96 no run-the saga continues

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10-19-2005, 05:57 PM

maxman12

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96 no run-the saga continues

I have a 96 with a new/used 98 engine that I cannot get to run due to ignition missfire/no fire. We have eliminated all posible electronic causes and tonight I'm poking around looking for something mechanical that is giving me too much rpm flutter when cranking and causing the ECU to not be able to recognize the RPG sensor pulse (I have already had the starter checked by a local rebuild shop). Anyway I did a compression test, all cylinders read 176-195psi except #2 which was only 82.
Could this give me enough pulsing when cranking to confues the ECU?
What would cause #2 low compression on an engine with only 78,000 mi?
Can the back head be removed without pulling the engine?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Jon

10-19-2005, 06:49 PM

njmodi

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#2 is actually the first cylinder in the front bank, i.e. looking at the engine from the front of the car, cyl#2 first cylinder from the passenger side on the bank closest to the radiator.... so this would be the "front" head.

Have you checked both crankshaft sensors and camshaft sensor? They are vital to correct startup timing.

Do you know the history of the engine you put in? Just because it only has 78k on it, doesn't mean it can't have blown a head-gasket or piston, etc. depending on how it was treated previously.

10-20-2005, 05:52 PM

maxman12

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Sorry, I id'd it wrong, it's the #3 cyl.
The engine came from a junk yard. It is warranteed (they will give me another one if I bring this one back) and was supposedly bench tested. I just wish I had checked compression before all the work of putting this engine in. What I'm going to do is see if the junker will give me $back and I'll do the valves (if thats what it is) with the engine in the car, if you can even do that.....
Anyway We can't get it to run, 0407 code keeps coming up but the electronics, grounds and harness have been checked 8 ways from sunday. I'm running out of ideas....
Jon

10-20-2005, 06:03 PM

njmodi

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0407 is one of the crank position sensors - there are 2 of them - you know that right? one is in the transmission bell housing and on is right below the crank pulley in the timing chain cover.

0407 is the REF sensor - I believe thats the one under the crankshaft pulley on the passenger side of the engine bay... but double check.

10-20-2005, 06:03 PM

njmodi

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Oh yeah - your car WILL NOT start if you have one or more bad crankshaft position sensors... so that could be your problem.

10-20-2005, 06:20 PM

CystumMax

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do you have your 96 ECU in there? 98 ecu is a lot diffrent then 96. As njmodi said you need to have both crankshaft posistion sensors working.

10-21-2005, 05:50 PM

maxman12

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Crankshaft sensor REF is new, harness has been checked for continuity and ground. I read voltage from REF at ECU when cranking. Cam sensor checks ok, harness ok, and I read voltage at ECU also when cranking. Crank sensor Pos tests good and tach works. I believe the tach runs off this sensor thru the ECU. The one thing I havn't done is test for POS signal at the ECU. I'll do that tonight. ECU is original to 96 and I tried another one and got the same problem so ECU is probably ok.
When I swapped engines the new engine was stripped of all elex and everything was transported from the old so everything should be compatible with the ECU. Puzzling ain't it........

10-24-2005, 04:46 PM

maxman12

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This would help me.....If someone could read the ac voltage bet. pins 44 and 25 at the ECU with a analog multimeter on a good running setup so that I could compare with my readings, it would help greatly.

11-06-2005, 07:38 AM

maxman12

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IT WAS THE FRIGGIN STARTER........Towed it today behind my truck and it started in a flash. Seems to be running ok, lots of smoke from the oil burning off the exhaust from when the old engine blew!!! And I had the starter checked by the local auto elec shop to eliminate it as a source of problem way back. They must have missed something. What a bunch of wasted time, but I sure am a lot smarter that I used to be.
Thanks for all the help.
Jon

11-06-2005, 07:56 AM

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njmodi

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Glad you got the car up and running again.

11-06-2005, 08:28 AM

#11

Nismo3112

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Quote:

Originally Posted by maxman12

Just curious, why did your old engine blow ?

11-06-2005, 11:18 AM

#12

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and, how is it running with the low compression reading from cyl. three?

11-07-2005, 03:15 PM

#13

maxman12

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Not quite....Spent 168.00 for a new/rebuilt starter and 49.00 for a battery and still no start. Same symptoms, the ecu is not seeing a consistent signal when cranking. I can't believe this, I'm about to roll the car into the cape cod canal.

11-10-2005, 05:14 PM

#14

maxman12

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So I took an extra battery and powered the starter from this external source. The regular battery stays in place and runs everything but the starter. Turned the ignition on and touched the solenoid lead to + on the outside battery and we are cranking. After some time it did start but the external battery was not fully charged and it did not restart and so it hasn't run long enough for the ecu to settle in. I am recharging the battery and will try again later on tonight.
I am trying to prove that the starter will start the engine. If it does I will look for something in the starting circuit that is limiting or preventing voltage to the ecu.
Just keep picking away at it.........

11-12-2005, 03:44 AM

#15

maxman12

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Latest update... With the starter and starter solenoid powered from an external battery and the rest of the electrical system left intact and both batteries fully charged I can get the engine to start but not easily, it still burps and farts out of timing while cranking. Once running it is smooth and power and acceleration are good.
Any ideas?

11-18-2005, 02:46 PM

#16

maxman12

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Any Ideas Guys.......

11-18-2005, 03:32 PM

#17

THEJEFFERATOR

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how bout the answer to.... how the first motor blew, so we can eliminate any previous problems.

11-20-2005, 09:15 AM

#18

maxman12

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The first motor threw the #1 rod out the side of the engine at 154,000 miles in downtown Boston, it was pretty spectacular. I blame most of the failure on the racing clutch that we put in it. Without the energy absorbing radial springs every shift was a shock to the drive train, like smacking it with a hammer. We took the clutch out after 8 months but I guess metal fatigue had set in. This engine was also driven hard by my son, many trips to the red line. These are good engines but they won't stand up to prolonged hard use. I don't blame the engine, it didn't owe us anything.