Thanks man i'll try that 2marrow do the wires have to run to the starter?

 

I ran one from the negitive battery terminal to one of the bolts that hold the starter to the engine and one wire from the negitive terminal to one of the bottom tranny boltslike in that picture where they are circled. I think these would be the most important wires to do. If this doesn't help your car then you have something else wrong. Hope it works.

 

ok i only had time today to do the one from the negative terminal to the starter and i tired to start it and the wire melted???

 

That's crazy, the ground to the tranny will help the most. Did you use one of these bolts to mount the wires?

 

Crazy97, you probably gonna laugh at this but I connected the negative terminal to the cable above in the pic , thinking it was connecting to the carbody. It wasn't untill yesterday when i finaly managed to uninstall starter from engine that i realised that it was a positive and not negative. I just hope the motor still runs..havent tested it yet. I'm cleaning the motor today then installing it later on.

Yo know what.... I think the initial problem got fixed, then when i connected the negative cable, obviously it didnt help.

I will post more pics etc later on tonight or tomorrow morning.
cheers.

 

ooops nope i used a different one ill try it this weekend

 

ok be sure show to post it ASAP thanx anyway

 

I think a good thick wire to the transmission is the most important one. After thinking about it I'm not sure if it makes a difference to have a wire going to the starter also because the starter is bolted to the trans side anyway.

 

Jeez! Here's a funnier one for ya-
I was going to upgrade my wire to the tranny with a bigger one the other day and I was in the act of taking the battery out and with an extra long extention on the ratchet, I accedentally touched the positive terminal and the hard clutch bleeder line that runs up to the top of the strut tower at the same time and sparks flew putting a HOLE in the clutch line!

 

I was thinking about that too. I think that some of you (and I) put on too many ground wires. Some are redundant and not necessary. But I am just sooooo happy it works, I don't even care. But, technically, if the main problem is due to the fact that the starter isn't grounding properly through the transmission, at the bell housing, then wouldn't we really only need one "jumper strap" cable connecting the two halves of the trans?

 

I'm thinking about doing just that. I just need to get my clutch line repaired now.

 

With the warmer weather, I took the time to regrease my 11 tooth starter. While the starter was out, I sanded down the mating surface and the casing surface where my grounding cable contacts. Talk about fast starts since then! Can't tell you how good I feel about the car now that this starting issue is fixed... We will collectively have to reference this thread to others until it is common knowledge that this is a big problem as your car ages.

 

I too got the itch to make some adjustments on my ground wires and other stuff with the warmer weather but as soon as I got my hands on the car I did something really stupid, touched the pos terminal and the clutch bleeder line while using a long extension on the ratchet because I was too lazy to take off the extension after removing the air box, anyway I blew a hole in the clutch hardline and made the car undrivable for most of the week Bought a $50 flare tool so I could cut and repair the bleeder line then after getting that done I spent 2 hours bleeding the clutch and could not get the pressure back in the pedal. So on a hunch I replaced the clutch master cylinder ($100 at napa)that was working fine before and FINALLY I got the clutch working again. Appearently I sent a shock to something inside the master cyl. and broke it

So in the last months I've been suffering a long crank and a limp pedal!

 

You don't disconnect the ground from the negative battery terminal when doing this stuff? Last time I was too lazy to do so, you would swear I was arc welding ...

 

In fact I was going to take the battery out of the engine and that's what I was doing when I made fireworks! I just got done changing my ground wire setup. Now it's (2) 10 gage wires from that same tranny bolt to the spot on the motor where the neg battery cable attatches to. This may clear up the occasional hiccup I have had lately during starts.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

to add to that... I've tested today and yes i've blown the solonoid. When ***ing the motor would spin but it was not moving , not locking up.
I'm gettin a new starter .. will see if i can get away with a starter but usually they come together.

 

. sorry.

 

Ha ha ha! Guess the org is drunk. That's funny. You can delete your own posts if you want so if you don't want all those only you can edit them.

 

I did some messing around this weekend and discovered that the wire to the starter bolt is very important. I still had the occasional quick pause during cranking, with the thin 14 gage wire going to the starter. I took the wire off the starter thinking it wouldn't matter, but it made things worse by removing that wire. I now have 2 10 gage wires going to the starter from the negitive cable where it bolts into the body, and 2 10 gage wires from the tranny bolt to where the negitive cable bolts to the engine. This is a much improved setup. Why 2 wires? Because I can't seem to fine heavier gage than 10 gage and 2 is better than one.

 

I don't know about the inland states but most marine stores (west marine, boater's world, etc) have heavier gauge cable suitable for auto use.

you can also use an amplifier wiring kit. they usually have 8 and 6 gauge wire. Some auto stores sell long battery cables down to 2 gauge.

One 10 would have supplied enough current. Two 10s is overkill but if you did it you did it.

 

Where are people running their ground wires with an automatic tranny? I tried this today and ended up running the ground to one of the bolts on the tranny right behind the plastic in the front driver side wheel well. The pictures were of a MT so they were no help to me. I did not notice a big difference after installing the two grounds but I was wondering if I should run one to the other side of the tranny or maybe just move it to another location. I saw some discussions about bridging the two sides of the tranny and I do not think I am doing that right now.

 

Run a wire to your starter. That made the biggest difference for me. I ended up having to run 2 10 gage wires to the starter to eliminate any occasional problems.

 

I ran a 10 ga wire to the rear bolt of my starter as well as the tranny. Maybe I should try running another to the other starter bolt and to the other side of the tranny. Also, how fast is everyone's car starting? My family owns a couple of VQ's in other vehicles and they all start before even turning over twice. Is that what everyone's car is doing now?

 

Has it improved since you ran it to the starter? Mine starts really fast now.

 

Ditto on the starting fast and ditto on the starter bolt ground being the one to focus in on. Hard to say if it starts as fast as when it was new--I'd like to say not, but I think it's pretty close. Certainly less than a second...

 

Well, I have been monitoring this forum and seem to have the same/similar problem with hard (if not impossible starts). To date, I have done the following:
1) Change spark plugs
2) Remove/clean throttle body.
3) Remove/clean IACV
4).......

Tonight, I removed the starter (8 tooth starter/bummer), greased the planetary gears, sanded the mating surfaces, grounded a starter bolt (14mm one) and grounded the tranny (on the front of the tranny (auto)). The grounds wires were the 6 gauge 19" from Wally's, and the ground point used was the battery ground cable/body connection by the batterry tray.

Stll the same.... spin, cough/hiccup/pause, spin etc. as described above.

I did manage to get it started though ( a rare occurance lately), and played around.

First, I disconnected the crank position sensor plug (while the car was running) (the one on the tranny that is grouped with two other connectors and the plug is close to the starter.) I expected the engine to die. I did not (is this normal?). Didn;t miss a hitch, no perceptible change in idle. Plugged it back in (scratching head).

Next I went to the front of the motor and disconnected the cam position sensor (again expecting the car to die.) It didn't die. But, when I plugged the cam sensor back in, the engine died. Now I am really perplexed.

Second miracle of the night: I got the car started again!. Went back to the can sensor and unplugged it. (No change in idle etc.). When pluggin it back in the engine gave a little "pause" (lowered RPM) momentarily, but did not die. I did this again, with the same results. Third time I plugged it back in, the engine died.

What do you folks think, based on the above? I am inclined to think that the motor/starter was spinning faster, which help with the two miracles tonight (getting the car to start twice), because of the grounds and the greasing of the gears etc. And perhaps the causes a bit more signal from the cam/crank position sensors.

One other time, I was cranking the car and checking for spark from one of the coil packs and there was none. That day, I also witnessed a miracle and the car started, and while the car was running, I took a coil pack loose and looked at the spark and seemed REALLY strong (like it would spark ~1"). I did this just to ensure I was checking for spark the correctly the first time. So I pretty much know it is not getting spark (or very bad/infrequent spark) when cranking and it won't start.

Based on your experiences, what to you think I should do/try next?

 

Macinco, How does your negitive cable look, any sign of discoloring inside? I cleaned up all the areas on the body where the ground wires bolted into. I did run an extra wire from the upper intake to the timing chain to the body. I'd hate to see you do all that and not have it work. It does sound like you did everything right. I don't know what to tell you.

 

The ground cable looks nominally clean at the battery post (and must be pretty decent because the engine spins well). It was a little dirty looking (I would not say it was corrosion/green though) where it bolts to the car by the battery tray. I did notice that it "bolts to a painted surface" there, so if this is indeed a body ground, it must be via the bolt. I did not sand the paint off this area, as it would rust/corrode. (Should I take the paint off this to bare metal?)

If I interpreted what you said above, you ran a ground wire from the intake manifold to the timing chain cover and then to the body. I assume the intent here was to ensure the cam position sensor had good ground? I have removed and looked at this sensor, and I am not sure this (and the crank position sensors get ground from the body.

I am also starting to wonder (after looking again at the Haynes manual) that I was dealing with the crank position sensor on the far right(drivers) side of the transaxle. Although I have removed/cleaned this sensor and it is indeed a magnetic pickup type sensor. But the Haynes manual picture for 95-98 engines indicates the "Crankshaft position sensor (REF sensor)" is on the front of the engine (arrow is near the camshaft sensor). But the text says "The REF crankshaft position sensor is located on the oil pan, near the crankshaft damper". And... (The POS crankshaft position sensor is located on the transaxle housing facing the gear teeth of the flywheel/flexplate.)

So I am going to go looking for these and ensure they are properly connected/etc.

It should also be noted that the hard starting was present (but not nearly as frequent or severe) before I swapped the tranny. I used a 97 tranny (which I understood to be no problem) but never removed the flexplate from the engine...so the flexplate is the same as before.

 

[QUOTE=macinco]The ground cable looks nominally clean at the battery post (and must be pretty decent because the engine spins well). It was a little dirty looking (I would not say it was corrosion/green though) where it bolts to the car by the battery tray. I did notice that it "bolts to a painted surface" there, so if this is indeed a body ground, it must be via the bolt. I did not sand the paint off this area, as it would rust/corrode. (Should I take the paint off this to bare metal?)QUOTE]

I did, it will rust but I plan on cleaning it up later and then using some sort of sealant or spray paint on it to cover up the exposed metal.


[QUOTE=macinco]If I interpreted what you said above, you ran a ground wire from the intake manifold to the timing chain cover and then to the body. I assume the intent here was to ensure the cam position sensor had good ground? I have removed and looked at this sensor, and I am not sure this (and the crank position sensors get ground from the body. QUOTE]

Yup, ground comes from the body where it connects with the negitive cable on the drivers side. I figured it woulnd't hurt.


[QUOTE=macinco]I am also starting to wonder (after looking again at the Haynes manual) that I was dealing with the crank position sensor on the far right(drivers) side of the transaxle. Although I have removed/cleaned this sensor and it is indeed a magnetic pickup type sensor. But the Haynes manual picture for 95-98 engines indicates the "Crankshaft position sensor (REF sensor)" is on the front of the engine (arrow is near the camshaft sensor). But the text says "The REF crankshaft position sensor is located on the oil pan, near the crankshaft damper". And... (The POS crankshaft position sensor is located on the transaxle housing facing the gear teeth of the flywheel/flexplate.) QUOTE]

The crank pos sensor is on the part of the engine/trans facing the front bumper and the little ref sensor is right on the oil pan near the main crank pully.

 

WTF? Tried to seperate quotes....I hate computers!

 

OK.... I did find the the crank pos sensor (right were you said it was Crazy97). It actually bolts to the motor, but the hole is actually half in the motor block and half in the bellhousing. I took the sensor out, and it had some metal shavings on it, and it also looked like the outer housng may have been dinged. I don't particularly remember removing/dealing with this sensor during the tranny swap, so it is quite possible it may have gotten bashed a bit when R&Ring the tranny. (Can't think of any other possible way it could have gotten a scar on it.).

In any case, I cleaned the shavings off and put it back in, and the car did seem to be trying to fire a little more right off the bat. In fact, I got the car to start 3 times this time fairly quickly (in the course of a couple minutes. Still obviously not good, but I do think its better. But, the motor is a little warm from previous running, and the engine is cranking faster due to earlier grounding/greasing/sanding etc. So it is really tough to be conclusive. I did notice there is a little slop in the hole for this sensor. The position could be slightly adjusted as the bolt is tightened. I am toying with the idea of sanding a little off either the engine mounting surface or the sensor to get the pickup closer to the gear. It is not the actual flywheel teeth this thing is picking up. It is a much thinner (less than 1/8" thick) gear. Wish I had looked at this closer when doing the tranny last year.
If I have to start buying sensors, this is where I am starting. Sure wish i had a known good sensor to borrow before buying one...LOL