New Traction Bar Thread
02-16-2006, 11:57 AM
#1
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New Traction Bar Thread
I’m posting a new thread since the old one is 7+ pages long and more than slightly structurally confusing. You can view the old one here: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=417318 (Enter at your own risk 
). I’ve condensed all the information you need in a single post.
The Reason I was putting a stop to the production of these is that they require a lot of running around to get the various parts needed (not to mention downtime to order the spherical rod ends) and in the end I simply did not have the time to do a case by case basis.
So the logic behind this is to reduce the price significantly so I can do a series of 10 sets all at once and not have to run around nearly as much.
I'm not sure I made the right decision by including the shipping in the final price because it makes it seem more expensive than it really is (although it does make things simpler for everyone). The regular price was 199.00$ shipped. Shop around for FWD traction bars and you'll realize even the Honda guys are paying more than you are. The Z10-style designs with the tube crossmember go for 350+ and that is before shipping.
First 12 people to paypal me will get their sets for 169.00$ shipped no mater where you are in North America. I must mention that there will be a little downtime before I can ship them due to having to order a fairly substantial quantity of spherical rod ends.
Oil filter clearance has been talked about often and I was wrong about the location of the washers. Clearance can be increased as much as you want (within reason) by using washers for the 3 bolts between the rad support and the two hook brackets.
The extra washers need to go between the tow hook replacement brackets and the rad support. We’d simply need to add as many washers as we feel necessary to all of the 3 bolts holding said bracket. And you can install the bar on the inside of the bracket so no wheel rub at all.
If you absolutely want stock ride comfort the only thing you need to do is grind the edge of the cone-shaped bolt that might hit the bar on a lowered car.
Traction bars minimize lower control arm movement and keep pressure down on the tires. On a hard launch the soft stock rubber bushings (especially at 100k+ miles, worn or shot) allow the LCA’s to move front to rear and vice versa, which causes the majority of wheelhop. These bars link the control arms to the chassis, using the (extremely strong) existing tow hook bolt points as a mounting point.
In the best case scenario your car would have ES control arm/Motor mount bushings and traction bars. Handling and traction increase significantly.
Stiff bushings, stiff motor mounts, stiff chassis, stiff suspension -- all that helps, but what really, REALLY makes the difference is having a bar that keeps the control arm from moving forward or rearward. It can move up or down, but can no longer move front to rear. Trust me when I say that no other mod will even come close to this when it comes to wheelhop.
They also complete the geometry of the front suspension, as they mount right next to the existing control arm brace running across the underside of the car, and attach solidly to the chassis. A nice side effect of this is improved handling and a much more solid front end feel.
Installation takes less than half an hour.
They are designed for 1995-1999 5-speeds and will only fit on Automatics if the driver side bar is slightly bended.
I use paypal (Dexter1647@hotmail.com). ‘Traction bars’ must be in the subject line. Please also include your .Org username in the message, so I can keep track of who's who. Last time it got more than slightly confusing.
Any questions will be answered quicker through PM than E-mail.
If you guys are serious about this I am certainly willing to significantly lower the price so long as it's worth the time and all the running around it takes to get them done.
Here are pictures (installed) and a clear indication of the Control Arm mounting point as commonly requested:
4 Spherical Rod Ends per set. All are 1/2’’ fine thread. One for each chassis link. Load capacity is superior to 7000 lbs each:
LCA Mounting Point (Courtesy of Spaniard):
DISCLAIMER:
I just want to make sure that everyone is fully aware that I need to order the rod ends first, and it takes 1-2 weeks to get to me, then I can ship it to you. I will keep you guys updated through the process though, and provide tracking numbers if requested.
If you have already paid me and wish to get a refund due to the shipping delay, I will honor that.
I assumed the time was right for a group deal since we're in February and most people don't race or drive aggressively until springtime so the downtime wouldn't be that big of an issue.
Also: Please include your .Org username in your Paypal message, so I can keep track of who's who. Last time it got more than slightly confusing.
To keep track of everything, payments I have received so far:
). I’ve condensed all the information you need in a single post.The Reason I was putting a stop to the production of these is that they require a lot of running around to get the various parts needed (not to mention downtime to order the spherical rod ends) and in the end I simply did not have the time to do a case by case basis.
So the logic behind this is to reduce the price significantly so I can do a series of 10 sets all at once and not have to run around nearly as much.
I'm not sure I made the right decision by including the shipping in the final price because it makes it seem more expensive than it really is (although it does make things simpler for everyone). The regular price was 199.00$ shipped. Shop around for FWD traction bars and you'll realize even the Honda guys are paying more than you are. The Z10-style designs with the tube crossmember go for 350+ and that is before shipping.
First 12 people to paypal me will get their sets for 169.00$ shipped no mater where you are in North America. I must mention that there will be a little downtime before I can ship them due to having to order a fairly substantial quantity of spherical rod ends.
Oil filter clearance has been talked about often and I was wrong about the location of the washers. Clearance can be increased as much as you want (within reason) by using washers for the 3 bolts between the rad support and the two hook brackets.
The extra washers need to go between the tow hook replacement brackets and the rad support. We’d simply need to add as many washers as we feel necessary to all of the 3 bolts holding said bracket. And you can install the bar on the inside of the bracket so no wheel rub at all.
If you absolutely want stock ride comfort the only thing you need to do is grind the edge of the cone-shaped bolt that might hit the bar on a lowered car.
Traction bars minimize lower control arm movement and keep pressure down on the tires. On a hard launch the soft stock rubber bushings (especially at 100k+ miles, worn or shot) allow the LCA’s to move front to rear and vice versa, which causes the majority of wheelhop. These bars link the control arms to the chassis, using the (extremely strong) existing tow hook bolt points as a mounting point.
In the best case scenario your car would have ES control arm/Motor mount bushings and traction bars. Handling and traction increase significantly.
Stiff bushings, stiff motor mounts, stiff chassis, stiff suspension -- all that helps, but what really, REALLY makes the difference is having a bar that keeps the control arm from moving forward or rearward. It can move up or down, but can no longer move front to rear. Trust me when I say that no other mod will even come close to this when it comes to wheelhop.
They also complete the geometry of the front suspension, as they mount right next to the existing control arm brace running across the underside of the car, and attach solidly to the chassis. A nice side effect of this is improved handling and a much more solid front end feel.
Installation takes less than half an hour.
They are designed for 1995-1999 5-speeds and will only fit on Automatics if the driver side bar is slightly bended.
I use paypal (Dexter1647@hotmail.com). ‘Traction bars’ must be in the subject line. Please also include your .Org username in the message, so I can keep track of who's who. Last time it got more than slightly confusing.
Any questions will be answered quicker through PM than E-mail.
If you guys are serious about this I am certainly willing to significantly lower the price so long as it's worth the time and all the running around it takes to get them done.
Here are pictures (installed) and a clear indication of the Control Arm mounting point as commonly requested:
4 Spherical Rod Ends per set. All are 1/2’’ fine thread. One for each chassis link. Load capacity is superior to 7000 lbs each:
LCA Mounting Point (Courtesy of Spaniard):
DISCLAIMER:
I just want to make sure that everyone is fully aware that I need to order the rod ends first, and it takes 1-2 weeks to get to me, then I can ship it to you. I will keep you guys updated through the process though, and provide tracking numbers if requested.
If you have already paid me and wish to get a refund due to the shipping delay, I will honor that.
I assumed the time was right for a group deal since we're in February and most people don't race or drive aggressively until springtime so the downtime wouldn't be that big of an issue.
Also: Please include your .Org username in your Paypal message, so I can keep track of who's who. Last time it got more than slightly confusing.
To keep track of everything, payments I have received so far:
1) Mymax97
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
4) VQuick (PAID)
5) juani
6) BlackMaxGTR
7) 95maxrider
8) Drstove
9) Glenmoormax (PAID)
10) Type3max (PAID)
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
4) VQuick (PAID)
5) juani
6) BlackMaxGTR
7) 95maxrider
8) Drstove
9) Glenmoormax (PAID)
10) Type3max (PAID)
02-16-2006, 12:39 PM
#5
On a lowered car, how is ground clearance affected? My concern is potentially damaging the traction bar when going over a big bump or dip. Of course, I wouldn't go over those things at full speed but sometimes they creep up un-noticed until its too late.
02-16-2006, 12:55 PM
#7
Wow, with a price like this I may have to dip into my Paypal funds!
I forget, I think it was covered in the original thread, but these do clear a stage 2 LTB, right?
EDIT- YES!!! I have $175 in my Paypal account! If these clear, you will have your money.
I forget, I think it was covered in the original thread, but these do clear a stage 2 LTB, right?
EDIT- YES!!! I have $175 in my Paypal account! If these clear, you will have your money.
02-16-2006, 01:04 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by DR-Max
On a lowered car, how is ground clearance affected? My concern is potentially damaging the traction bar when going over a big bump or dip. Of course, I wouldn't go over those things at full speed but sometimes they creep up un-noticed until its too late.
02-16-2006, 01:05 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider
Wow, with a price like this I may have to dip into my Paypal funds!
I forget, I think it was covered in the original thread, but these do clear a stage 2 LTB, right?
EDIT- YES!!! I have $175 in my Paypal account! If these clear, you will have your money.
I forget, I think it was covered in the original thread, but these do clear a stage 2 LTB, right?
EDIT- YES!!! I have $175 in my Paypal account! If these clear, you will have your money.
Originally Posted by 007max
Could you make a version thats already bent for clearence in an AT application?
if you do i've got your money right here
if you do i've got your money right here
02-16-2006, 01:16 PM
#11
Last week, I put my car on a lift to inspect all the engine mounts because I was getting wheel hops even if I don't try to launch hard from a dead stop. I know road surface/condition can affect this, ie: wet road. I was certain that the mounts are shot. To my surprise, all of the mounts are in excellent condition. I even had another tranny mount ready to go in and the one on my car is still in excellent condition. I have checked the LCA bushings and they are in bad shape. The passenger side is literally falling apart. I want to get these traction bars as I am pretty certain that it will solve the wheel hop issue. But should I change the LCA bushings or perhaps the arms themselves first? Then install these traction bars? Will installing the traction bars first have a greater deteriorating effect on the LCA bushings?
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
Originally Posted by JClaw
Ground clearance of the bar itself is more than safe enough (8-10 inches). The only thing is that on a lowered car you should grind the end of the cone-shaped bolt protruding above the bar's link on the LCA. Very simple.
02-16-2006, 01:25 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by DR-Max
Last week, I put my car on a lift to inspect all the engine mounts because I was getting wheel hops even if I don't try to launch hard from a dead stop. I know road surface/condition can affect this, ie: wet road. I was certain that the mounts are shot. To my surprise, all of the mounts are in excellent condition. I even had another tranny mount ready to go in and the one on my car is still in excellent condition. I have checked the LCA bushings and they are in bad shape. The passenger side is literally falling apart. I want to get these traction bars as I am pretty certain that it will solve the wheel hop issue. But should I change the LCA bushings or perhaps the arms themselves first? Then install these traction bars? Will installing the traction bars first have a greater deteriorating effect on the LCA bushings?
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
You should definately change the bushings if they are shot. Yes the traction bars would get rid of most of the wheel hop as is (my bushings are worn, 122k miles, but even then I very rarely get wheelhop), but they can't do their job properly if your LCA bushings are done for.
Energy Suspension sells polyurethane replacement bushings for the LCA and most of our suspension components, and I am definately getting them this spring (Contact Cattman about it). Installing LCA bushings is a royal pain in the @ss though, but it definately needs to be done on our 10 year old cars.
02-16-2006, 01:26 PM
#15
Originally Posted by JClaw
They do clear every aftermarket strut or sway bar available for the maxima.
And as far as I know we don't have any choices for front sway bars. Has anybody put these on a car with Matt's stage 2 LTB yet?
02-16-2006, 01:28 PM
#16
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lol I know. What I meant is that they interfere with no off-the shelf aftermarket parts.
I believe Spaniard has the lower tie bar on his car, you can see part of it in the last picture showing the LCA mounting point.
I believe Spaniard has the lower tie bar on his car, you can see part of it in the last picture showing the LCA mounting point.
02-16-2006, 01:36 PM
#19
Thanks for the advice....I'm in on this! Let me know when you need the $$$.
1) Mymax97
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
1) Mymax97
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
Originally Posted by DR-Max
Last week, I put my car on a lift to inspect all the engine mounts because I was getting wheel hops even if I don't try to launch hard from a dead stop. I know road surface/condition can affect this, ie: wet road. I was certain that the mounts are shot. To my surprise, all of the mounts are in excellent condition. I even had another tranny mount ready to go in and the one on my car is still in excellent condition. I have checked the LCA bushings and they are in bad shape. The passenger side is literally falling apart. I want to get these traction bars as I am pretty certain that it will solve the wheel hop issue. But should I change the LCA bushings or perhaps the arms themselves first? Then install these traction bars? Will installing the traction bars first have a greater deteriorating effect on the LCA bushings?
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
Also, someone might have asked this before but is there a way you can provide a write-up? Or perhaps those who are going to install this or have recently installed them in their maxima, perhaps you guys can provide a write-up to give us a visual aid on the installation.
Thanks.
02-16-2006, 03:32 PM
#20
OK, JClaw, I have heard mostly good things about these and all the issues seem to have been address, so I'm going to dip further in debt to get this good price. Thanks for making another batch...and thanks for the design and testing in the first place. Can't wait to see how these improve wheelhop and tighten up the front end. If I'm dropped 1.6" in front and grind the cone shaped bolt you speak of, will I have any problems with the traction bars hitting anything, even at full compression?
BTW I have ES bushings all around and a Stage II LTB.
1) Mymax97
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
4) VQuick
BTW I have ES bushings all around and a Stage II LTB.
1) Mymax97
2) NCSU_MAX
3) Dr-Max
4) VQuick
02-16-2006, 03:44 PM
#22
Originally Posted by JClaw
Unfortunately it is somewhat car specific and I don't have an automatic test car available. Grey99max has an automatic in his car and all he needed was a cheap 10$ tube bender to make it fit.
02-16-2006, 03:49 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by VQuick
OK, JClaw, I have heard mostly good things about these and all the issues seem to have been address, so I'm going to dip further in debt to get this good price. Thanks for making another batch...and thanks for the design and testing in the first place. Can't wait to see how these improve wheelhop and tighten up the front end. If I'm dropped 1.6" in front and grind the cone shaped bolt you speak of, will I have any problems with the traction bars hitting anything, even at full compression?
Originally Posted by VQuick
BTW I have ES bushings all around and a Stage II LTB.
02-16-2006, 03:57 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by 007max
hmmm... i just noticed that you're in Montreal. Would you break me a deal on a set if i drive up there on a weekend with my A/T maxima for you to figure out the fittment issues? I'm not lowered btw
I'm probably making this sound a whole lot more complicated than it is. Basically the A/T is sizeably bigger than the 5-speed, and the driver side bar hits the trans before you can correctly place it. So a mild 15-20 degree angle in the bar is all that is needed to make it fit.
02-16-2006, 05:51 PM
#26
Originally Posted by 95maxrider
Strut or sway bar? FSTB, as you well know, is above the engine, so of course it would clear it And as far as I know we don't have any choices for front sway bars. Has anybody put these on a car with Matt's stage 2 LTB yet?
And as far as I know we don't have any choices for front sway bars. Has anybody put these on a car with Matt's stage 2 LTB yet?I would like to clear up 2 issues for auto tranny installs.
First, one may bend them with a $10.00 pipe bender but to do it right take your car to any shop with a regular press for springs, brakes, etc and have them bend it. One can do this with a cheap bender but you have much more control with a press. It took 5 minutes.
Second,
You may have to also bend the passenger side bar depending if you are SC, turboed, remote oil filter spin on etc. It's all easy to do but be forewarned.
02-16-2006, 07:06 PM
#28
Originally Posted by JClaw
Update: Added and edited into the original post.
EDIT: Good news. I will be able to get professionally machined tubes with the thread machined into the tubes themselves, instead of the traditional tube w/ welded nuts. It will cost me more but I will still honor the 169$ shipped price as promised. The minimum quantity is 24 at a time, so I have extended the Group Deal from 10 to 12 people.
EDIT: Good news. I will be able to get professionally machined tubes with the thread machined into the tubes themselves, instead of the traditional tube w/ welded nuts. It will cost me more but I will still honor the 169$ shipped price as promised. The minimum quantity is 24 at a time, so I have extended the Group Deal from 10 to 12 people.
02-16-2006, 08:29 PM
#31
Just been thinking. I know that the front suspension on our Maximas have a fixed caster. If the LCA bushings are pretty much shot, this could affect the caster in a way because of the front and back movement, as foremerly mentioned. I can see why adding the traction bar would not only give you a firmer front end feel but could restore the suspension geometry back to where it should. It would be very interesting to see if anyone discovers that their LCA's are bent and needed to be replaced because now, the connecting point of the traction bar would either line up with the attachment point on the LCA or not. Just a thought.
02-16-2006, 08:40 PM
#32
Originally Posted by JClaw
Unfortunately it is somewhat car specific and I don't have an automatic test car available. Grey99max has an automatic in his car and all he needed was a cheap 10$ tube bender to make it fit.
These Jbars are incredible - a break-through idea, well-executed, easy to install, and priced right. If you don't have them, you need them. You drive better, corner better, and launch MUCH better. My '99 Max had 43K miles (one-owner) when I started spraying, and launching with a 50-shot literally shook the car with wheel-hop. Launching with a 100-shot pulled the BFG DRs into the body metal on both sides. Scary schizzz... With the Jbars, the car launches and drives perfectly.
13.61 ET,101.9 MPH - thanks to the Jbars. And now I have an Edge TC installed -heh.
02-17-2006, 07:07 AM
#36
Originally Posted by BlackMaxGTR
What are the gains you would get using these on the track with say a stock car with the same tires used with and without it?
No disrespect but if you read the previous posts you would see they radically reduce wheel hop!
Now if you know anything about drag racing, the name of the game (presupposing your car is ready to race) is driver reaction time and getting power to the ground. Reducing wheel hop means getting more power to the ground. In a perfect world the answer is yes but the only perfect person I know is myself
So with all these variables how can you ask this question???
02-17-2006, 07:42 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by VQuick
My understanding is that he needs payment now so he can buy the parts.
02-17-2006, 10:21 AM
#38
First of all I wasnt asking a yes or no question 
, and second, when i said the same tires I was saying that assuming u guys would get the idea that i meant "all variables the same" i didnt want to go into detail saying same suspension, car weight, horsepower, torque, power weight ratio, launching rpm, having track bite, weather conditions, reaction time. i do know how to race i go to the track myself. i agree that they get the power to the ground but if you had a car that spins off the line without these then you put them on it would get to the line a lot sooner but what i want to know is how much sooner if anyone knows. everyone says they can tell a huge difference on how much they helped, well then someone put up some times before and after.
, and second, when i said the same tires I was saying that assuming u guys would get the idea that i meant "all variables the same" i didnt want to go into detail saying same suspension, car weight, horsepower, torque, power weight ratio, launching rpm, having track bite, weather conditions, reaction time. i do know how to race i go to the track myself. i agree that they get the power to the ground but if you had a car that spins off the line without these then you put them on it would get to the line a lot sooner but what i want to know is how much sooner if anyone knows. everyone says they can tell a huge difference on how much they helped, well then someone put up some times before and after.
02-17-2006, 10:29 AM
#39
You don't have to be drag racing to appreciate the elimination of wheel hops. I am not into drag racing nor in the habit of jumping ahead of everyone everytime I take off from a light. It is just annoying to have wheel hops especially when the only wheel that is actually spinning is the driver-side one since our tranny's aren't VLSD in stock form. Wheel hops just make the tire hard to hook up. Traction arms improve this and if you have VLSD, it is going to improve it even more.
I love my traction bars and with ES bushings all around. Every once in a while they do need a little adjustment, but it is by far worth it.