Strange Clutch Petal Issue
10-04-2007, 02:30 PM
#1
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Strange Clutch Petal Issue
I just recently had a new clutch put in, and very oddly, the clutch petal is way to soft. This is a brand to clutch kit, and the petal about as light as my old clutch was WITH air in the line. Once I got it home, I bled the line to make sure that it wasnt just air trapped in the line, and it didnt really help. Now due to time issues, I didnt due the clutch myself so I dont really have any superior insight, but I do know that a have a small leak somewhere in the hydraulic line but the fluid isnt getting any lower and no air is in the line. And the strangest part of it all, the clutch isn't effected AT ALL. It engages and disengages perfect. Any idea's?
10-04-2007, 03:35 PM
#4
Yes, he has a hydraulic clutch, judging by the username he's got a 99 SE-L...I believe my 2nd gen had a hydraulic clutch setup, I can't imagine any manufacturer for passenger cars making cable clutch setups these days.
The different feeling could be air in the lines, a leak (leading to air, most likely), or just the design of the new pressure plate. Bleed the hell out of it and check for leaks, first two things to do. What brand clutch kit?
The different feeling could be air in the lines, a leak (leading to air, most likely), or just the design of the new pressure plate. Bleed the hell out of it and check for leaks, first two things to do. What brand clutch kit?
10-04-2007, 05:16 PM
#5
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Supposedly OEM 5th Gen from what I was told. Purchased in a GD. And also, this S/N is kind of old...I now have a 95 SE, and yes, it is hydraulic. But the question wasn't was it hydraulic or not because I already know it is, but just what could be the cause of the pedal feel. I've bled it pretty good, but I am going to do it again tomorrow, and I am also about to order some SS clutch lines so hopefully, if the problem is indeed a leak, it will be fixed.
10-04-2007, 05:26 PM
#6
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it might have to do with the amount of springs are on your clutch. because my stage 1 had 4 and i didnt like it so now my stage 3 has 6. and that made the pedal tense up alot more. do you remember how many springs there were on your clutch?
10-04-2007, 05:38 PM
#7
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Had 4. Just like a stock one I do believe, but that just comes back to my original question...if this is a 5th gen clutch, or even a stock 4th gen, why is it softer than my 108k stock 4th gen clutch that just came out?
10-04-2007, 05:44 PM
#8
Um, I believe your clutch may have to break it's self in. When I installed my Exedy OE the pedal was SUPER SOFT, way too soft. However it still engaged perfect. The clutch has about 1,500 miles on it, and the pedal is allot stiffer then before. It's stiff enough, and it engages just as fine. Doesn't slip at all.
10-04-2007, 06:12 PM
#9
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^^(exedy OE=5th gen, just clarifying for those that don't know, it's my pet-peeve around here)
Agreed that you should wait until it's broken in to jump to conclusions, HOWEVER, you should fix the leak, and are you aware that there are TWO bleeders!! (I didn't know this for the longest time) Refer to the FSM for the proper bleeding procedure, vq35de.com
And yeah, I dunno what was up with people commenting on hydraulic, from your 1st post you clearly knew this.
Agreed that you should wait until it's broken in to jump to conclusions, HOWEVER, you should fix the leak, and are you aware that there are TWO bleeders!! (I didn't know this for the longest time) Refer to the FSM for the proper bleeding procedure, vq35de.com
And yeah, I dunno what was up with people commenting on hydraulic, from your 1st post you clearly knew this.
10-05-2007, 06:40 AM
#10
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Just in case: http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/803
10-05-2007, 06:59 AM
#11
^^(exedy OE=5th gen, just clarifying for those that don't know, it's my pet-peeve around here)
Agreed that you should wait until it's broken in to jump to conclusions, HOWEVER, you should fix the leak, and are you aware that there are TWO bleeders!! (I didn't know this for the longest time) Refer to the FSM for the proper bleeding procedure, vq35de.com
And yeah, I dunno what was up with people commenting on hydraulic, from your 1st post you clearly knew this.
Agreed that you should wait until it's broken in to jump to conclusions, HOWEVER, you should fix the leak, and are you aware that there are TWO bleeders!! (I didn't know this for the longest time) Refer to the FSM for the proper bleeding procedure, vq35de.com
And yeah, I dunno what was up with people commenting on hydraulic, from your 1st post you clearly knew this.
10-05-2007, 07:01 AM
#12
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I wasn't guessing on wether it's hydraulic or not, either. My uneducated guess is that because it's hydraulic, that is why you are not noticing a difference. The pedal should feel the same either way, you shouldn't feel a difference BECAUSE it's hydraulic. The system does the work, not your leg.
10-05-2007, 07:15 AM
#13
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Actually that's not really true, a cable might be a little stiffer due to extra resistance, but the hydraulic clutch in a maxima has a near 1:1 ratio, any decreased effort is only due to the levarage provided by the fulcrum point of the pedal.
10-05-2007, 08:00 AM
#14
i swear my clutch pedal feel changes on a daily basis. and the engage and dis-engauge point does as well. I have the fulll SS line and have bled it once after installation where it barely improved the variability. I think maybe my slave cylinder is just old and maybe not working properly (it is old, its rusty). But i have an ebay master cylinder which i'm starting to question the quality of as well.
10-05-2007, 10:36 AM
#15
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Are you saying that the fulcrum point on the pedal has changed now, too?
Last edited by BENMAX03; 10-05-2007 at 10:40 AM.
10-05-2007, 12:27 PM
#16
I wrestled with my clutch for months (soft, flabby, wouldn’t pop back up, wouldn’d disengage). I thought I had fixed it several times after installing new parts, bleeding, tightening hoses and so on. If you want trouble free clutch operation, here is my advice (for what it is worth):
1) Remove the second bleeder valve and 3 feet of associated tubing. Purchase a brass fitting and Teflon tape from your local hardware store to plug the hole in the brass block where you removed the second line. I think I used a 3/8" fitting to plug the hole. I also soldered a “BB” in the bottom of the hole before adding the plug but this may not be necessary.
2) Inspect your master cylinder by removing the tubing fitting. Place your thumb over the fitting opening and operate the clutch pedal. You should feel pressure when the clutch is pressed to the floor. You should NOT feel any suction when you pull the clutch out. I had to take the master cylinder out of my car to do this because I was working alone. I had a vacuum when I pulled the piston back out which meant I had identified the problem. Now, I wish I had tried using the Nissan Rebuild Kit ($20 or so) instead of buying a new master ($100).
3) Install single/one piece hose from master to slave cylinder. I paid more for two OEM hoses than what you can probably pay for a single SS hose. Next time, I'll go to the trouble of finding and buying a single hose. This could also bypass the bleeder hose and eliminate #1 above if you choose to do so.
4) Change the slave if you want to. However, it has no check valve. It is a very simple device that is likely to be okay.
1) Remove the second bleeder valve and 3 feet of associated tubing. Purchase a brass fitting and Teflon tape from your local hardware store to plug the hole in the brass block where you removed the second line. I think I used a 3/8" fitting to plug the hole. I also soldered a “BB” in the bottom of the hole before adding the plug but this may not be necessary.
2) Inspect your master cylinder by removing the tubing fitting. Place your thumb over the fitting opening and operate the clutch pedal. You should feel pressure when the clutch is pressed to the floor. You should NOT feel any suction when you pull the clutch out. I had to take the master cylinder out of my car to do this because I was working alone. I had a vacuum when I pulled the piston back out which meant I had identified the problem. Now, I wish I had tried using the Nissan Rebuild Kit ($20 or so) instead of buying a new master ($100).
3) Install single/one piece hose from master to slave cylinder. I paid more for two OEM hoses than what you can probably pay for a single SS hose. Next time, I'll go to the trouble of finding and buying a single hose. This could also bypass the bleeder hose and eliminate #1 above if you choose to do so.
4) Change the slave if you want to. However, it has no check valve. It is a very simple device that is likely to be okay.
10-05-2007, 01:33 PM
#17
Okay so can you explain why whenever I bleed the clutch the pedal stays stuck to the floor after I close the bleeder valve and I have to pull it back up with my hand to continue the bleeding process.
10-05-2007, 05:37 PM
#18
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hahaha, if you're ever in the area feel free to stop by, I'll let you push down on my pedal with a stage 3 clutch and perfectly working hydraulics, just make sure you stretch your calves first, wouldn't want you to pull a muscle
.No, I'm not saying the pedal's fulcrum point has changed, I'm saying that a hydraulic clutch doesn't increase the force vs distance of the pedal, meaning if something on the slave cylinder requires 50psi of force to move, you would have to apply 50psi of force to the master cylinder in order to move it, of course the fulcrum point of the pedal decreases the force required on the master cylinder, but increases the distance the pedal must be moved, confusing I know. So, take the pedal and it's fulcrum point out of the eequation, if your pressure plate requires more force in order to move.... than the force on the master cylinder must increase as well, so basically, a stiffer pressure plate WILL make your clutch harder to push, and a weaker one will do the same, just trust me on this one. And let the clutch break in and don't worry about it if it engages as low as possible consistently and doesn't slip, the 5th gen clutch is like butter.
Last edited by KRRZ350; 10-05-2007 at 05:41 PM.
10-06-2007, 12:38 PM
#19
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Posts: 79
hahaha, if you're ever in the area feel free to stop by, I'll let you push down on my pedal with a stage 3 clutch and perfectly working hydraulics, just make sure you stretch your calves first, wouldn't want you to pull a muscle .
No, I'm not saying the pedal's fulcrum point has changed, I'm saying that a hydraulic clutch doesn't increase the force vs distance of the pedal, meaning if something on the slave cylinder requires 50psi of force to move, you would have to apply 50psi of force to the master cylinder in order to move it, of course the fulcrum point of the pedal decreases the force required on the master cylinder, but increases the distance the pedal must be moved, confusing I know. So, take the pedal and it's fulcrum point out of the eequation, if your pressure plate requires more force in order to move.... than the force on the master cylinder must increase as well, so basically, a stiffer pressure plate WILL make your clutch harder to push, and a weaker one will do the same, just trust me on this one. And let the clutch break in and don't worry about it if it engages as low as possible consistently and doesn't slip, the 5th gen clutch is like butter.
.No, I'm not saying the pedal's fulcrum point has changed, I'm saying that a hydraulic clutch doesn't increase the force vs distance of the pedal, meaning if something on the slave cylinder requires 50psi of force to move, you would have to apply 50psi of force to the master cylinder in order to move it, of course the fulcrum point of the pedal decreases the force required on the master cylinder, but increases the distance the pedal must be moved, confusing I know. So, take the pedal and it's fulcrum point out of the eequation, if your pressure plate requires more force in order to move.... than the force on the master cylinder must increase as well, so basically, a stiffer pressure plate WILL make your clutch harder to push, and a weaker one will do the same, just trust me on this one. And let the clutch break in and don't worry about it if it engages as low as possible consistently and doesn't slip, the 5th gen clutch is like butter.
10-07-2007, 09:25 PM
#20
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 64
hahaha, if you're ever in the area feel free to stop by, I'll let you push down on my pedal with a stage 3 clutch and perfectly working hydraulics, just make sure you stretch your calves first, wouldn't want you to pull a muscle .
No, I'm not saying the pedal's fulcrum point has changed, I'm saying that a hydraulic clutch doesn't increase the force vs distance of the pedal, meaning if something on the slave cylinder requires 50psi of force to move, you would have to apply 50psi of force to the master cylinder in order to move it, of course the fulcrum point of the pedal decreases the force required on the master cylinder, but increases the distance the pedal must be moved, confusing I know. So, take the pedal and it's fulcrum point out of the eequation, if your pressure plate requires more force in order to move.... than the force on the master cylinder must increase as well, so basically, a stiffer pressure plate WILL make your clutch harder to push, and a weaker one will do the same, just trust me on this one. And let the clutch break in and don't worry about it if it engages as low as possible consistently and doesn't slip, the 5th gen clutch is like butter.
.No, I'm not saying the pedal's fulcrum point has changed, I'm saying that a hydraulic clutch doesn't increase the force vs distance of the pedal, meaning if something on the slave cylinder requires 50psi of force to move, you would have to apply 50psi of force to the master cylinder in order to move it, of course the fulcrum point of the pedal decreases the force required on the master cylinder, but increases the distance the pedal must be moved, confusing I know. So, take the pedal and it's fulcrum point out of the eequation, if your pressure plate requires more force in order to move.... than the force on the master cylinder must increase as well, so basically, a stiffer pressure plate WILL make your clutch harder to push, and a weaker one will do the same, just trust me on this one. And let the clutch break in and don't worry about it if it engages as low as possible consistently and doesn't slip, the 5th gen clutch is like butter.
Last edited by 2muchbass; 10-07-2007 at 09:26 PM. Reason: spelling error
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