crazy97

iTrader: (1)

If you have no good grounds, you have no running car. We have grounds, but apperently they corrode or break enough to cause this starting problem. When they erode again I will replace them as needed.

enforcer

Mishmosh, i will take a closer look at the starter this evening.

here is what i ovserved yesterday:
1) Tried to start normally, no use.
2) Push start - started it up with the screeching noise(noise is norm - Like MM said, starter may need re-greesing)
3) This time though, I sprayed the belts (front, right side) with WD-40 as in the pic below.



4) Turned it off and quickly started it, it worked.
5) Turned it off and on about 4-5 times, about 5-10 sec gap in each restart.. it worked.
6) turned it off and started it after 5 minutes and it worked, no noise.
7) So im not sure what the prob could be. I've already taken the Air-filter out to get to the starter motor, couldnt work any more, will check it again tomorrow.
8) May be i shold just put it back since it was starting ... but im curious.
9) I will update here. The alarm was still not going.. will talk to the alarm installer asking how to bypass it. Very odd.

Will let you guys know. thanks.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

You put W-D40 on your drive belts????

enforcer

ptatohed , is that a good thing or a bad thing... coz it did get the car starting again!!!!

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

I'm just using personal judgement here (no facts) but I would have to believe that it would be bad to get any kind of lubricant on your belts. The last thing you want is your belts slipping. They need to grip tight. I can't explain why it helped you, my guess would be because perhaps while spraying the belts you also sprayed another part(s) that actually should be sprayed. ?

C MAX

iTrader: (4)

or the belt was so tight the car wouldnt stay on so by lubricating it allowed it to slip a little and run. try this while the cars running, tighten the belt slowly and the motor will start to slow down then shut off from being overtightened.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Well guys, I'm going to try your grounding advice tonight (fingers and toes crossed). If this works I will be the happiest guy in the world.

Just a few questions:
Before investing in nice 4 gauge cable, could I use some 14 gauge I have lying around? (I have no problem with spending the money on nice cables if it will solve my problem, I just want to make sure that it does solve my problem first).

Let me recap and make sure I understand: You are running a ground cable/wire from the negative battery terminal to one of the two starter bolts that hold the starter to the engine (or do you run your wire to the actual negative terminal on the starter?) and a cable/wire from the negative terminal to one of the bolts that holds the two halves of the transmission together. Is this correct?

Thanks guys.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Yes. Use one of the bolts that holds the starter to the engine. I have 14 gage and 12 gage wire that should be fine. Check the condition of your negitive cable to body connection, see if it looks ok.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Good luck ptatohed. I hope you share similar results. I read your de-modding of your 96 story with a chuckle... Over the past year, I was resigned to get rid of my 95 out of sheer frustration. Got rid of my MEVI/JWT ecu and most of my mods. Even the stock intake was put back on. I basically was ready to dump her at any moment. Now that the car is starting beautifully, I wish I had all my mods back!

And thanks Crazy for starting up this thread--most other threads did not quite sound like my starting problem and certainly you came the closest to me in the parts replacement dept. I knew your solution was probably going to mine as well. It has been so long since the car has started with such consistency that you don't even have to think about it--it's just a given now!

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

BTW, if you are replacing your stock grounds (mainly alternator to battery, and engine to body to battery) as well as adding these two, be on the lookout for these nice battery terminals with a nice wingnut to secure the fat O-ring terminations. Cable and terminals can be had at Walmart or any auto supply retailer.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

hey, im having some trouble....at first, my car did the same thing yours are doing, it misses and has alot of trouble starting, but it started not starting at all this week. I bought a new battery, grounded 4 points (tranny, starter bolt, intake manifold, and neg battery cable) and had to PUSH start the car because of all the fuel that was in there...it stumbled very badly, and ran very rough for the first few minutes. I parked the car, and then tried to start it again. It would not start, it stumbles BADLY, and the RPM's fluctuate to 1k rpms when trying to start, I know the tach isn't supposed to move, what sensor could this be? Before I push started the car, I replaced the cam sensor and crank sensor. Maybe one of them were bad...I'm just pissed I spent all this time sanding down grounding points, buying a new battery, just to have the damn thing not work. Has anyone had this problem?

I'm gonna ground the tranny a bit better tomorrow, but I doubt that's the problem....my car doesnt seem to start at all.

enforcer

check the voltage across the alternator.

sorry cant help much im in shyt as well.

enforcer

i made a booboo.


So finally i clear everythign to get to the starter motor only to find I cant turn the 2nd nut loose. 1st one was easy but the other one wouldnt budge. I gave up after 30-45 minutes on that single screw.

After putting everything back, I realised a tube... im not sure where it went initially? Pretty lost now...... i just wanna close it all and start it up.. if it works then sweet else im probably gonna end up taking it to the mechanic.

In the pic below, where does the tube go ?
Appreciate it.
Thanks.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Enforcer, I would recommend using a breaker bar to loosen the tough bolt (usually the 17mm one)--it is torqued very tight. That tube you are showing just vents to air--it is fine as is. Interesting that you have a variable intake over there, and on a 96 no less.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Most with this grounding issue can always get the car to start. Does the car seem to crank normally and just run rough initially when it fires up? Make sure some of the basics were done: clean air filter, fuel filter, throttle body clean... If the problem cropped up this winter, I would also replace the ECTS--the car should idle around 1500 or a little above initially when cold.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear you are having trouble tavarish. Something that I did hear that if you can't get it started the first couple of times, hold the gas pedal down and then try to start it. This keeps more gas from pumping thru the injectors while you crank the engine.

This may be a dumb ?, but how old are your spark plugs?

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Enforcer-
I use a pipe to slide over the end of my ratchet. A heavier 1/2 in ratchet also works better on tough jobs.

A 2.0 maxima? What kind of mileage do you get with that?

Juicey

Enforcer,

Take a hammer and knock the bolt a couple times. Due to limited space you won't be able to hit it too hard. It's an old machinist trick. Over time the threads get stuck due to heating and cooling. This worked for me and didn't damage the bolt at all. I used a metal hammer.

While you're replacing the starter (which fixed my problem) clean the TB since you are starring right into it while you turn the starter bolts.

Also is that battery you have stock for the car? It looks a little small compared to the tray it's sitting on.

BTW: Thanks all for the explanation! I hope having replaced my starter my ground isn't worse off! I may have to add "new ground to starter and tranny" as mods!!

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Guys, I am very mad at all of you. Because of this thread, I lost my "workbench". That's right. I'm going to have to remove the moving blanket/quilt from the hood of my '96 that just sits parked in my garage so that I can actually use it because..........

...my car starts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES YES YES YES YES!!!

Thank you sooooo much guys. I was the happiest guy on earth last night (still am)! You don't know what this means to me. I was so bummed when my starting problem started 3+ years ago. I couldn't use the car, yet I couldn't sell the car. Terrible position to be in. I was very close a few times to parting her out. Sincere thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. You guys have outsmarted who-knows-how-many Nissan and speed shop techs. Time to register and insure her and start using her again!

I simply used household AC copper wire since I have a reel lying around at home (I'm a cheap bastard). I slit open the white jacket and took out the insulated white and black copper wires. I jacked up the car and I ran one wire from a 14mm bolt on the passenger side half of the tranny and one from a 14mm bolt on the driver side half of the tranny. Then I ran a wire from the 17mm starter bolt. I also thoroughly cleaned all bolts, washers, holes and areas around the holes with sandpaper, cleanser and rubbing alcohol. I ran all three wires to the negative battery cable. I didn't bother putting the whole intake back together, I just snapped the air filter box back together. I went to start it. If my starting before was say a "D-", then my first start was a "C+". But that could be because she has been sitting for months, my gas is old, etc. But I used to get a "C" start every once in a while so nothing was proven effective yet. I let her run for 5-10 minutes just because it hasn't been driven in a while. Well... every start after that was an "A"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing that after the $100s (totalling over $2000) that I put into the car (in vain) it was a free fix that ultimately worked! (although probably should go out and buy some nice 4 gauge ground wire now).

It was one of those situations where I didn't know wether to laugh or cry. I was so happy to have my car back but I couldn't help thinking of the money and time I have spent. Countless parts from AutoZone and Nissan (plugs, starter(s), sensors, fuel pump, etc., etc. The fender damage I encured while trying to tow my car to a mechanic. The ~$1100 spent on mechanics. The insurance premiums I continued to pay for the first 8 months until I realized I better stop paying insurance. The $800 '86 Nova I had to buy (and drive) until I eventually bought my SHO (which I probably never would have bought). All the mods I had done or purchased to do to my '96 were all out the window ($2000 bulletproof tranny, '97 bumpers, etc.). I couldn't live without a Max so I had to by a '99 (although, I can't say I regret it because I love it and it has a few more features than my '96). The time spent transfering my supercharger and any other items I could from my '96 to my '99 (although that is actually fun stuff). All the crap I had to hear from my friends and family "You never should have put that darn supercharger on your car" (I knew it wasn't the SC but they wouldn't listen). Anyway, the negative list goes on but I need to dwell on the positive. My car is up and running and I should forget about all the wasted money and down-time.

The pessimist in me keeps asking "so how long until this fix stops working and my starting problem degrades back to it was before?". Because there were two times that Nissan got my car starting fine ... for two weeks. One was a $250 bill for a new starter (I still can't explain why that fixed it for 2 weeks) and one was a $900 bill to take apart the tranny and clean the bell housing. But, I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. In my heart, I do feel like this is the final answer. It all makes sense (one of those things that once someone points it out to you, it is obvious but you would never get on your own).

Do you guys think I should do this grounding to my '99 as "preventative maintenance"? Can't hurt, right? Also, just curious, is this only an automatic thing or are 5-speed people experiencing this problem as well?

Thanks again crazy for starting the thread and adding the 'edit' to post #1 with the solution and thanks C Max for the original idea and thanks to everyone else who helped contribute.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Congrats man! I think this thread has helped a bunch of us now... and helped us BIG TIME! Yes, this can happen to automatics and 5-speeds. I don't know how many accounts of people having starting problems after having their clutches changed I've read. I bet you this problem happens with all older maxima's. I'm sure the non-enthusiast owner would have surely traded in the vehicle.

Personally, if your '99 isn't having problems, I wouldn't do a thing. Maybe wait until it needs the stock grounding cables replaced. For sure, get standed cables instead of the home wiring--I don't think solid core wiring will last very long at all in the car, and when it comes to bolstering ground, you can't be a thicker cable like 4 ga.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

That's good news ptatohed, 3 years huh? Too bad you had to wait that long. I thought 2 months was a long time.




.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Thanks sir. Hey, you forgot some:
"If you have a crank crank, crank, pause, crank, crank pause,..."

How about "crank crank crank, pause, loud pop, crank, pause, loud banging, crank crank, pause, terrible sound of starter teeth skipping along flywheel, pause, awful foul smell, crank, pause, gray/black smoke out the exhaust, some more poping and banging, crank crank crank, start"?

LOL

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

That's what my car sounds like, with grounds installed, new spark plugs, and it DOESN't start.

I'm leaning towards the fuel pump as an issue...but if anyone has had a problem with the fuel pump...or any fuel related issues, help me out, i'm stumped.

vettefever5

hat's off to the people involved in uncovering this mystery. well, this may be a bit premature to report, but since we got a nice warm 45 day up here, i figured it would be a good time to try the grounding method, since most of the snow on/around my car melted. i stopped at auto zone and picked up some 10 gauge wire and some round terminals (which actually ended up being too small for the starter bolt, but i modified the terminal to make it fit).

i ran one ground from the 17mm starter bolt (don't know why that one, but it seems to work for other people) to the battery, and one from the transmission to the battery. i made sure to sand the surface of the starter, and the surface of the transmission where the bolts go in. i also made sure to sand the inside of the negative battery terminal, and the terminal itself just to make sure the surfaces were clean.

after all was said and done, i turned the key - fired right up. let it run for a while, took it for a short drive, turned it off for about 10 min. turned the key again - another perfect start. let it sit for about 45 min, turn the key - fires right up. that's all the testing i've done in the 90 min since i hooked it up, but those are my results so far. assume that if i don't repost stating that the car doesn't start anymore that it works fine. i took a few pictures of how mine looks, but i forgot to take a picture of the starter bolt when i had the intake off. well, here they are... for what it's worth:

i had to bend one of the sides of the battery terminal flat so that the O-terminal would fit on the square end without bending...


and this is where i mounted it on the transmission... this is the view from the side of the bumper on the drivers side....


i'm glad this problem was resolve before i sank much more than a new crank sensor into the car.... that's $7 well spent

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear another success story. But, Tavarish I don't know what to tell you. Maybe an org member in your area can take a look at your car. Try posting in the regional section for some local help. It seems like there's a lot of people in the NJ/NY area.

http://forums.maxima.org/forumdisplay.php?f=15

I don't know what else to say. I've never had a fuel pump go out either. It sounds like in your other thread that your engine cranks normaly but just won't start. Your grounds sound like there in the right spots. Good luck.

EDIT: Oops! I just got done typing this and noticed you have a thread in there already!

enforcer

Yea, i was using that.. miht have to use the hammer on it.

It's a 2L Cefiro about 150Km /17Litre this is when the Fuel light indicator lights up so it can probably do another 10Km.

enforcer

Wouldnt that stuff it up?
Whats TB?
well, its 11plate as opposed to 9plate which was installed prior to this.


Funny thing is that the car starts up now!!!!

enforcer

Update:

Since the last push-start and spraying the WD40 on the belts etc (while the engine ran) the car seems to be starting well. I started it up today after resting it yesterday. And it started up.
Im assuming the problem was with the belts (some one mentioned that it could have been too tight) Oh and the screeching noise is no more.
I still wanna open the starter and clean it up for the heck of it. Also got me a pod filter... will put em up over the weekend.

Thanks guys for your help.

Juicey

TB = Throttle Body. There's a how-to in the stickey's on cleaning it.

If you just tap the bolt on the head a couple times it will be fine. With the limited space in there as it is you're not going to be able to get a baseball swing on it if you know what I mean. But a couple good taps will free it up.

Before I was told about this from a machinest I tried WD40 on it and everything. I didn't have a pipe laying around so I couldn't do that. The hammer was my last attempt at getting the bolt off. As I said it didn't damage it at all.

Since everything is fine now you probably don't have to worry about it. Just something to remember in the future. Congrat's on fixing the problem!

One thing Maxima.org has shown me is that mechanics are not magical people with supreme knowledge. They are guys just like us with Hayes and FSM's that work on cars all day as opposed to when they have time.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

OHHHHH MY GODDDDDD!!!!!

My car starts!

Well, i took off a ground i had, it was the bolt closest to the crank sensor. This was driving the crank sensor crazy, and preventing me from starting my car. It is VERY important that you ground the tranny at one of the bolts on the bellhousing, and not the bolts that hold it to the engine, at least not to the one by the crank sensor (POS). I've replaced everything to fix this problem, and all I had to do was invest 10 bucks in cable and connectors. Now I have my car back, and I couldnt be happier! w00t!

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Great to hear! I used one of the bolts on the bottom of the tranny, I'm not sure how that could have a bad effect but oh well, hope your car keeps starting.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

Aren't the bolts that hold the tranny to the engine on the bellhousing?

I think more or less that Crazy and I used the same set of tranny bolts to ground. They attach the main tranny case to the bell housing and are found all the way around--12mm.

In any case, super news! I still can't believe my starting woes are gone!!!

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

yeah, i used a 17mm bolt, and that was causing the issue...it made my crank sensor go NUTS...but after i took it off, and left one ground on a 12mm bolt on the tranny, the car starts up without a hitch. went from an "F" to "A++"...

I also noticed, since I changed spark plugs, my car has alot more power than it used to...i feel like I got a new car.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Glad you got it tavarish.

I insured my '96 GLE yesterday morning via esurance.com and I went to the DMV at lunch to register her.......... but the whole California DMV sytem was down, statewide. I want to drive her sooo bad! Even though I can't drive it, I have started the car every morning before work and every evening when I get home. Soooo nice to hear her start over so easily each and every time.

I just realized something. Thinking my car wouldn't be running anytime soon, I loaned my friend my 16" 5-stars. Crap, now I have to drive around with 15" snowflakes until he buys new tires. :/ lol

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

You know....My crank sensor was going nuts too before I replaced anything.

-9 degrees and still fires on the first cranks. Thanks to C Max's advice on this and I'm so glad to have started this thread. Those out there that have the same problem and have fixed your car please post so I can add you to the list! http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...82&postcount=1

darkvader248

Hey Craz97 do u have a complete write on how to fix the problem ? I tried following ur instruction but it didn't quiet work out

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Page four has some pictures, you might have other problems than grounds. Does your car have any codes?
Did you see thishttp://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=156

mxzmax

im gunna try it this weekend and see what happens thanx for the write up i have the same problems

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

ptatohed, not platohed.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Aw man, the whole time I was thinking plato not ptato. oops