what NOT to do in a manual
#41
I don't think it was specifically said, but engine braking itself is just letting the engine (compression?) slow you down, doesn't really have anything directly to do with the clutch. I do it if I feel like it, and usually pop the car - not a Maxima - into second gear around 5k and let my speed burn off, and it slows me down at about the same pace as the traffic around me. Letting the clutch absorb the full force of a downshift without rev-matching is probably one of the worst things that can be done to it, next to daily driving in San Francisco. It's also a bike-riding habit of never being out of gear if I can help it, so I can smoothly get out of the way in a hurry if I need to.
For smooth starts, I think it leaned pretty heavily on just knowing the friction point of the clutch. Something I make all of the people I've taught do is to get in an empty parking lot, and get the car moving with the clutch engaged without ever touching the gas. Once you've got that down, the rest is pretty easy, and the only tricky bits afterwards are hills and heel-toe downshifting.
I don't know if you really have to take your foot off the gas before clutching in to downshift, but it's a good habit to get into, I'm guessing. I tend to do it for big downshifts like 4-2 while braking, but dropping from 5th to 4th on the freeway while just leaving my foot barely on the gas pretty much rev-matches it perfectly anyways.
edit: whee typos
For smooth starts, I think it leaned pretty heavily on just knowing the friction point of the clutch. Something I make all of the people I've taught do is to get in an empty parking lot, and get the car moving with the clutch engaged without ever touching the gas. Once you've got that down, the rest is pretty easy, and the only tricky bits afterwards are hills and heel-toe downshifting.
I don't know if you really have to take your foot off the gas before clutching in to downshift, but it's a good habit to get into, I'm guessing. I tend to do it for big downshifts like 4-2 while braking, but dropping from 5th to 4th on the freeway while just leaving my foot barely on the gas pretty much rev-matches it perfectly anyways.
edit: whee typos
#42
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
noob here as well....i wanna ask about down shift and rev-matching,
so the steps are:
1st - foot off gas
2nd - clutch in
3rd - foot on gas to rev-match and down shift
4th - clutch out
right?
but do i have to take my foot off the gas (step 1) before i put the clutch in?
so the steps are:
1st - foot off gas
2nd - clutch in
3rd - foot on gas to rev-match and down shift
4th - clutch out
right?
but do i have to take my foot off the gas (step 1) before i put the clutch in?
#43
Originally Posted by tavarish
wow.....after watching those vids...something's very certain...i need a new clutch that grabs alot better. Also, I need to improve my technique if i'm ever gonna do the 1/4 mile thing.
Originally Posted by MorpheusZero
The only thing that he does that's easier in an E39 M5 than our "puny" 3L VQs is a smooth takeoff at 1krpm. It's by no means hard in our cars, but that 5L V8 has an incredible amount of inertia, and it's very easy to get the car going with very little throttle input as compared to ours.
Dave
#44
So I'm pretty lazy, and I've found that by far the smoothest, easiest starts for me from a dead stop is starting in 2nd gear. (especially in traffic with no need for fast acceleration) Of course I don't do this on any kind of upslope - only down slope or level.
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
#45
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
Which brings up the point of flywheels. Light flywheels will reduce the inertia even further - which helps when you're in gear and acclerating WOT, but makes shifts and blips and rev matching that much less forgiving.
Dave
Dave
Originally Posted by darqice
So I'm pretty lazy, and I've found that by far the smoothest, easiest starts for me from a dead stop is starting in 2nd gear. (especially in traffic with no need for fast acceleration) Of course I don't do this on any kind of upslope - only down slope or level.
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
as long as you don't slip the clutch too badly (just don't change your mind and decide to take off quickly while the clutch is still slipping, because you WILL burn it), it won't do you any harm. Yes, it's worse for the clutch since you will need to generate more heat respectively than if you started out in first, but it's no big deal. Clutches can generally take a lot of abuse as long as you have shy of 200hp/tq.
It seems like people are being more cautious than is necessary in this thread. We have VQ30s, not S62s. I don't think anyone has gone through a clutch in 5k miles and most last for well over 60k--on occasion, even three times that. The reason they were being more cautious with the M5 is that the clutch is designed to be soft and still has to handle 400hp/tq, since the car's still a saloon and is meant to retain some grace instead of just pure muscle. People drive those cars like a bat out of hell, because they're also fun on a track, and they burn up their clutch. I guess that's just my $.02 though.
P.S. all watching those videos really did to me was make me lust after the E39 M5 even more.... you're all a bunch of bastards for that.
#46
Originally Posted by darqice
So I'm pretty lazy, and I've found that by far the smoothest, easiest starts for me from a dead stop is starting in 2nd gear. (especially in traffic with no need for fast acceleration) Of course I don't do this on any kind of upslope - only down slope or level.
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
#47
Originally Posted by darqice
So I'm pretty lazy, and I've found that by far the smoothest, easiest starts for me from a dead stop is starting in 2nd gear. (especially in traffic with no need for fast acceleration) Of course I don't do this on any kind of upslope - only down slope or level.
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?
is is bad / that bad to do this?
Dave
#48
someone said that (example) if you are at a red light waiting for it to turn green, to keep the car in neutral with clutch out.....i dont see what the problem is if you sit there at the light with the clutch all the way to the floor, in 1st gear, and with the brakes on (depending if your on a hill or not)
#49
Originally Posted by rome06
someone said that (example) if you are at a red light waiting for it to turn green, to keep the car in neutral with clutch out.....i dont see what the problem is if you sit there at the light with the clutch all the way to the floor, in 1st gear, and with the brakes on (depending if your on a hill or not)
#50
Originally Posted by MorpheusZero
It won't exactly murder your clutch, but it will wear a certain part (some type of bearing, I believe, maybe throwout?) faster than it would wear normally. Don't lose any sleep over it.
#51
when starting off... dont rev past 1000 when u start going, ppl who rev to lik 2.5 and start to slip the clutch to get goign on a normal baises kill the clutch so its very important to keep the rpms down when goign and between gears
#52
Originally Posted by rome06
someone said that (example) if you are at a red light waiting for it to turn green, to keep the car in neutral with clutch out.....i dont see what the problem is if you sit there at the light with the clutch all the way to the floor, in 1st gear, and with the brakes on (depending if your on a hill or not)
#53
Originally Posted by MilesA
Sounds like you are afraid of stalling the engine, that's why you rev it up so much?
Try this - go to a big, empty parking lot. Maybe a church or a school outside normal hours. Your goal is to improve your smoothness when launching the car from a standstill. On a flat surface, engine idling at around 800 RPM, let the clutch out slowly, when it begins to engage, press the gas to hold the RPMs steady while you let the clutch out all the way. Now the car will be moving along in first gear at a walking pace. Now clutch in, brakes on, stop. Repeat many times until you are smooth and confident you won't stall the engine.
For your next challenge, find a slight hill in your parking lot. Repeat the first exercise. You may need to rev the engine up slightly (1000-1200 RPM) when the clutch is let out. Repeat until you are smooth. Try a steeper hill. You will find it becomes pretty easy after a little while.
Other tips:
-don't ride the clutch. If you press the clutch in, press it all the way in. If you let the clutch out, be quick about it.
-rev matching applies to upshifts and downshifts, master rev matching
-no need to downshift if you are coming to a stop, use your brakes
-it is fine to downshift so you are in the right gear for your situation (need more power, etc.)
-don't lug the engine, if your RPMs are too low, downshift. You are lugging the engine if your RPMs are too low when you put a load on the engine. Keep RPMs over 2000 when accelerating, climbing hills, etc.
-your power band is 3,500 - 6000 RPM or so, don't be afraid to rev your engine out when you need power. Keep the revs in the power band if you need to. Otherwise, cruising 2,000 -3,000 RPM will give you better economy.
-keep the car in neutral when stopped at stoplights, waiting for someone at the curb, etc.
Have fun with it!
Try this - go to a big, empty parking lot. Maybe a church or a school outside normal hours. Your goal is to improve your smoothness when launching the car from a standstill. On a flat surface, engine idling at around 800 RPM, let the clutch out slowly, when it begins to engage, press the gas to hold the RPMs steady while you let the clutch out all the way. Now the car will be moving along in first gear at a walking pace. Now clutch in, brakes on, stop. Repeat many times until you are smooth and confident you won't stall the engine.
For your next challenge, find a slight hill in your parking lot. Repeat the first exercise. You may need to rev the engine up slightly (1000-1200 RPM) when the clutch is let out. Repeat until you are smooth. Try a steeper hill. You will find it becomes pretty easy after a little while.
Other tips:
-don't ride the clutch. If you press the clutch in, press it all the way in. If you let the clutch out, be quick about it.
-rev matching applies to upshifts and downshifts, master rev matching
-no need to downshift if you are coming to a stop, use your brakes
-it is fine to downshift so you are in the right gear for your situation (need more power, etc.)
-don't lug the engine, if your RPMs are too low, downshift. You are lugging the engine if your RPMs are too low when you put a load on the engine. Keep RPMs over 2000 when accelerating, climbing hills, etc.
-your power band is 3,500 - 6000 RPM or so, don't be afraid to rev your engine out when you need power. Keep the revs in the power band if you need to. Otherwise, cruising 2,000 -3,000 RPM will give you better economy.
-keep the car in neutral when stopped at stoplights, waiting for someone at the curb, etc.
Have fun with it!
thats how i learned and now i am MaStER ShIFtEr ...no really though open parking lots are your best friends. one thing that also helped me with starting from a standstill is to learn where the clutch point is. turn the car on, in first, and just let the clutch out slowly until you feel where that engaging point is and before it starts to die, put the clutch back in. do that over and over until you get a feel for it. seriously, i was driving my uncles truck and i went around the block like i would normally drive, sort of like you, rev it up to like 2K so you know it wont stall. my uncle then told me about the clutch point, and the 2nd time i went around the block, i was driving with no problem at all. it just takes time and practice in a place where there is no traffic. good luck with it too
#54
learn how to shift with out the clutch..if you can do that..you can do anything else!
oh and driving the car can wear the clutch out so be careful...
geez just drive around for like 5 days strait...and figure it out..if it feels ruff then your doen it wrong...Other then that all thease guys can tell you what not to do or do..just go out and drive it... It takes common sense, and pratice to figure out whats bad for the car.
oh and driving the car can wear the clutch out so be careful...
geez just drive around for like 5 days strait...and figure it out..if it feels ruff then your doen it wrong...Other then that all thease guys can tell you what not to do or do..just go out and drive it... It takes common sense, and pratice to figure out whats bad for the car.
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