Adjustable Tokiko / KYB Struts
11-01-2000, 12:10 AM
#2
As of right now, neither KYB nor Tokiko offers adjustable struts for the Maxima. Koni does, but the fronts are only inserts - you have to cut the stockers and put the Konis inside. Rumor has it that KYB will offer AGXs for the Maxima sometime this summer, if you can wait till then.
11-01-2000, 06:08 PM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 203
I'm not sure what you definition of difficult is, but if I had a choice between cutting my stock shock bodies and installing inserts (Koni's) or simply swapping out for direct replacements (Tokico's), then I would choose simple swap. However, the case can be made that the Koni's are better. They are 3-way adjustable. Tokico's are not adjustable. But Tokico's have a liftime warranty. Koni's do not have a lifetime warranty. It's a trade off. I wasn't advocating either shock.
11-02-2000, 06:27 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,014
I'm not crazy about cutting the stock struts, I'd suggest trying to find a set at a junkyard or something. That way when you get rid of the car if you want to go back to stock you don't have to spend any money on new front struts.
But I'd say just go buy some coilovers
The AGX's are dual externally adjustable, eat that Koni!
11-02-2000, 06:29 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 536
This topic again......
This subject is killing me. I'm dying to know what the definitive answer is because I want to do it, but no one seems to agree.
So far I see Tokicos are guaranteed, but guaranteed pieces of crap. Konis are great, but require modifications. What are the other options? Anything in between?
I want a ride equal to or better than stock SE trim, and lowered about 1.5". And I'm not paying $1500 for Cattmans.
H&R seems to be a popular spring, what can I mate those with?
THANKS!!
So far I see Tokicos are guaranteed, but guaranteed pieces of crap. Konis are great, but require modifications. What are the other options? Anything in between?
I want a ride equal to or better than stock SE trim, and lowered about 1.5". And I'm not paying $1500 for Cattmans.
H&R seems to be a popular spring, what can I mate those with?
THANKS!!
11-02-2000, 12:28 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 536
KYB / EIBACH from Nopi online
453+3447 Shock KYB - GR-2 Gas Shock, Left/Right Rear, All Mdls.
$57.45 $114.90
492+0922 Strut KYB - GR-2 Gas Strut, Left Front, All Mdls.
$75.44 $75.44
492+0921 Strut KYB - GR-2 Gas Strut, Right Front, All Mdls.
$75.44 $75.44
591+0639 Spring-Perf EIBACH - Pro-Kit Lowering Springs - Front Lowering 1.5" Rear Lowering 1.3"
$259.08 $259.08
Subtotal: $524.86
From http://www.nopi.com
11-02-2000, 01:30 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bernie, I have H&Rs and Konis, and I loooove the combination.
Compared to H&Rs and Tokicos, the ride is definitely firmer but by no means harsh. I'd equate the ride with H&Rs/Konis to that of a stock BMW 3-series, something like that. Firm but not rough or harsh. Rebounding control is phenomenal with Konis. No rebound bounce at ALL, even over the biggest dips and speedbumps. It's fantastic. Overall, the ride is better than stock or H&R/Tokicos because there's no boat-like wallowing, where the car is all over the place from a minor bump. It's now a single firm, thump over a bump, and the car tracks/rides straight through and stops moving around immediately.
Konis ARE warrantied for life. The only downside is that, from what I've hear, you have to buy new ones to replace the bad ones, ship your bad ones back to Koni, and wait for them to confirm they're bad and refund you the money. Kinda sucks, but they are warrantied for life.
Tokicos are garbage. Stay with stock if anything, or go with KYB...at least KYBs are a little cheaper. Tokicos were garbage.
I drove my car for a week with just front Konis and rear Tokicos...the car drove really, really well...almost as good as with the rear Konis on in addition. I'd consider just doing front Konis and rear KYBs or something along those lines, also. Pretty decent combination.
Compared to H&Rs and Tokicos, the ride is definitely firmer but by no means harsh. I'd equate the ride with H&Rs/Konis to that of a stock BMW 3-series, something like that. Firm but not rough or harsh. Rebounding control is phenomenal with Konis. No rebound bounce at ALL, even over the biggest dips and speedbumps. It's fantastic. Overall, the ride is better than stock or H&R/Tokicos because there's no boat-like wallowing, where the car is all over the place from a minor bump. It's now a single firm, thump over a bump, and the car tracks/rides straight through and stops moving around immediately.
Konis ARE warrantied for life. The only downside is that, from what I've hear, you have to buy new ones to replace the bad ones, ship your bad ones back to Koni, and wait for them to confirm they're bad and refund you the money. Kinda sucks, but they are warrantied for life.
Tokicos are garbage. Stay with stock if anything, or go with KYB...at least KYBs are a little cheaper. Tokicos were garbage.
I drove my car for a week with just front Konis and rear Tokicos...the car drove really, really well...almost as good as with the rear Konis on in addition. I'd consider just doing front Konis and rear KYBs or something along those lines, also. Pretty decent combination.
11-02-2000, 05:37 PM
#9
If you are capable enough to remove>>>
the front strut assembly from the car, then the cutting drilling is no big deal. Just adjusting the fronts makes a night/day difference on how the car tracks over bumps... If the cost doesn't scare you, go with the Konis, you won't be disappointed.
Kev (or anyone else with them), what setting are you using for the front and backs?
I still have to reset the rears....
Kev (or anyone else with them), what setting are you using for the front and backs?
I still have to reset the rears....
11-02-2000, 06:58 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 203
Originally posted by Murphy_TX_Mike
"But Tokico's have a liftime warranty. Koni's do not have a lifetime warranty."
From the koni-na.com website
"BUILT FOR A LIFETIME
Last but not least, KONl's are built to last a lifetime. Once you have bought a set of KONl's for your car, they usually will outlive it. KONI street shocks carry a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser for as long as you own the vehicle."
I also called the warranty department this morning, and they confirmed, that they do carry a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser.
There is no tradeoff. It amazes me how an installation becomes difficult when all you have to do is spend 10 or so minutes per side drilling a hole and using a hacksaw to cut the tops off the old strut. It is not rocket science, and the difference between Tokico and Koni is night and day.
If you were to actually do the swap, then you could say with certainty that it is a no brainer. The concept of inserts is nothing new.
I pitty the people that take them to a shop and pay the full price to have them installed "because it is so hard and requires cutting" Those people are getting screwed.
Make the switch, I have owned both, and nothing compares. Too soft? adjust it firmer, too tight, adjust it looser.
The only disappointment I have is that the rear is not externally adjustable. Now it takes me 45 minutes to do them. I have only adjusted them once after the initial install.
The front is externally adjustable.
You may not be advocating either shock, but I am.
I have had tokico "blue" for my maxima and they are junk. They can not control the rebound of the wheel with performace springs. They leave a lot to be desired in the area of "becoming soft quickly". They are not a real "performance" strut. They are barely an upgrade over factory.
I have had tokico adjustables on a prelude, and they are a big improvement. But I cant compare apples to apples on that one, because I never had tokico non adjustable on that one.
But I do have Konis on the max now, used to have tokicos, and I can say there is NO comparison.
"But Tokico's have a liftime warranty. Koni's do not have a lifetime warranty."
From the koni-na.com website
"BUILT FOR A LIFETIME
Last but not least, KONl's are built to last a lifetime. Once you have bought a set of KONl's for your car, they usually will outlive it. KONI street shocks carry a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser for as long as you own the vehicle."
I also called the warranty department this morning, and they confirmed, that they do carry a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser.
There is no tradeoff. It amazes me how an installation becomes difficult when all you have to do is spend 10 or so minutes per side drilling a hole and using a hacksaw to cut the tops off the old strut. It is not rocket science, and the difference between Tokico and Koni is night and day.
If you were to actually do the swap, then you could say with certainty that it is a no brainer. The concept of inserts is nothing new.
I pitty the people that take them to a shop and pay the full price to have them installed "because it is so hard and requires cutting" Those people are getting screwed.
Make the switch, I have owned both, and nothing compares. Too soft? adjust it firmer, too tight, adjust it looser.
The only disappointment I have is that the rear is not externally adjustable. Now it takes me 45 minutes to do them. I have only adjusted them once after the initial install.
The front is externally adjustable.
You may not be advocating either shock, but I am.
I have had tokico "blue" for my maxima and they are junk. They can not control the rebound of the wheel with performace springs. They leave a lot to be desired in the area of "becoming soft quickly". They are not a real "performance" strut. They are barely an upgrade over factory.
I have had tokico adjustables on a prelude, and they are a big improvement. But I cant compare apples to apples on that one, because I never had tokico non adjustable on that one.
But I do have Konis on the max now, used to have tokicos, and I can say there is NO comparison.
11-02-2000, 09:39 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
kyb / tokiko / koni struts
thanks for all the responses folks. from what i've read it appears that i can summarize as follows:
1. the tokikos just plain suck.
2. the kyb's are somewhat better.
3. the adjustable koni's are best, offer enhanced "performance" but are a pain in the *** because of the modifications required to the stock strut assemblies.
4. any decent suspension shop should be able to handle the mods required to install the koni inserts.
i have the stock struts on the vehicle now with intrax springs. the object here is to eliminate the up and down and side to side "boat" action of the suspension. the bouncing over dips and small bumps is extremely irritating not to mention unsafe at high speeds.
it seems that since the rebound on the koni's is adjustable, they alone will give me the performance and "feel" i'm looking for. are the rear struts inserts as well, or are they just bolt-on units?
for those who have the koni's already installed, what settings are you running, front and rear? thanks again for the assistance.
maxnout98
1. the tokikos just plain suck.
2. the kyb's are somewhat better.
3. the adjustable koni's are best, offer enhanced "performance" but are a pain in the *** because of the modifications required to the stock strut assemblies.
4. any decent suspension shop should be able to handle the mods required to install the koni inserts.
i have the stock struts on the vehicle now with intrax springs. the object here is to eliminate the up and down and side to side "boat" action of the suspension. the bouncing over dips and small bumps is extremely irritating not to mention unsafe at high speeds.
it seems that since the rebound on the koni's is adjustable, they alone will give me the performance and "feel" i'm looking for. are the rear struts inserts as well, or are they just bolt-on units?
for those who have the koni's already installed, what settings are you running, front and rear? thanks again for the assistance.
maxnout98
11-02-2000, 10:23 PM
#12
No modification on rear is needed>>
Straight replacement. However, the adjustment has to be done when shocks are out of the car. I have it at full soft but i heard it probably should be set to about 75%.... That's about how i have the front adjusted at this time (fronts can be adjusted from engine compartment)... Never turn it all the way firm... it supposedly increases some of the compression rate too and makes the car really stiff... or so i've read.
11-03-2000, 04:46 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
I understand where's he's coming from. So many people here talking out of there *** about how hard the Koni install is, when they have no clue what the real deal is. People are being scared away from a fine product because of that crap. Irritates me, too.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by demian
[QUOTE]Originally posted by demian
Hey Murphy, are you a Koni salesman? It's not really that big of a deal, but it looks like you're having a hernia over it. I wasn't trying to get into an argument with you or anything, cuz people should judge for themselves whether they like a product or not.
11-03-2000, 04:48 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: If you are capable enough to remove>>>
I believe I have the fronts set to 3.5 half-turns and the rears to 3 half-turns (out of 5 max). I messed with the settings for the first two weeks, but since then I haven't touched them. Seems to be a the best handling/comfortable combination for me. Anything stiffer on the front caused poor traction over bumpy pavement, and felt harsh.
Originally posted by Chunger
the front strut assembly from the car, then the cutting drilling is no big deal. Just adjusting the fronts makes a night/day difference on how the car tracks over bumps... If the cost doesn't scare you, go with the Konis, you won't be disappointed.
Kev (or anyone else with them), what setting are you using for the front and backs?
I still have to reset the rears....
the front strut assembly from the car, then the cutting drilling is no big deal. Just adjusting the fronts makes a night/day difference on how the car tracks over bumps... If the cost doesn't scare you, go with the Konis, you won't be disappointed.
Kev (or anyone else with them), what setting are you using for the front and backs?
I still have to reset the rears....
11-03-2000, 08:54 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 203
"No I am not a Koni salesman, but I do have a problem when somebody does not recommend something because "they hear" that they are hard to install when they do not know, because they have never done it."
Hey Mike. I've called around asking mechanics if they would do the Koni job, and several of them said that they couldn't guarantee a successful install. So, yes, I "heard" the mechanics correctly when they said no guarantees. If you don't like "hearing" things (except your own infallible opinion), then why are you even reading/posting in this forum?
Hey Mike. I've called around asking mechanics if they would do the Koni job, and several of them said that they couldn't guarantee a successful install. So, yes, I "heard" the mechanics correctly when they said no guarantees. If you don't like "hearing" things (except your own infallible opinion), then why are you even reading/posting in this forum?
11-04-2000, 02:18 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 203
Damian,
It has nothing to do with "hearing things". It has to do with the fact that you comment or give your opinion on something that you have no actual experience with.
First it was "I hear they are hard to install" now it is no gaurantees. I think a set of clapped out tokicos is best for you.
If you decide to make a phone call to another mechanic, ask them if they have ever installed strut inserts. Better yet, call a shop that specializes in watercooled VWs or German imports. For years, they never made a complete strut for A1 GTIs. I did my first insert in 1984 on my 1983 GTI.
Damian, I am giving my opinion/recommendation based upon experience and actually having done the install and owning/using the product.
You dont have the product, and you can only give your opinion/recommendation on it based upon what you hear.
Damian,
Send me your old struts and I will cut the top off.
Good luck everybody. Pick your parts wisely, and do it based upon what you hear from people that do not use or have the parts that they are talking about.
My offer still stands, anybody in N. Texas that needs them installed, give me a shout.
Mike [/I][/QUOTE]
Mike,
Thanks for your reply. Originally I didn't think it was cool for you to tell people that Koni's were easy to install. Someone could have taken your advice and gotten stuck with jacked up front shock bodies, and then have to buy new stock shocks just to finish the Koni install. But I'm sure if everyone out there finds a reputable shop or does some research, they can get the job done correctly.
I didn't want to get into an argument with you at all. Peace out.
Demian
It has nothing to do with "hearing things". It has to do with the fact that you comment or give your opinion on something that you have no actual experience with.
First it was "I hear they are hard to install" now it is no gaurantees. I think a set of clapped out tokicos is best for you.
If you decide to make a phone call to another mechanic, ask them if they have ever installed strut inserts. Better yet, call a shop that specializes in watercooled VWs or German imports. For years, they never made a complete strut for A1 GTIs. I did my first insert in 1984 on my 1983 GTI.
Damian, I am giving my opinion/recommendation based upon experience and actually having done the install and owning/using the product.
You dont have the product, and you can only give your opinion/recommendation on it based upon what you hear.
Damian,
Send me your old struts and I will cut the top off.
Good luck everybody. Pick your parts wisely, and do it based upon what you hear from people that do not use or have the parts that they are talking about.
My offer still stands, anybody in N. Texas that needs them installed, give me a shout.
Mike [/I][/QUOTE]
Mike,
Thanks for your reply. Originally I didn't think it was cool for you to tell people that Koni's were easy to install. Someone could have taken your advice and gotten stuck with jacked up front shock bodies, and then have to buy new stock shocks just to finish the Koni install. But I'm sure if everyone out there finds a reputable shop or does some research, they can get the job done correctly.
I didn't want to get into an argument with you at all. Peace out.
Demian
11-11-2000, 07:47 AM
#18
No Koni AGX's coming for Maxima
Just talked to both sales and R&D at KYB (HQ near my work)
As of right now there are no plans to develop an adjustable AGX strut for the Maxima's
Don't know how Cattman's doing his but he must be modding struts made for another application.
Guess I'm going Koni...
As of right now there are no plans to develop an adjustable AGX strut for the Maxima's
Don't know how Cattman's doing his but he must be modding struts made for another application.
Guess I'm going Koni...
11-11-2000, 10:13 AM
#19
this is what i got from KYB...
We will have adjustable product available by Summer 2001.
Regards,
Chuck Gonwa
KYB America LLC
Product Manager
Phone: (630) 620-5555
Fax: (630) 620-8133
E-Mail : chuck@kyb.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hsu [mailto:quicksix@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:12 PM
To: shock@kyb.com
Subject: kyb agx shocks
do you plan to make the KYB AGX adjustable shocks for a 1999 Nissan Maxima?
and if so, when will they be out?
thank you
Regards,
Chuck Gonwa
KYB America LLC
Product Manager
Phone: (630) 620-5555
Fax: (630) 620-8133
E-Mail : chuck@kyb.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hsu [mailto:quicksix@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:12 PM
To: shock@kyb.com
Subject: kyb agx shocks
do you plan to make the KYB AGX adjustable shocks for a 1999 Nissan Maxima?
and if so, when will they be out?
thank you
11-11-2000, 02:12 PM
#21
no problem...
believe me, its driving me crazy waiting for these struts and shocks. i have eibachs in the closet...just a few more months!
there's nothing wrong with Koni's except the rears have to be removed to be adjusted, if i'm going to pay 5 bills for a shock, i better be able to adjust them anytime i want.
there's nothing wrong with Koni's except the rears have to be removed to be adjusted, if i'm going to pay 5 bills for a shock, i better be able to adjust them anytime i want.
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