so this made a very big improvement. Bump steer is virtually gone, handling is more predictable, and believe it or not, the ride is a little better. Driving over a hump or dip in the road, like at the foot of a driveway, no longer twists the front end like it's made of cheese... it used to make me feel like I was torturing my car, but now the thing kinda climbs up and goes about its business instead of jarring me and demanding an apology. It's weird to me that such a small thing could make such a big difference, because I'm always skeptical of that kind of promise. But lo and behold, I have one, and it ROCKS.

And of course, Paradox Systems was excellent in handling my order and shipping it out promptly.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this product if you're lowered, especially on a really stiff suspension, and don't already have a FSTB.

 

your praising this bar like it made ur suspension feel like night and day. Did the FSTB make THAT much of a difference?

85 bucks is a bit pricey...i thought i paied top dollar for my CustomMaxima one. ($60)

 

Oh, don't get me wrong... just cruising along on a decent road, it makes no difference whatsoever. But bumps just do not unsettle my car the way they used to, and some sections of road that made me feel like my car hated me are not nearly as much of a problem any more. That, to me, is worth a LOT, so that's why I'm so happy with the thing.

Don't forget: I'm lowered about 3" on coilovers with some pretty darn stiff springs, so not only does that make my chassis flex more (cuz of the springs), but it makes the effects worse (cuz of the drop). I'm also pretty sensitive to the effects of chassis flex. Those things probably play a big role in my opinion. But I KNOW that ANYONE who has coilovers will feel a good improvement by adding a good FSTB, and this is a great one.

 

Stage one lower tie bar from Blehmco owns the FSTB anyday of the week. Its cheaper too.

 

it only bolts onto two of the three strut bolts? kinda seems like there may be better oprions out there. is that thing solid? if so, i'm not doubting it's strength, but perhaps more than necessary.

 

so what exactly is the difference between this bar and any other FSTB?

 

exactly, to sum it up in one question. how is this better than my $20 OTTO FSTB?

 

10 chars.......

 

So the difference is looks. I doubt is siginifcantly better than the run of the mill FSTB. I do think it looks better.

 

The Alutec just has a lot more metal to it than any other FSTB I've seen, besides maybe the heavy duty one that Paradox Systems also sells (but that one's mounts would have covered my camber plates). A broader bar and broader mounting points mean better torsional rigidity, and this thing is pretty much as broad as they come. It's also made of some pretty thick metal... thicker than it looks in the pics, and certainly thicker than any other FSTB I've seen in person.

It looked like a much better option for those reasons, so I picked it up, and I got great results. I haven't tried a cheapo strut bar in my car, but I've handled a few of them and I can tell you for damn sure that the Alutec feels much, much sturdier... at least equal to the Stillen bar, from what I can tell. That's as close as I can come to a comparison, unfortunately. All I can tell you for sure is how big of an improvement it made.

Anyone with another FSTB around Philly, PA care to meet up and compare?

 

i got a courtesy nissan FSTB for 14 bucks. it makes a difference just fine

 

d00df00d,

I think we can all see and agree that its thicker than most if not all the FSTBs made for the maxima. Our contention or point of interest is more along justifying the cost vs. performance. Granted if you're going for looks, u got to pay to play, but on the performance side, I'm not sure there is a difference between that one, the Stillen one, the otto, or any other fstb.

THanks for the review though.

 

I dunno, man. Every single FSTB I've seen besides the Stillen one had a tangible amount of give to it when I just pounded on the middle of it with my fist. This one has less give than that when I take a hammer to it.

That said, I guess I can see how it might not make a big difference over a weaker FSTB for most people, since most people don't have coilovers...

I guess there's no way to tell without a back-to-back comparison. Might test this out at the upcoming Philly meet, if anyone's willing.

 

Somebody please loan him a cheapo FSTB to test against soon. Given more a little more positive feedback I'll buy one to test as well next month.

 

I'm on coilovers, and when I put on my Cattman FSTB, I didn't notice a damn thing. Just my opinion, but I think it's all in your head. I think you might be sub-contiously/unknowingly justifying your purchase. But then again, you said you were skeptical about noticing any improvements, so maybe there is difference, considering you're on different coilovers than me..

In the end, I think all FSTB do the same thing, if anything at all.
Throw on a cheap *** Ebay bar and report back to us.

 

My experience was the front felt more connected & predictable in corners, but stiffer and more harsh in a straight line. Generally anything that improves responsiveness increases discomfort. So it is a trade off, just like being lowered to some extent. Good for handling, bad for comfort. This is a minute change, not day/night, but if you know what to expect you will notice a difference.

 

Is there that much of a difference with the stage one and stage two? I wanted to get the stage two bar, but im not sure if its really worth the extra money....

 

Doesn't make sense... A stiffer chassis will improve responsiveness with absolutely no comfort penalty because the chassis won't soak up any bumps, so the suspension will be forced to do more of the work to absorb imperfections in the road instead of communicating them to the chassis. Same thing with reducing unsprung weight: it'll reduce inertia in the suspension, which will help the suspension do its job. It's just physics.

The only thing that trades comfort for response is a stiffer suspension setup (springs, shocks, sway bars, etc.).

 

I'm not familiar with the multi stage setup you're talking about. I have an Otto FSTB. But like d00df00d said, generally stiffening the chassis is a good thing. However...

d00df00d, I agree with you on the stiffer chassis in most cases, however this is just the front end. I think SFC's would be the better way to smooth out the bumps and stiffen the chassis b/c the front/rear are working together more. With just a FSTB, only the front strut tower is stiff, not the rest of the car. I have this setup and I realize now SFC's probably should have come before I even lowered the car. Then springs, then FSTB, etc.

 

That's a lower tie bar (LTB), not a front strut tower brace (FSTB).

Incorrect. It's always a good thing.

Carry on.

(Was this supposed to be a jab at my comment about the slightly better ride quality? Cuz I'm sticking by it....)

You're right that SFCs would make a bigger difference than a FSTB. The FSTB mostly only helps with big bumps that you hit with one wheel only, and with climbing up or down an incline at an angle (i.e. one wheel at a time). SFCs would help with almost all kinds of bumps.

But SFCs are not a substitute for a FSTB and/or LTB. Each one stiffens a different part of the chassis.

 

It's one thing to ask the suspension absorb the bumps and another to assume stiffer = more comfortable. The ride may be better in your case now and stiffness improves certain things, but that's why some people drive cadillacs and some drive sentras. (Old Caddy's I mean.) Those folks don't wanna know the road is below them. True, the suspension is responsible for much of that ride, but they're not designed to be light/stiff/responsive like a race car. See what I'm saying? For me, I can say a FSTB was not a bad decision, but I would have chosen SFC's first if I had known they were available.

 

Listen closely.

You feel bumps because some of the shock is communicated to the inside of the car. With me so far?

A flexible chassis will bend when you hit a bump. That means -- by definition -- that some of the bump is communicated to the interior. And like we said, when it's communicated to the inside, you feel it.

Now, a stiffer chassis will not bend. That means that when you hit a bump, less of the shock will be communicated to the interior. If your chassis is as stiff as possible, the only things that you'll really feel are vibrations and bumps big enough to jolt the entire freakin' car.

See what I mean? Simple physics.

A Cadillac has soft suspension and soft seats, but NOT a soft chassis. If it did have a soft chassis, all suspension softness in the world wouldn't save it from having a jarring ride. If you don't want to know the road is beneath you, you need to isolate yourself from it. That means your car's body needs to have as much inertia as possible, and your suspension needs to have as little inertia as possible. And that means a stiff chassis, lots of dead weight, soft springs, and as little unsprung weight as possible. Two of those goals are EXACTLY THE SAME FOR A SPORTS CAR (I really really hope you can tell which ones I mean).

Bet you never wondered why the BMW 3-series always handled so well but still had a really nice and smooth ride. Would you care to tell me it's coincidence that the 3-series also has one of the most torsionally rigid chassis of ANY mass-produced car EVER, apparently second only to the new MINI Cooper?

 

Dude, RELAX... : ) You don't have to get smart. We're just sharing ideas. I agree with everything you're saying except this: stiffer does not always mean more COMFORTABLE - not for every situation. I said "GENERALLY" what makes something more responsive = less comfortable. There must be a balance there however. If I had the nose of an indy car, carbon fiber, etc and multilink susp that I currently have with no other modification, I don't think that would be more comfortable. It certainly wouldn't be ideal. That's what I inferred so I guess I misunderstood. I agree that a rigid chassis (added SFC's for this car as I suggested...) would be the optimum way to design a car (and with more supple susp as you said...), but we know that's not always the case. In some cases, like this car, I believe SFC's would be a better place to start than a strut tower brace. Hey, I made that mistake too you know, so I'm not criticizing you. I'm just reinforcing basically what you're saying. I think we just misunderstood each other. Your concepts are accurate, however I'm simply saying I feel there is a certain order to design things. That's all. Sorry to get you wound up.

 

Aight. Just keep in mind, saying that someone is "assuming" something is usually a great way to put them on the defensive. But yeah, it's all good.

INITIATING DROP-IT PROCEDURE!!

 

dude, dude, dude, duuuuuuuuuuuuude...

to my best knowledge, paradox has been a distributing company for lot's of taiwan's products. the paradox body kit, interior dress-ups, cefiro headlights, and now this strut bar, is all from taiwan.

selling for 100 bucks over here, it's in an yahoo auction for around 60 bucks in US money (currency exchange rate)=2000 bucks taiwan. i asked my dad about this strut bar, he said a few guys bought it there, and said it'd only looked bigger, bulkier, and stronger than one's in USA (looked, not worked).

lot's of buyers complained that it is somewhat softer than the stainless steel strut bars we make in the US. it's very skeptical from lots of taiwanese people about this strut bar. also, paradox must have shipped these bars over in bulk, so they'd saved "some" shipping over the whole deal. after all, 100 bucks sounds kinda high for strut bars, but 100 bucks for strut bars that sell for 60, shipped overseas, it's prolly going to cost the same if you try to ship "one" strut bar over from taiwan by yourself.

http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/1136936304?

 

The welds look nice, which is good. Aluminum of the same dimensions can often be more resiliant than steel so I don't think you could assume... excuse me...lol, one could determine... it's softer just b/c it's from taiwan and not steel. Granted it is a little pricey though.

 

Huh.

I'm standing by my claims of this FSTB's solidity compared to other bars, based on what I can tell so far. But it seems it will be interesting to compare its effectiveness to those of other FSTBs if I get the chance this weekend.

 

I mean absolutely NO offense, however, what can you base your evaluation on? I don,t think you'll be able to generate any difference in skidpad results. "seat of the pants" evaluations are really skewed to opinions. You are pleased with your purchase and seem OK with cost= your choice was good. If lower cost bars make other people happy with results, I guess it really is just a matter of personal preference...which is cool, either way! No one is wrong here, all opinions are free in lieu of actual result data.

 

It is recomended that you install SFC's as a finishing touch....AFTER you already have FSTB, RSTB (if you want), RSB, LTB, anything else i missed other than full suspension?

It is specified on their website...

Im too lazy to check again, but i do remember them stating this very clearly...

 

You're absolutely correct. I am absolutely convinced of the improvements I saw, but in the end, it's all subjective.

What gives me confidence in talking about it is that I'm basing my assessment on how the car behaves on the roads I take twice a day, every day: the same corners, the same cracks in the pavement, everything. Trust me... if my environment were any less uniform, I'd be a lot more skeptical.

In terms of handling, I'd bet that my skidpad numbers would likely be no different overall with the addition of the FSTB because I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in overall grip levels. What I can tell you with confidence is that bumps that used to pull on the steering wheel or upset my car in the middle of a turn don't have as much of an effect any more. When I decided to really bomb some highway ramps, I used to notice that my car would get a little fidgety at some points, and that happens a lot less now. And the biggest difference -- the one that really got me singing the praises of this FSTB -- is, as I said, stuff like climbing up the angled entrance to the company parking lot, which is VASTLY different with the FSTB. Even the peace of mind that that's no longer possibly hurting my car is worth it to me.

It's that kinda stuff: things I noticed about my car in certain sections of my daily commute that I didn't like, and that now don't happen or are significantly lessened. So that's why I say: no more bump steer, more predictable handling, very slightly better ride, and a much more solid feeling.

Is that a good answer?

 

Wow. Just wait until you get a real suspension mod. I'm thinking you will be so overjoyed that you'll bust a vein in your brain and pass out for 2 weeks.

 

"Their" as in Warpspeed's website? I would be interested in reading an explanation of that if you find it. I don't know that I would trust one source for this information though either. My logic would be to start with something more neutral, like SFC's rather than stiffening one end or the other. That way you don't go from understeer to oversteer or v.v. or have other strange effects as many people have stated occur when they make these additions (eg, RSB). Makes sense to me, but I guess there are reasons for doing it another way. Take care, I've beat the horse enough!!

 

Jeff92se, are you speaking to me?

 

People "recommend" a lot of things, man. It escapes me why they would say that and it doesn't make a shred of sense, seeing as how SFCs fix the Max's biggest weakness....

If you wanted to do your suspension, it makes a TON more sense to do your springs and shocks or coilovers and all your chassis stiffening at the same time.

 

I don't know of anyone here that has/had the time/money to do their full suspension all at one time.

 

Well he DID buy/install k-sport coilovers before this...

 

I'm using Illuminas/Maxspeeds/OttoFSTB and '02 wheels (215 or 225?/50/16). I thought I should have some major ride improvement after those changes but I realized the other day after getting opinions that my tires/wheelsize are the weak link. It makes sense, but it's just somehting I overlooked. The handling wasn't as crisp/responsive/predictable as I wanted and the tires greatly affect those things obviously.
Sorry to get so off topic from the original post, but I think in the end if D00DF00D is going to go all the way with this he can't really go wrong. Maybe there are differences here and there in the brands he chooses, but overall the right mods along the way will really bring everything together.

 

Yep. It was brain-vein carnage.