maximadan96

i dont know what springs to get i want the car lower but i want a smooth ride im getting koni but i need help on what springs to get. H&R, eibach, Intrax, sprint or Ground control what 1 should i get out of the 5??????

metallic97gxe

iTrader: (3)

You are asking a very serious wide open question being that everyone will have there opinion. What are you looking for and also how is your money plenty or none? I have Progress Technology - 1.5" for $179.00 from lightningmotorsports.com with free S&H with my stock struts and I like how they ride.

maximadan96

im looking to lower car to handle realy good when turning at high speeds im getting all other suspension stuff after i get the springs and struts and alsow keep smooth ride i want
i have about $800.00 to blow on struts/springs please help me on what springs/struts to buy thanks.

metallic97gxe

iTrader: (3)

I'm scared to say but groundcontrols are really low they make only the whole coilover kit so you won't need stuts and they are about $1,200.00. They drop from 0"-4" by adjustments. Do you want that low = bad ride. What size rims and tires do yoy have? I have heard good about Eibachs but get the sportlines,and H&R's are good to. I've heard Intrax sag and sag so they get weak over time and won't hold up. If you don't want an ultra lowrider get either H&R or Eibach sportlines. If you like super low get the Grouncontrols.

deathwish

Ground Control makes just the coilover, and it's $400...

Anyway, if you want a great ride, super low height, and great performance, well, that's just not going to happen. You're going to have to decide between comfort and performance. Do a search, suspension has come up a lot lately, but here's briefly the options...

Shocks
- Koni Sports, require mods to fit, performance oriented, 1 way adjustable
- Tokico HP, everyone says they go soft fast
- KYB GR2, stock replacement, not performance oriented, won't handle lowering springs
- stock, won't handle lowering springs

Springs
- Eibachs, stiff, performance orented
- H&R, decent performance, good ride
- Suspension Techniques, no idea...
- Intrax, no idea...
- Sprint, no idea...

Coilovers
- Ground Control, uses eibach springs, still need shocks
- Cattman, complete kit with KYB AGX dual adjustable shocks, Carrera springs, and adjustable camber plates, race oriented

If you wanna go low, coilovers will do it. If you want a good ride, I'd probably try Koni's with H&R's. If you want all out performance, cattman coilovers.

Slickismax

iTrader: (4)

the GC coil-overs don't have that bad of a ride, in fact, I've heard from different people taht the GC's ride better then the Cattman's. If you want it to feel similar to stock, and still get good performance, then get H&R's or Eibach's. Intrax will sag after time, and they aren't progressive, so they will feel bouncier. I haven't ridden in a car with the other springs that I haven't mentioned, so I can't really say. One of my friends is going to get Suspension Techniques, so I'll be able to see how well they do.

Shingles

Ground control is spring only, you have to provide the struts. You really can't compare the GC ride to the cattman ride unless you use the GC on some KYB agx. the struts have just as much to do with ride as springs.

-Shing

demian

I've had both Progress springs and Eibach springs. Progress springs are horrible. They sagged really quickly and absolutely ruined my rear shocks. Eibach's are more performance oriented, thus they are more stiff. But they are arguably the best quality spring. I think they lower the most as well. Friends with H&R like the ride. Friends that tried Intrax have changed to Eibachs or H&R.

Slickismax

iTrader: (4)

I see what you mean Shing, but thats like saying you can't compare the ride of GC's to the ride of H&R's unless you use the same strut. Of course the strut contributes to ride quality, but at the same time, the Cattman's are limited to the KYB AGX and with the GC's you can choose whatever strut you want. Are you also saying that you can't compare H&R, Eibach, Intrax, Suspension Technique, etc. to Cattman as far as ride quality unless they use the KYB AGX?

[Edited by Slickismax on 11-01-2000 at 05:02 AM]

BrianV

iTrader: (9)

Have Eibachs, getting ST's. Eibachs seem harsh when you load the car full of passengers and on rough terrain. I wanted a softer spring and was thinking about the H&R's, but Eibach 1.25" drop isn't quite enough for me, so I went with the ST. The Eibachs also REALLY sagged in the back?

chris j vurnis

Hello:

O.K. Everybody has their opinion on ride quality and what springs to buy...

Personally, I like the GC coilovers... just because they are coilovers doesn't necessarily mean you have to slam the car really low... You can set the height any way you like and get springs of whatever stiffness you like...

Here is what really affects your ride quality in an adverse way... Call me self-righteous if you like... but make your own choices... just consider the basic physics of our cars...


1. Stillen Camber plates or any type of "top-mount" plate:
With these plates, you are removing the factory bushings between the strut top and the chassis strut mount... so all your road impacts are translated with maximum magnitude to the body of the car... because it is metal to metal contact... These plates are one of the most detrimental modifications for ride quality....

These plates do not increased performance of the car regardless of advertisements of "eliminated bushing flex"... The impulse energy from a road impact is far higher than any energy from normal cornering... The OEM front strut bushings work just fine for normal road and track conditions... To control camber, it is better to get "bottom-mount" camber bolts... they do the same job and cost about 1/10th the money and allow a much better ride quality and less rattles... Get them from Ground Control...

Speaking of bushings, if you get coilovers, you should upgrade the rear strut mount bushings to a thick polyurethane... or add a polyurethane in addition to the stock rubber mount... From the factory, the rear bushings aren't as robust as the front bushings...



2. High unsprung weight... Let's face it... Unsprung weight is the enemy to handling and a definite enemy to ride quality... The GC coilovers have an advantage here because the assembly is much lighter than an OEM style spring/strut assembly (or Eibach Prokit, H&R, etc..)

3. Heavy wheels: Once again, excess unsprung weight of heavy wheels will further reduce ride quality... Stillen markets the MOMO ARROW wheel which weighs 29LBs... one of the absolute worst wheels you can put on your car for ride quality... I have SSR Integrals... they weight 17LBs. I noticed a huge difference in the ride quality when I switched to these wheels... My Tokiko struts (which I had at the time and aren't that good anyway) had a much easier time controlling the lighter wheels...

4. TOKIKO struts: Poor characteristics for compression, rebound, spring damping... They can't keep the tires on the ground with moderate undulations in road surface... A tire bouncing on the road is not comfortable... A firmer strut can be more comfortable because the contact with the road is secure...

5. Tire choice: I used to have Yokahama A520 and I know a guy with the Yokahama AVS Sports... Maybe good grip but sidewall construction leads to a harsh ride... especially with the steel reinforced sidewalls... Bridgestone Potenzas perform a lot better and ride much better too... This is why you can see a lot of high end cars coming from the factory with Bridgestone Potenza tires... the Potenza tires are also a little bit lighter than the Yokahama tires... less unsprung weight...

6. Supporting the car with struts instead of springs:
If you slam the car way low, you compress the internals of the strut quite a bit in static ride height... so naturally the ride will get very firm to harsh... Also, if you have weak springs, the car rolls more in the turns compressing the struts more.... the more your strut internals are compressed, the higher the potential to upset the balance due to bumps in a turn... Actually, the Eibach pro-kit and perhaps H&R are 25% softer than the OEM springs (150LB/IN vs. OEM 200LB/IN linear) in the first half or more of their travel... then they tighten abruptly... so the predictability is not as good as a linear spring... by the time they tighten, the car is rolled over too much...

7. Low profile tires with high negative camber:
No surprise here... with a reasonably taut suspension, you don't need huge camber angles... -.5 degrees is plenty for coilovers (350-400LB/IN springs) and 17" wheels. For a softer suspension and maybe 16" wheels, -1 degree is plenty for aggressive street driving... If you are pushing -2 degrees, you start to adversely affect straight line adhesion (braking, acceleration, etc..)


This is all from my experience... I made all the above "wrong" choices and for a while had all the "wrong" choices set up at the same time... all of which was sold to me by Stillen... I was inexperienced back then... I know a lot better know... and financially, it cost me some big bucks too...

My setup now has much better ride quality and far better handling too... easily gaining 2-3 seconds on autocrossing with the new setup...
Its not just my own impression... my friends noticed huge differences too in my car's ride...

GC coilovers with KONI struts.../ 375LB/IN front springs and 350LB inch rear springs / -.4 front camber
235/45/17 Potenza S-O2PP tires, SSR Integral 17X8 wheels, Stillen rear stabilizer bar, Stillen strut tower braces, energy suspension front stabilizer bar bushings,

I am not saying you should go as aggressive or expensive as my setup... If you can only do just a portion of what I suggest, you'll reap the biggest cost effective benefits of ride quality by sticking with bottom mount camber kits and lighter wheels...

2ndMAX

And Moses led his people to the promise land. ---- Chris thanks for the new bible on suspension set up for the Max. Okay just kidding, but I really wanna thank you I have been considering changing my suspension, and I know I want a coil-over system but I was very curious about choice of springs (250-400LB/IN springs) and choice of shock/strut. Look we all want an agressive handling car that can retain nice ride qualities. I like your idea and if you're in NY area I'd love to set up a test ride. I would like some real world feedback.

PS: Is it true about new KYB AGX that should be ready for spring??? I'd like to know more if anyone can help.

seven

iTrader: (1)

i got an e-mail directly from KYB...AGX's will be ready by summer 2001.

ny96max

ok, BOTTOM LINE!!

Stiff *** ride, 1.5" drop = Eibach's
Close to stock ride, 1.5" drop = H@R's/Suspension Tech.
SloppY, yet good looking drop, 2" drop = Intrax
Harsh at times, but adjustable = Ground control

To get the best performance out of any of these springs, go with either
1) tokico's (blue) - i have them with H@R with 6k and broke in nicely and still givbe me very good performance
2) Koni/KYB - very stiff strut, excellent for performance
3) STOCK DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT!!! NOT AN OPTION >:O

sx7r

iTrader: (15)

Didn't know Cattman's came with carrera springs....interesting

chris j vurnis

There is a lot of disagreement on this post about ride quality with many people defending the Tokiko and many people saying that KONI or KYB are better... What determines ride quality is very subjective for each individual...

For those of you satisfied with Tokiko, are you using Stillen camber plates? The Stillen camber plates was the last thing I put on my car on my previous suspension setup... that is where I really started suffering in ride quality and many friends of mine had comments like:

"What happened to your car... it was decent last week and now it rides much rougher and the struts movements make more noise" ... etc...

That is when I became more sensitive to noise and ride and rattles... etc... That is why I stressed most negatively on my last posting about top-mount camber plates... No matter how good or bad everything is on the suspension, the stock upper mount bushings are the last-line of defense to absorb the vibrations from getting into the body of the car...

So once again:

If you got Tokiko and like them, are you using camber plates with them?

Thanks a lot...

Bernie Lomax

Okay, what about this: --->


453+3447 Shock KYB - GR-2 Gas Shock, Left/Right Rear, All Mdls.
$57.45 $114.90

492+0922 Strut KYB - GR-2 Gas Strut, Left Front, All Mdls.
$75.44 $75.44

492+0921 Strut KYB - GR-2 Gas Strut, Right Front, All Mdls.
$75.44 $75.44

591+1385 Spring-Perf SUSPENSION TECH - Sport Lowering Springs - Front Lowering 1.30" Rear Lowering 1.30"
$165.95 $165.95


Are the GR-2's any good or should I just wait for the summer?

Shingles

GR2s are OEM replacements... NOT performance struts. IF you can wait, do so. I am trying to wait.

Now ride is VERY subjective as is sound. I find that caddy like ride that the tokico provides me is a poor ride. I prefer firm tight suspensions.

Regarding this statement by Slickismax:
"I see what you mean Shing, but thats like saying you can't compare the ride of GC's to the ride of H&R's unless you use the same strut. "

That's EXACTLY what I am saying. Why? B/C the struts are just as important as the springs. Putting Konis on H&Rs will provid a completely different ride than Tokicos and H&R. If you are going to compare two different springs on two different cars with two different struts, *apples to oranges*, you simply CAN'T do that. Sure you *may* get an idea of what one's like but you can not make a difinitive judgement on it.

-Shing